The Problem with Red Mage . . .

[Ophannus]

To an extent, RDM's DD potential is still good compared to other mages. I think that's where SE is content with leaving RDM for damage dealing.

Mage melee hierarchy
BLU(Thaumas, A- skill, native DW3 and Triple Attack,self haste,Almace)
RDM(Almace,20% DA from Temper,self haste, enspells,gain-str, dia III)
BRD(Twashtar/Mandau, Hecatomb gear,evisceration/exenterator,augmented sky gear,marches,)
WHM(Mjollnir, decent haste gear,auspice,hexa strike,boost-str, dia II)
BLM(Only putting them above SCH and SMN cuz they can use daggers and evisceration)
SMN(Avatar Favors can give good melee bonuses, Shattersoul is great)
SCH(Self SC with their spells, Firestorm, Shattersoul)

So when it comes to mages, RDM is one of the best meleers, it's just that when you compare us to dedicated melees, we're terrible, which makes sense cuz we can also cure, debuff and nuke whereas melees specialize in melee.

Actually BRD could potentially out damage RDM in pure melee just because of gear selection(They can evisceration/exenterator with hecatomb/genbu/seiryu gear and gets plenty of other haste gear and DW from Kirin's Osode) and give themselves close to capped magic haste too.

[ManaKing]

Wow you guys are still on this and you a beating a guy up for 2 pages because he makes the point 'that just because BLU has something doesn't mean that RDM should have it too'.

Well guess what, he's right. BLU isn't RDM, nor does it play like RDM. Duh. You guys even said that. You're comparing apples to oranges and saying that because oranges prevent scurvy, so should apples. Well too bad, they don't. If you want RDM to play like BLU, gear like BLU, or get favored like BLU, THEN TOO BAD. IT'S NOT BLU. IT'S RDM.

BLU has an awesome bag of tricks that is pretty consistently described as over powered for a 1 Hander. It is significantly stronger than almost every other 1 Hander. RDM is pretty well balanced for a 1 Hander. 1 Handers are in a bad spot as a generalization. That is the problem. If they ever buff 1 Handers, they will have to nerf BLU.

RDM has a bag of tricks too. But instead of enjoying the more recent improvements over gear for WS and TP, you point at BLU and get jealous. STOP IT. It's sad and makes you looks foolish. RDM has spells to enhance it's potential. If you want RDM to be better and actually be a RDM then it needs more enhancing magic. I'm much happier to have Temper than BLU gear. You don't hear BLU talking about not having Temper or an Excalibur. And if you do, then they are idiots, because those are aren't their toys.

Lusting for gear, when gear can change all the time is foolish. Temper is here to stay. Gains are here to stay. BLU gets some new spells constantly and gear. Have fun changing things out all the time and not being able to use all of your spells. No thanks, that's not my character and I have no interest in playing that job.

You can TP in almost 50% double attack. Almost no one else can do that. WARs aren't crying that they don't get temper, because it wouldn't make any sense for them to have magic. Appreciate what you have. Diversity. If you want to be a damage specialist, don't play the generalist.

I'm still of the opinion that our Melee is fine for a 1 Hander. 1 Hander damage isn't ok, but that is a different subject. Our gear is good, not the best, because we aren't the best and our gear is the reason we aren't. It makes sense. Our Sore Spot is our lack of new magic, nuking potency, and job traits/abilities. If you want to tell me that we should get new gear that adds a small amount of triple attack to Temper, then I'm all for it. But crying over a Thaumas Coat is not something I'll shed tears for. Please compare RDM at 85~90 VS lvl 99. Appreciate it.

[CapriciousOne]

[QUOTE=Nawesemo;358010]O.o who's trolling who here? I said what I said and you poke at me and not the fact that rdm can do just fine in the dd factory, and slap on the blinders and keep on insisting you got Skrewed..... Whatever, the good Rdms know what they can do given their limits and im sure your one of em, but what you want is about as silly as wars being upset they have no native haste.... And them eloquently asking for it and getting very defensive when they're told, that's a goofy idea. When do i get my l33T ONLY Pass I wanna be irrational and tell people to go away too.... ; ;[/QUOTE]

LMFAO personally I am lost and dont follow anythng he saying to be honest. I think he talking to or about me but I dont see how anything he is saying appliles to anything I said nor do I really care to be honest. All jobs have limitations and the choice of subjobs can improve upon those limitations to some degree. Personally blue mage has somethings I like that I think can benefit RDM weaknesses from my standpoint one being the defense that gear gives kind of sucks even with protect V. Sure I can always level and go PLD if I really want to but then I would lose some of the abilities of RDM like tier I enspells since I dual wield alot and tend to use the element the mob is typically weak to (enaero against Anticans for instance). I personally think that it would cool to use the combo of Protect V/Phalanx I or II/Cocoon/Fish Mithkabobs but there are other combos as well. If I want to play blue I will level blu to 99 since i'm about halfway there anyway with 41blu atm anyway and intend to 99 that as well.

I know it may be hard for somebody of your limited intelligence to understand but a basic rdm is pretty decent overall even with out subjobs in comparison to most other jobs but RDM to me has far more flexibility as a base job than most others despite it never really has been the best at anything and really wasnt meant to be beyond enfeebling and enhancing yet and still is more than competent and capable to stand in and support the specialist if they should ever fall in battle until they are back on their feet again. In any case I plan on bringing PLD/BLU/RDM all to 99 at some point so i can mix it up a bit and maybe even go RDM/PLD so i can make use of the lower tier Defense Bonus traits of Paladin which would be useful in certain situations where I needed to solo battlefields with multiple mobs that werent particularly strong as far as attack and didnt feel were threatening enough to warrant /blm with sleepga or were dark based mobs that were very resistant to sleep. Again people of your level intelligence probably dont know anything about that kind of stuff to worry about it anyway.

[Scuro]

The problem with RDM.... is that they want to be DD's, when they should be back line, and because there are so many trying to push it, no original good ideas are coming out to secure its future as a USEFUL job. So in short, if your looking for the problem, its 95% of the posters in the RDM forums.

[SNK]

To me RDM is just a dead job. What with the stuff that's out there now, RDM is pretty much forever in a niche box.

[Afania]

It's not that I don't like to play RDM, its more a case of why do I need to. Every other job can do what RDM can do better than RDM can. Enfeebling? whm, sch and blm can do just as good as RDM.

I already said Phalanx 2 was a waste of merits, bio III is ok if u wanna spend a week dot kiting something. Dia III is good in zergs but who invites a RDM to a zerg fest? slow 2 is good yes, if the mob isn't immune to it. Gain spells...self target spells as I said.

I found RDM pretty good for legion, you can dia 3 every NM, and CS stun sandworm/wave 2 ironclad in Mul(which makes both NM A LOT less annoying to deal with). As long as NM isn't immune to stun, CS stun works as extra PD, except RDM can also offer dia 3 and better cure+refresh2 than another SMN. If 2hr not up, RDM can also toss extra stun for TP move. 4 SMN 1 RDM brings more advantage to the ally than 5 SMN 0 RDM, and you still get safe protection on 5 NMs total.

I know some group actually take RDM to legion over WHM. IMO, going to solo/melee route is just a waste when we have enough solo/melee jobs, they should make more event like legion, where you need stun/heal/refresh/dia and everything.

[tyrantsyn]

Block them and save the hassle. Evidentally they don't know what a troll is, or are just playing (I hope, they're playing) dumb.

Also Report him for going off topic, it's against the rules after all, let the mods deal with him.

On topic:

I genuinely hope the new guy takes a good hard look at RDM like the majority of people both on the English and Japanese forums asked, instead of just looking at what they gave RDM and "thinking (incorrectly)" it's over-powered rather than the truth.

Was the first thing I did actually.

Wow you guys are still on this and you a beating a guy up for 2 pages because he makes the point 'that just because BLU has something doesn't mean that RDM should have it too'.

If the guy is passionate about what he had to say, he could have worded it better. Starting anything with /facepalm is just bad idea, especially in the RDM thread's. A lot off ppl here feel ignore and neglected and don't need that. You and I both know even if his point is valid there's better way's of expressing it than how he did. Normally I leave these kind of thing's alone. This time tho I just felt like I needed to speak up.

[ManaKing]

If the guy is passionate about what he had to say, he could have worded it better. Starting anything with /facepalm is just bad idea, especially in the RDM thread's. A lot off ppl here feel ignore and neglected and don't need that. You and I both know even if his point is valid there's better way's of expressing it than how he did. Normally I leave these kind of thing's alone. This time tho I just felt like I needed to speak up.

Ok you win that one. Valid point and thumbs up.

I'm still on RDM 80% of the time, I still melee most of the time, and I take it to end game events that apparently we never get invites to. RDM has problems, but they aren't as cheap as some of the arguments that have been brought up here. Complaining about melee gear is a misdirection from the actual issues and I want everyone to know that.

[tyrantsyn]

My RDM is in moth ball's, I still love the job keep up on the gear and have fond memories of it. But abyssea kind of kill it for me. Which lead me to making a Ukon and switching over to WAR almost full time.

I see your point on melee and unlike the other guy you give a much better explanation about your thought's on the situation. And while I agree that when it come's to melee vs the bigger picture on RDM, there are more important thing's to get fix. But that's not what this thread is about. We have other thread's dedicated to those problem's and most here are as passionate about those issue's as they are about getting RDM on more melee gear. Misdirection? nah, it's just another aspect of the job ppl want attention too.

[ManaKing]

My point is we don't need to be BLU to be good. We can be RDM and be good and the gear issue isn't really an issue so long as they keep putting out gear that we can actually use.

This game isn't fair, but that's not a reason to believe you deserve something just because someone else gets it. You deserve it because it makes sense and makes your job actually better. A Thaumus Coat is cool and all, but I would rather get something that is actually tailored to RDM rather than any DD in the game.

I'd rather see a Haste body that increases Enspell damage or adds Affinity, which by association would increase enspell damage. How about an affect that makes Double Attacks increase Enspell damage significantly? How about Enpsells Augmenting Attack and Accuracy by the amount of damage your enspells are doing.

RDM doesn't need to steal BLU's thunder, it needs it's own thunder.