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  1. #21
    Player Mirage's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,980
    I agree, Gungnir could use some help. There's no reason why its AM should be as bad as it is. Either the defensive buff from the AM should be a lot stronger, or it should just get an offensive AM instead.
    (1)

  2. #22
    Player Kirana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    53
    Character
    Kirana
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    100% agree with OP. The same can be said for Kikoku and the mage relics.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player Sapphires's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    130
    Character
    Sapphire
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Hey don't forget about the Nin mythic Nagi, probably the worst weapon of the bunch and weakest weaponskill ever.
    (1)

  4. #24
    Player Rezeak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    626
    Character
    Rezeak
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    I'm gonna disagree with the OP, I feel Gungnir is a great weapon and overall it's the job that wields it that lets it down.

    Let compare Ragnarok vs Gungnir

    Relic WS --- > Aftermath

    On both WSes you will lose ALOT DMG if you use the Relic WS and honestly Geirskogul is as strong as most relic WS (mods are all crap anyway). (This is an issue on almost all but like 3 relics so I dunno why ur so surprised)
    Alot of aftermaths are better still doesn't change the fact on most relics you don't use the relic WS ever.

    Additional effects

    The def down effect in an Ally, will add more dmg that any other additional effect it's only issue/s is it doesn't stack with angon (it would be overpowered) and it does mean only 1 DRG per ally to gain the most benefit. (there are weaker relic effects out there).

    Either way

    Gungnir is not as bad as you making it sound, it really is no different from Ragnarok stat/use wise but the reason it is worth alot less is the job balance in the game atm. So really i'd say SE shouldn't bother with fixing gungnir until DRG is balanced with other jobs (and relic fixes are a bad way to do that).

    As a side note, Great axe, Staff, Sword, Bow relics and maybe some others have more problems than Gungnir in my opinion.
    (1)
    Last edited by Rezeak; 11-28-2012 at 07:32 AM.
    Main : 99 DRK
    Subs : 99 SMN COR SCH MELEEWHM
    Server : Ragnarök
    Relics : 95 Ragnarok and 95 Apoc
    Ironic that when i was young i never had enough video games but now i have too many and not enough time to play them .

  5. #25
    Player Kysaiana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    128
    Character
    Kysaiana
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rezeak View Post
    ALOT
    After reading that, all I could think about was this.

    Anyway the issue with Gungnir's add: effect isn't that it doesn't stack with Angon, it's that it's weaker than Angon and it overwrites Angon. Essentially making that merit useless if you have a Gungnir.

    I don't disagree that a lot of other relics also have crappy WS/ WS mods even with the % boost by 99. Or that many other relics also have really useless Aftermaths (katana, H2H, Staff, etc.)

    I think all of the relics with similar issues should be addressed. Long ago, when abyssea was still in its salad days, SE mentioned that all weapon skills were going to go through a revamp. I wonder if that's still going to happen some day, or if it was just something to make people shut up about ws procs in abyssea for a while.
    (5)

  6. #26
    Player SNK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    438
    Character
    Snk
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rezeak View Post
    I'm gonna disagree with the OP, I feel Gungnir is a great weapon and overall it's the job that wields it that lets it down.

    Let compare Ragnarok vs Gungnir

    Relic WS --- > Aftermath

    On both WSes you will lose ALOT DMG if you use the Relic WS and honestly Geirskogul is as strong as most relic WS (mods are all crap anyway). (This is an issue on almost all but like 3 relics so I dunno why ur so surprised)
    Alot of aftermaths are better still doesn't change the fact on most relics you don't use the relic WS ever.

    Additional effects

    The def down effect in an Ally, will add more dmg that any other additional effect it's only issue/s is it doesn't stack with angon (it would be overpowered) and it does mean only 1 DRG per ally to gain the most benefit. (there are weaker relic effects out there).

    Either way

    Gungnir is not as bad as you making it sound, it really is no different from Ragnarok stat/use wise but the reason it is worth alot less is the job balance in the game atm. So really i'd say SE shouldn't bother with fixing gungnir until DRG is balanced with other jobs (and relic fixes are a bad way to do that).

    As a side note, Great axe, Staff, Sword, Bow relics and maybe some others have more problems than Gungnir in my opinion.
    Sorry but you're really dead wrong. Comparing a Ragnarok to a Gungnir is stupid because there isn't any. There's a reason why so many damn great swords started appearing across all servers. Resolution. It went from being a very good weapon to a stupidly powerful weapon overnight.

    Gungnir is just... lol The Aftermath is worthless and overall you shouldn't have to suffer it if you spent so much time building that weapon.
    (3)

  7. #27
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    131
    Correct.
    • The weaponskill is worthless
    • The aftermath is worthless
    • The additional effect burdens Angon
    • and the occasionally deals double & 2.5x damage isn't even enough for it to be in the same league with Ryunohige's OATwice/Thrice

    That said, the DRG job itself doesn't have the necessary tools to make use of such a weapon like how a DRK, SAM or WAR can wield their respective weapons.

    Rhongomiant suffers similarly with one of the most terrible Empyrian weaponskills ever conceived. You would be lucky if you can pass 1200 damage with Camlann's Torment, even on Lv.75 fodder.
    (4)
    Last edited by Tanama; 11-29-2012 at 07:30 AM.

  8. #28
    Player Rezeak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    626
    Character
    Rezeak
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by SNK View Post
    Sorry but you're really dead wrong. Comparing a Ragnarok to a Gungnir is stupid because there isn't any. There's a reason why so many damn great swords started appearing across all servers. Resolution. It went from being a very good weapon to a stupidly powerful weapon overnight.

    Gungnir is just... lol The Aftermath is worthless and overall you shouldn't have to suffer it if you spent so much time building that weapon.
    Yes, my point resolution is what makes Ragnarok an insane weapon not the aftermath, not the crit bonus nor the aftermath but because DRK as a job is powerful.

    If you swapped Ragnarok's stats with Gungnir then it would be a stronger weapon.

    Btw Rags WS and Aftermath are both useless. Yes, Crit + after math is nice but not if it costs 50% + of your WS DMG to keep up.

    The point i'm making is that, maybe the issue is more to do with DRG and the way angon works than it is to do with the relic and mayyybe it might be better for the dev team to rebalance DRG than try to rebalance gear that it could equip.

    Then you have other relics like Excalibur which SE told PLDs you can't have additional effect proc while enlight is up meaning it would actually lose a PLD dmg and 30-50 acc just to use there additional effect meaning all excalibur is, is a +attack ODD sword.
    (1)
    Main : 99 DRK
    Subs : 99 SMN COR SCH MELEEWHM
    Server : Ragnarök
    Relics : 95 Ragnarok and 95 Apoc
    Ironic that when i was young i never had enough video games but now i have too many and not enough time to play them .

  9. #29
    Player SNK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    438
    Character
    Snk
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rezeak View Post
    Yes, my point resolution is what makes Ragnarok an insane weapon not the aftermath, not the crit bonus nor the aftermath but because DRK as a job is powerful.
    Honestly people scoffed at DRK being a DD until Resolution came out. It was pretty terrible that a job built for damage couldn't keep up vs an Ukon WAR or a Masa SAM.

    Then Resolution changed the game and now it's a top teir DD like it should have been in the 1st place.
    (1)

  10. #30
    Player Rekin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by SNK View Post
    Honestly people scoffed at DRK being a DD until Resolution came out. It was pretty terrible that a job built for damage couldn't keep up vs an Ukon WAR or a Masa SAM.

    Then Resolution changed the game and now it's a top teir DD like it should have been in the 1st place.
    While I still don't agree with Rezeak about Gungnir I understand his point. Dragoon itself is an underpowered job. As a 2hander its damage falls far behind other 2hander DDs. If the job's point was to fill in a niche it isn't doing a good job if the vanadiel consensus means anything.
    (3)
    It doesn't take much to know when someone is special. After 5 minutes if the person is alive and well you have a keeper, if they are dead and obnoxious then toss em like two day old leftovers.

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