The Melee Mage

[Mirage]

Personally, I'm a divine demon hunter when I've got hammers in my hands.

[wildsprite]

This is pure a player distinction.

Blue Mage isn't even thought of as a back line job. Scholar, despite not having the words "Mage" in their name are basically a backline job. Some jobs have elements for the front line that can be played with or played into.

Just like there are situations where a Beastmaster should stay in the back away from their pet and there are others where it should fight along side its pet, there are situations where many jobs often though of as back line should be sitting with the rest of the group. Not all of these situations are even melee related - for example White Mage has some spells, traits, and abilities that encourage you to sit close to the rest of the party in the thick of things.

So a Blue "Mage" isn't just a "Mage" but it is also a Monsterspell Swordsmen. Red "Mage" isn't just a "Mage" but it is also a Spellsword. White "Mage" isn't just a "Mage" but it is also a Cleric.

No job should be classified as a "Mage" just because of what their class is called.

RDM and BLU are Hybrid jobs and should be treated as such, that isnt a player distinction its something SE engrained on us from the beginning of each of those jobs

Scholar is a Tactical Magician or at least that is what SE calls it

White Mage has always been a Cleric, everyone I know who knows what a Cleric is has referred to it as such

[Ordoric]

reverned mail for whm need we say more

[zataz]

i solo alot on my rdm and i love it. i mean if they add stuff great if not thats fine too. i do the best i can do with what they give me. ill tell u what i dont like is how enspells dont effect the attack round after a ws. >.> how many of u notice that?

ps i mean right after the ws

[Tile]

i solo alot on my rdm and i love it. i mean if they add stuff great if not thats fine too. i do the best i can do with what they give me. ill tell u what i dont like is how enspells dont effect the attack round after a ws. >.> how many of u notice that?

ps i mean right after the ws

same thing with dance, seems to only happen when you get the delay just right and you Melee in the middle of you WS.

[Slvr_Stryker]

Looking through this thread, I see a lot of throwing around of the jobs "Red Mage" and "Blue Mage" without really looking back at how these jobs were more or less created and designed, so I think it's time for all of us to get a little bit of a history lesson, thanks to the fine people at the Final Fantasy Wiki (yeah, I know, lolfacts from an easily-editable wiki, but it's the closest thing I have ^^; ).

Red Mage
Traditionally, Red Mages of yore have been able to do a number of things available to them, from casting both White and Black Magic to being able to go toe-to-toe with even the most gruesome monsters with their readily-available list of swords and predominantly-heavier-than-other-mages armor selection. So, since they can do all of this, they are very clearly the best classes in all of the games they're in, right? Well...yes and no.

However, their versatility comes at a price: their stats are usually low, and they cannot cast higher level spells or use stronger equipment. They can learn many spells, but not the strongest, and equip some heavy armor, but not all of it.

The term "jack of all trades, master of none" is thrown around quite a bit in regard to how Red Mages actually work, and in a sense, it's probably the best term to use. A solid Red Mage can be slotted in anywhere where there's a gap. Need a competent healer, and there isn't a White Mage around to throw its potent cures? Snag a Red Mage. Looking for some magic assistance, but there isn't a Black Mage to cast Firaga? Red Mages can throw in Fira on their end, maybe even to the point where the Red Mage in question can cast it twice in succession due to Dualcast (which I still think should be implemented in FFXI, it would really bring a spark back to RDMs again without overpowering them). Hell, can't find someone who can deal copious amounts of physical damage? Red Mages can use swords pretty efficiently. They can take a few hits before going down, too. Red Mages are not *specialists*, but their versatility is what makes them desirable, because while they can't do what other classes can, they can still hold their own by being able to do so many things that would require a combination of 3 separate classes.
In Final Fantasy XI's case, it really isn't all that different. Yes, SE has predominantly thrown them into a more "back-line" category with their spell and equipment listing (and for that matter, so has a loooooooooooooot of the player base, myself included in a way), but that does not mean that they can't throw down in the thick of things. They can still throw out fairly decent melee numbers while also having the ability to step back and sling magic around. It's not going to be as effective as, say, a White Mage throwing around his or her curing spells, or a Black Mage nuking down a magically-weak monster, but it will still be effective. The main thing that the players, and the Red Mages themselves, need to learn is when to go from one thing to another. They need to know when they need to put on their swords, step up to the plate, and swing away. Likewise, they need to know when to step back and let the magical aspect of them shine forth. Just because you are a master of none does not mean you need to have all these new things, then complain when a more specialized job gets something that makes sense in a specialization aspect. All it means is that you need to prepare yourself for any situation, with the spells and the gear that you have, and react accordingly.

Blue Mage
Traditionally speaking, Blue Mages have always been the odd man out in any game that they're in.

Blue Mages, as their name implies, focus on Blue Magic, a special subset of Magic that allows them to use attacks otherwise exclusive to enemies.

As above states, they have a really odd placement in any party, regardless of where they are. And yet, Blue Mages are probably the most fun to train up, due to their completely varied versatility in learning their Blue Magic. Their spells will always be able to surprise and astonish both friend and foe, as well as even producing completely varied results.
There's another thing that a lot of people tend to forget about the Blue Mage:

Beyond this, Blue Mages vary in equipment and physical prowess. They are not as weak as other Mage classes in terms of attack or defense, and are usually capable fighters. Of course, their true strength is their magic.

That first sentence catches my eye the most, which basically says that no two Blue Mages are alike on the physical side. You can't really compare Strago Magus to Khimari Ronso, or Quistis Trepe to Quina Quen, because the only real similarities are due to the fact that they can not only learn abilities from the monsters they fight and slay, but turn around and deliver them in an equally, if not greater, effect upon other foes they face.
Final Fantasy XI's Blue Mages seem to continue this very odd trend. While they may have very great (A-, compared to a Paladin's A+) proficiency in using a sword, their physical armor tends to hold back on just about the same type of gear a Red Mage can use. Also on the forefront are a Blue Mage's stats. Go ahead, do a comparison on the FFXI Stat Calculator between a no-subbed Hume Blue Mage and a no-subbed Hume Red Mage.
...
Surprising, isn't it? While both classes have the exact same HP and MP, the Red Mage ultimately pulls ahead in all but VIT and AGI, while the Blue Mage's stats remain *dead even throughout*. And yet, Blue Mages are almost universally shown to be in a more physical light, while being able to cast magic even at the front lines. Why is this? Because of Blue Magic. It is that magic that gives a Blue Mage not only a physical leg up on Red Mages, but is also a source of their versatility, in a way.
On paper, Blue Mages can do virtually anything that almost any job can do. Hell, looking at the first 20 levels of a Blue Mage's career, they can give themselves 50% more defense, give themselves or their entire party a (fairly weak, but still noticeable) HP boost, debuff monsters in ways that no other job will even think about until later levels, play crowd control via putting monsters around them to sleep, all while dealing plenty of damage to their foes. But in practice, they cannot do this.
SE was smart enough to realize that, if Blue Mages had access to all of their spells, they would be the most broken job in the game, so they limited us in two ways: the set point limitation, where every spell costs a certain amount of spells to set for usage, and ultimately limiting the number of spells we can set up period. Those two restrictions cut down on a Blue Mage's versatility to the point where it, too, has to choose what it ultimately needs to do. Do we run in, swords-a-swinging, pumping out WS-comparable damage with our physical spells? Or do we step back and support with our fairly-lackluster-yet-still-useful list of debuffs, nukes, and cures? The difference between how Red Mage reacts and how Blue Mage reacts differs: while Red Mages can just suit up to the change when it happens, Blue Mages need to take time to set themselves up correctly, so they almost have to try and predict what's going to happen *well* before it actually happens, which is a bad thing when something completely unexpected happens out of nowhere.

Ultimately, however, it really depends on how a player chooses to prepare and set himself, as well as how the general populace learns to see things in turn with the respective jobs. You want to learn how to melee effectively on Red Mage? Awesome, more power to you...just learn when it's appropriate to turn the dial back and focus more on the magic. Really, the same goes to any melee back-liner out there; WHMs, BLMs, SMNs, even BRDs and SCHs. It's possible, and if you can pull it off, all the more power to you, I have no qualms over you doing things that are fun and exciting (believe me, you haven't seen anything until you've seen a SCH single-handedly tank Poisonhand Gnadgad in Campaign...and survive). Hell, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a lot more "back-line" jobs step up and get to swinging, as well as gear that supports that ideal. But when the chips are down and it's time to do the role everyone expects you to do, don't sit there and say "no way, I'm playing how I want to play", because that ultimately creates disastrous results. Learn your job first. Toy around with the extra stuff later. =)

[Lisotte]

Isn't the term "melee mage" kinda oxymoronic?

[Sunrider]

Isn't the term "melee mage" kinda oxymoronic?

No, it kinda isn't.

[Mirage]

Gandalf meleed too! Now and then.

[Economizer]

Also on the forefront are a Blue Mage's stats. Go ahead, do a comparison on the FFXI Stat Calculator between a no-subbed Hume Blue Mage and a no-subbed Hume Red Mage.
...
Surprising, isn't it? While both classes have the exact same HP and MP, the Red Mage ultimately pulls ahead in all but VIT and AGI, while the Blue Mage's stats remain *dead even throughout*. And yet, Blue Mages are almost universally shown to be in a more physical light, while being able to cast magic even at the front lines.

...

Have you ever even set spells on Blue Mage?

I actually have a relevant quote that sums up what I feel about this:

Learn your job first.