The Problem with Red Mage . . .

[CapriciousOne]

I disagree, I don't think we should get all that much in trait format, the only thing I'd say was my previous suggestion of a type of dual wield. Spells that grant the traits at a more potent version suit the job (IMO) far more than traits would.

well over all in the quest to 99 i think all jobs should have what could be considered staples of the jobs as traits every 5 levels or so upto say at least a third tier. Essentially that would make the main job have like 6 tier 3 traits and maybe 3 tier 2 traits from subs.

For me if I built RDM it would look more like "Enhancing Magic Duration"(I know composure does this to some degree but some spells are excluded), "Enhancing Magic Potency"(for en/barspells), "Enfeebling magic evasion/Resistance"(instead of individual resists) as primary traits. These primary traits would cover like 4 tiers ever every 5 levels so about 60/99 levels that exists. Secondary traits like "Dual Wield", "Double attack", "Conserve MP" would cover 2 tiers every 5 levels to round out the other 30 levels. There could even be one final end all be all trait like RDM Mastery that doubles the effect of all those traits but SE will never be that generous and if they are they would give it those new jobs, but I would do most jobs with that same concept.

BLM would have Elemental Attack/Defense traits, BRD the same for songs, DNC the same for Steps/Sambas/Waltzes without meritting. I didnt list stuff liek "Fast Cast" because honestly I thing SE was dumb for even making a separate trait for that in the first place. Now that I even think about it the same could be said about "Conserve MP". I only say that because I look at it from the perspective that the more you learn about something the better you get it at it, even if the maximum potential to learn it is limited by IQ or whatever. With that said it is plausible that the better your skill at enfeebling the more successful you are at landing enfeebles(Accuracy) and the faster you are able to do the job (speed) and the less effort is required to do so (Cost) but to be fair I am spoiled by Bethesda Softworks a little.(ok a lot).

[CapriciousOne]

i like /NIN and /DNC both. /NIN seems expensive at first, but then you realize that you can seal farm with it and utsu 1+2 makes you a really strong solo. NIN elemental debuffs are also very potent and require no actual skill to profit from. If you are trying to land enfeebles in VW, they go a long way to doing it in 1 or 2 casts instead of the 4 or 5 everyone else has to do. Also, you can proc with them.

/DNC has it's own little bag of tricks, but the thing that kills me about it is that they essentially cut off the toys a couple levels too early. Chocobo Jig and Building Flourish would have made /DNC almost as good as /NIN.

Yea I havent really been focusing much on event type stuff like VW because of all the skilling up and magian trials I been trying to get done plus I dont always play well with others, lol. I do think I agree with you about nin getting cheaper later on as far as tool expenditures as skill increases and i like the elemental wheel effect of how one builds off the others but my nin is still only like level 41 atm but I will get back to it as overall I do plan to get all my jobs to 99 but i'm in no rush to do so and I'm primarily focused on RDM, THF, and DNC so far and maybe BLU soon afterward but NIN will probably be right behind it if not before it.

[CapriciousOne]

The problem I have with adding to RDM solely through spells is the addition of yet more spells to cycle, whether for ourselves or for the party. Even with Composure, one would start to feel the burden if successive spells were to be added compensating for this, that, and the other trait.

It might be fine if the spells had durations similar to Protect or Shell, but those two seem to be exceptions rather than rules.

Yea that was always my concern too even back when i was 55RDM because I hated cycling all those spells for the crew when truthfully a WHM was better suited to doing it for everybody in one fell swoop. I much rather have them do it and do what I can to support/protect them from all the hate then be the one to do it myself. In any case between cycling between those spells for myself and the party it might would've been helpful if Refresh 1 and Refresh 2 spells stacked together so I can get the my back faster to keep up more reliably without converting, risking me dying and screwing the pooch so to speak for the party.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Isn't Brave essentially what Embrava is?

Sort of, but it'd be a self-target buff. Embrava came from people calling for Brave for RDM, like a lot of stuff for other jobs actually.

Main difference is my version of Brave is Attack+ Accuracy+ and Regen+ other than Regen it shares nothing else with Embrava.

[Slvr_Stryker]

[[ comes in as BLU to crash the party ]] Hay gaiz, I herd dis waz teh complant fiel 4 BLU? 8D

But no, in all seriousness...I think a lot of it has to do with the player base as well. Yeah, SE isn't exactly throwing you any favors one way or the other, but the general consensus (one that I share) is the whole "jack of all trades" ideal, where they may not be the best at everything, but they're at least proficient enough in all of the things to matter enough in the long run. It also doesn't help that, for the longest time in this game, people forgot about the specialists that were WHM and BLM in a few key events, like exp or Dynamis. Sure, in the latter's case, you would still see both of them, but in the former's case, around the time when Colibri parties came along, both of those jobs virtually became obsolete. RDM could support the party for a much longer time than any WHM could, and it's not like you could effectively cast magic on Colibri without them casting it right back at you. Even in endgame events like sky, ground kings, Dynamis, anything...the thought of not going without a RDM or two was virtually unheard of. RDMs had a *lot* of fame back before the level caps rose...and then it suddenly it vanished when the levels rose past 75. All of what involved breaking past 75 meant that other mage jobs became more relevant again, leaving RDM, that "jack of all trades" in the dust. I will very freely admit, and this is very bold and highly rude of me, that I personally view all of the complaints about "Oh, RDM should get this!" "Oh, RDM should get that!" "Hey, why didn't RDM get this, this was designed for us and is better suited for us!" as...well...as incessant whining and moaning about how every single career RDM misses their glory days and wants to get them back. And I'm fairly sure that a lot of players in this game that we play probably have the same views I do.

However, this is to say that I don't feel that RDM needs something new and refreshing. I know, taking RDM up to only 49 means I missed half of what makes RDM great (I leveled it as a sub for my BLU, go figure), but knowing a few RDMs personally does at least help me realize the fact that RDM does indeed need *something* to make itself relevant in this game once again, and reading through this thread helps me consider a few things.

For the Melee side of RDM...let's face it, RDMs probably aren't going to compare to, say, WAR or DRK nowadays, but I think it is fairly safe to say that the melee side does need a boost. Maybe some RDM-exclusive gear that helps give them extra physical power, and I'm sure that WARs wouldn't even miss Sanguine Blade if it was taken off of them and slapped onto RDM. As far as Daniel_Hatcher's idea of Brave...I like it...except for the Regen+ ideal. You do have to keep in mind that if you were given something, it would likely be used alongside Composure, which means a really long duration and potency for all three of those stats, which is something that not even BLU gets. I know, I know, "but BLU gets all these unique buffs and spells that we don't get", I get it. But here's the thing: as I've stated elsewhere, BLUs are not as flexible as you RDMs. We have to plan and map out in advance what we need to use the most to boost our effectiveness, where as you guys can swap in and out as you please with no penalty or wait time. Not to mention that we generally have no real way of boosting all of our most interesting buffs in both length and duration; they're all static timers, and we don't have a Composure ability.

On the magic side...well, again, I've already said something very vocal about that: Dualcast. The simple fact is, if it was actually possible to code in the way I envision it, it would do a number of things for the job's magic side. It would help boost numbers in nuking damage, it would create the ability to give out stronger cures, and it would single-handedly help step enfeebling, which in this game is a RDM's top skill, back into the spotlight once more. As far as AoEing spells...I don't really think that's the case here. Maybe instead of limiting to self-target, like how Temper is, limiting it to only single-target, but still restricting it from being Accession'd or spread out in any way, shape, or form. If you look at a lot of what RDM has, aside from Diaga, it really has virtually 0 spread-target spells. Everything they have is single-target only, and I highly think it should stay that way. Ties in to the whole "specialist would be better off, but this works in a pinch" ideal that RDMs generally persist in having.

[Kristal]

Warmage Armor set for RDM 99
* Magic Attack Bonus -100
* Unable to cast Elemental Magic Skill
* Sword Skill +100
* Enspell : Melee attacks occasionally deal elemental damage
* Enspell : Elemental Damage Bonus +100%
* Enspell II : additional elemental damage on non-main hits
* Accuracy +75
* Attack +75
* Haste +25% (gear cap)
* STR +50
* DEX +50
* MND +50
* Set: Regain +2~5
* Set: Damage Taken -50%
* Sphere: Regain +2~5

Ok, stats are a bit crazy, but the idea is that the Warmage set focusses on melee, in particular the RDM specific enspells, and boosts it considerably while penalizing nuking.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

[[ comes in as BLU to crash the party ]]As far as Daniel_Hatcher's idea of Brave...I like it...except for the Regen+ ideal.

The thing is even with Composure and Regen II stacking it's not really anything special and it no way detracts from SCH's Regen.

Regen II + Brave = 24 Regen /tic
SCH Regen II = 36 Regen /tic

Originally I decided on Haste being added to Brave and Fast Cast to Faith, but I could see SE saying no due to being OP, so settled on recovery forms of the stat damaged. Regen = Brave - Refresh = Faith.

[Ophannus]

I found it lame that they made SCH into the DoT damage and DoT heal king. I figured let SCH be a BLM and WHM at once, that's their kick. But I always felt that RDM should have gotten the Regen/Refresh/Adoloquiem/Helix/Embrava/Kaustra not the SCH. The mistake SE made was giving high level enfeebling to BLM WHM and DRK. Every enfeebling spell after level 50 should have been RDM only. The only unique enfeebles RDMs have are our merit enfeebles. No other mage has only their merit spells as their unique main spells. BLM's moved past AM2 with Tier5 nukes and ajas. WHMs use protectra/shellra5 but they dont need to cuz they have the single target. RDM is nothing without its merit spells which are level 75. Level 99 RDM still holding on to their precious level 75 spells when WHM and BLM have new cures, new regens, new nukes and new enhancing spells to play with.

>>>Turn rdm merit spells into scrolls and then just make RDM's tier2 merits into traits that enhance those spell lines.
Bio Mastery
Dia Mastery
Paralyze Mastery
Phalanx Mastery
etc...

[Economizer]

WHMs use protectra/shellra5 but they dont need to cuz they have the single target.

lolwut?

I'm all for fixing the Red Mage merits in the manner you describe and then some but let's not speak mistruths when doing so. Protectra might still be a bit of a joke but there is a reason we call White Mages without 5/5 Shellra gimp.

[Tamarsamar]

I know, I know, "but BLU gets all these unique buffs and spells that we don't get", I get it.

For the most part, you are mistaken. It's not your buffs or spells that we don't get that we're complaining about; it's your insane gear availability over us.

(Also, I remember you from the old HSSS podcast; I enjoyed your narrative!)