The Problem with Red Mage . . .

[saevel]

Cure casting time cape is nice because we can cap potency without using a main or offhand now.

I'm not really sure how I feel about that hairpin. 6% haste with some stats seems okish, but it's still in the catagory with the zelus Tiara for me. You better have a really good reason to give up the stats you can get on your head for stats otherwise, because you can cap Haste without it.

Not without giving up some really nice stats in other slots. The reason RDM's tend to use Z.Tiara is that it's 8% haste in a single slot that doesn't have any super awesome options. Putting that there means you only need to get 17~18% in other slots, most notable legs, body and feet. Only other head options are Brego Helm and Khthonios Mask, neither of which is particularly that good when compared to feet / legs / body.

The stats on any particular slot doesn't matter, it's the total stats of the build that are important. Also I've been trying to nail a capped haste + 15 Store TP set. At 30% DW and 454 Delay using CDC, you need 15 sTP to hit 100 in 16 hits or 8 attack rounds.

[CapriciousOne]

This is not true, I know many groups bring RDM over WHM to legion(although I still bring both RDM and WHM to legion) due to RDM offering other aspect WHM doesn't have(CS stun/dia3/refresh2). Although SCH is not skippable due to more stuns and embrava.

BLU's versatility shines in lowman, where RDM shines in legion when versatile mage are needed in an ally and everything is zerged, and rely on cure/stun/def down heavily. Which job has the ability like RDM, that can CS stun when needed, assist cure/stun, refresh2 others, and dia3 everything.

In a standard legion ally setup, (assuming you still keep a WHM to cure instead of RDM)

DDx5 COR SCH x3 BRD PLD THF WHM SMN x4 RDM x1

P.S, some group use 6 SMN, 0 WHM, 1 RDM and 2 SCH instead.

You get 4 PD 1 CS so good protection on 5 NM total. You got dia3+refresh2 and 2 person curing DDs, plus 4 stunners total.
Change that RDM to SMN, you still get protection on 5 NM, but your dia3 down grade to dia2, no refresh 2 for WHM, 3 stunner instead of 4, and only 1 healer in ally(SCH need to focus on stun).

Change RDM to BLU, you get worse stun/def down, and can't cure outside of pt, you can't output melee dmg without PD also.
And BLM isn't used in legion except Hall of An.

Change RDM to 4th SCH, you still don't have dia3/refresh2, and no CS stun either.

Change RDM to 2nd COR or BRD, any 2nd+ COR or BRD doesn't offer much more after 1st unless you need extra reset chance. BRD can sing 3~4 songs and any song after 4th doesn't add much. Doing 4 COR rolls doesn't add a lot more dmg(After chaos/DA roll the only roll left is hunters/regain, which adds very little dmg if acc capped) to melees but it takes 2 more min to do 2 more rolls. As for reset, many groups don't rely on COR reset anymore either.

RDM can also do Impact(which is needed in Mul), although other mages can also cast it, they're often busy with their own task and RDM is the best role to do it. You also need ES for it on some NM, and RDM is the best one to do it since they're subbing BLM already.

Is it possible to "beat" legion with 0 RDM? Probably yes, but it's also possible to beat it with 0 SMN, or MNK x5 instead of Rag DD, or no SCH/BRD/COR at all. Not to mention I tend to use RDM roll in Mul on SCH since Mul mobs resists stun easily, and having RDM in pt helps.


The fact is, having a RDM in legion ally, brings much more to the table than no RDM. Change that RDM to any other job, it doesn't offer much more than having an RDM in ally. It just doesn't.

So there is your RDM's own thunder and room for jack of all trade mage. It's a versatile "mage" that shines in event like legion. Like how BLU is versatile "1h melee" that shines in lowman against EP/DC mobs. They're different, works differently, and shines in different area. You bring BLU to dyna/salvage/nyzul/Abby/old HNM and so on, when you only have 2~3 ppl in pt, and BLU can cover multiple roles when pt size so small. I don't understand why everyone is jealous(?) of BLU, when BLU can't even get into legion ally.

RDM doesn't need more melee ability, it should stay as a mage with unique aspect that you'd need in event such as legion. RDM also covers multiple aspect in ally, stun/cure/CS/dia3/refresh2/impact, and other debuff when PD is down, which works very well in legion. Not to mention 2nd wave ironclad in Mul and 1st wave sandworm in Muru is total dick to deal with without CS.

Well I haven't yet gotten around to legion but from reading this post, as well as others, I take most people arent doing Legion and dont care much about it as you apparently do. I also must admit that RDM does seem quite useful in this event as per your description. My only issue is the bolded line where everyone keeps trying pigeon hole RDM as a mage only/ predominately mage job. I wont claim to be a rpg enthusiast of any sorts because these game can be rather boring and monotonous to get most things done, however I've seen/played enough rpg to know that mages arent seen wielding bladed weapons of any sort very often. In any case they are it is typically something light and low damage like a knife/dagger because mages arent typically seen as strong enough to wield much else. In addition though redmage is capable of equipping a staff like a traditional mage. I respect you like the mage aspect of rdm as i admit is handy but can you please stop pigeon-holing it and respect that not everybody always enjoys the mage aspects as much as you do. Thank you for your understanding in advance.

[Demon6324236]

Also I've been trying to nail a capped haste + 15 Store TP set. At 30% DW and 454 Delay using CDC, you need 15 sTP to hit 100 in 16 hits or 8 attack rounds.

This set work?

[ManaKing]

Not without giving up some really nice stats in other slots. The reason RDM's tend to use Z.Tiara is that it's 8% haste in a single slot that doesn't have any super awesome options. Putting that there means you only need to get 17~18% in other slots, most notable legs, body and feet. Only other head options are Brego Helm and Khthonios Mask, neither of which is particularly that good when compared to feet / legs / body.

The stats on any particular slot doesn't matter, it's the total stats of the build that are important. Also I've been trying to nail a capped haste + 15 Store TP set. At 30% DW and 454 Delay using CDC, you need 15 sTP to hit 100 in 16 hits or 8 attack rounds.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/272885

That's a little sloppy, but you have room to work with it. The feet you can change for Eurus and still have your TP goal. Phos Belt and +1 do exist, but you don't need them unless you want to use a body without haste.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/267751

Problem is, you are still looking at the Kudzu Aketon as an option for TPing in. The only way you work that in is with an Ephemeron, a Zelus Tiara, or a Phos Belt being used. I'd go with the Shedir Manteel instead. But then again, I still like Excal over Almace because it can be supported by the gear that already exists for RDM.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/265028

If you want to tell me about how horrible Ephemeron is as an offhand, then I'll just point out it's easy to get over 20 Store TP with it. It's not particularly easy to get, but neither is Crit Damage for CDC.

Without an Ephemeron, RDM sets are a lot harder to put together. If you are using an Excalibur you are already using En-Aero 2 and Paraylzing all the things so your 25% HP proc can go off. No reason your offhand shouldn't have a good additional affect as well.

I don't think Excalibur > Almace, but I do think it is more consistent and I really would rather rely on higher damage and Attack, than trying to gear for Crit on RDM.

[saevel]

Without an Ephemeron, RDM sets are a lot harder to put together. If you are using an Excalibur you are already using En-Aero 2 and Paraylzing all the things so your 25% HP proc can go off. No reason your offhand shouldn't have a good additional affect as well.

This makes no sense, Relics's special stats on exist when their on main hand which is the only place Enspell II's work. Relics and Enspells are pretty much mutually exclusive to each other. As a general rule Eph sucks as a sword, it has a few specialized uses but in general Almace + Str Sword would be a better set. This pretty much forces you to use Zelus tiara to that you have more freedom in all your other slots.

[Neisan_Quetz]

15 stp would be kudzu/vara brigande/rajas/tyrant/brutal unless I'm missing something (vara brigande would also work if it's easier to get than hoping for kudzu drop, or Morta runs dried up on your server)

Fencer's is a close call still... and I can't get the Kthonoios/Shedir combo to win at all

[ManaKing]

This makes no sense, Relics's special stats on exist when their on main hand which is the only place Enspell II's work. Relics and Enspells are pretty much mutually exclusive to each other. As a general rule Eph sucks as a sword, it has a few specialized uses but in general Almace + Str Sword would be a better set. This pretty much forces you to use Zelus tiara to that you have more freedom in all your other slots.

Oh well, that's bit about enspells and relics is wrong. Enspell 1s override ANYTHING. Enspell 2s are actually much lower on the list. The Excalibur proc will go off and override your enspell 2 damage, the rest of the time you get your Enspell 2 damage and the resist lowering.

All I'm saying is that if you like a STR Shikagar that much, you should just make an Excalibur, because that is basically what it is x3 and then you can offhand what you want. My Builds with Excal have over +100 Atk on them. My Almace builds are nowhere close to that because they never incorporated an Ephemeron.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Smh

Even with the entire geode thread in General Str shikargar doesn't stop being the best offhand (bar severe accuracy issues) for most situations you would melee

That and in my case, Almace doubles as being usable on more jobs than Excal would be, and I'd still need a Str Shikargar regardless of which one I would melee with

[ManaKing]

Essentially you are saying, 'I care more about my BLU than my RDM' because you are building the wrong sword because it's convenient. You might also be saying something like, 'I talk about my RDM, but I don't really play it anymore. My BLU on the other hand, oh man I sure do like taking it places.'

Req Blows CDC out of the water in consistency and gear support on RDM. But hey you're BLU can actually use that Almace, so I guess it's good enough to watch your RDM limp around with it.

I would go into how bad your gearing options are without an Ephemeron, but I'm sure you've read enough STR Shikagar comments to not even look at what you can actually gear on RDM.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Ephemeron is a terrible offhand. This does not change based on what main hand you use.

Excal loses the +attack and hidden effect in offhand. Regardless of whether you use Excal or Almace in main hand, Str Shikargar is still your best offhand in most situations.

The difference between 90 Almace and 95 Excal is not as large as you are making it out to be (adding in new Vara Brigande, I have them pretty much even /nin on DC, and Excal 2-5% ahead /dnc). If both are 99 they're pretty close with my sets (Zelus/Kudzu/PhosNQ). If using Vara Brigande for TP Excal pulls ahead by a small amount.

If you're talking about Dynamis farming, then excal pulls ahead since you can't keep up AM, but I don't farm on Rdm in the first place.