Hardcore players!

[Zhronne]

Hey Tam ^^

Well I dunno, I already said I don't agree with what Waldrich is trying to say of course, but I think the definition of what is and what isn't "hardcore" can be pretty subjective and change according to the context we're using it.

In nowadays FFXI I'd dare to say those things I mentioned are somehow "hardcore" compared to the rest of the game, and require an amount of dedication, patience, friends, resources and time that is not comparable to most of the rest of the game content FFXI offers to players at the present moment.
Are these things more/less Hardcore than the hardcore things we had 5 years ago?
The answer, imho, depends on what you defined "hardcore" back then.

What was hardcore? Doing a relic back then, probably was "hardcore", or a Mythic of course. What else? If we use what you said as a way for "measuring" what is hardcore and what is not, I'd dare to say there never has been any hardcore thing in FFXI. Which is probably what a really hardcore player would say, most of the things would feel "easy" to him, and he would be reluctant into defining them "hardcore".
Another player who plays 15 hrs a week would probably have a different view on the same thing.
Who is "right"?
Who is "wrong"?
Who deserves being listened by SE?

Imho the answer to all these questions is: "all of them".
They all pay, they all play, they all contribute -in different ways- into making this game good (it would be boring with 100% hardcore gamers or 100% casuals, trust me), they all deserve a certain degree of attention from developers.
And this is exactely what makes their job hard, since it's not easy to make one side happy when they ask a completely opposite thing from the other side.

[Tamoa]

I absolutely agree with everything you say there. I guess back in the day, being hardcore would be when you were in a hnmls and gave out your phone number to the ls to call you when Tiamat popped in the middle of the night - at least in my opinion. But today? What's being hardcore today? Being able to play 10+ hours a day 7 days a week? People do that and still don't do things like aforementioned events/trials for whatever reason(s). I'm actually really curious what the OP views as being hardcore.

[Waldrich]

I absolutely agree with everything you say there. I guess back in the day, being hardcore would be when you were in a hnmls and gave out your phone number to the ls to call you when Tiamat popped in the middle of the night - at least in my opinion. But today? What's being hardcore today? Being able to play 10+ hours a day 7 days a week? People do that and still don't do things like aforementioned events/trials for whatever reason(s). I'm actually really curious what the OP views as being hardcore.

People that doesn't work to pay the game and they'll be casual or semi-casual when they get a job, cause I can't see how a real ppl can play more than 4-5 hours a day, when he needs to work another 8 hours(talking about majority) in the same day, I don't care what those players do while they're playing or w/e or my post suck or w/e is your opinion, I'm just asking to Square Enix to think about it when making "NEW" contents.

[Waldrich]

Hey Tam ^^

Well I dunno, I already said I don't agree with what Waldrich is trying to say of course, but I think the definition of what is and what isn't "hardcore" can be pretty subjective and change according to the context we're using it.

In nowadays FFXI I'd dare to say those things I mentioned are somehow "hardcore" compared to the rest of the game, and require an amount of dedication, patience, friends, resources and time that is not comparable to most of the rest of the game content FFXI offers to players at the present moment.
Are these things more/less Hardcore than the hardcore things we had 5 years ago?
The answer, imho, depends on what you defined "hardcore" back then.

What was hardcore? Doing a relic back then, probably was "hardcore", or a Mythic of course. What else? If we use what you said as a way for "measuring" what is hardcore and what is not, I'd dare to say there never has been any hardcore thing in FFXI. Which is probably what a really hardcore player would say, most of the things would feel "easy" to him, and he would be reluctant into defining them "hardcore".
Another player who plays 15 hrs a week would probably have a different view on the same thing.
Who is "right"?
Who is "wrong"?
Who deserves being listened by SE?

Imho the answer to all these questions is: "all of them".
They all pay, they all play, they all contribute -in different ways- into making this game good (it would be boring with 100% hardcore gamers or 100% casuals, trust me), they all deserve a certain degree of attention from developers.
And this is exactely what makes their job hard, since it's not easy to make one side happy when they ask a completely opposite thing from the other side.

I really really like this post.

[Tamoa]

People that doesn't work to pay the game and they'll be casual or semi-casual when they get a job, cause I can't see how a real ppl can play more than 4-5 hours a day, when he needs to work another 8 hours in the same day, I don't care what those players do while they're playing or w/e or my post suck or w/e is your opinion, I'm just asking to Square Enix to think about it when making "NEW" contents.

"Real people" can still do every event and any trial in this game. If anything, this game has become a lot more "real people"-friendly than it used to be.

[Waldrich]

"Real people" can still do every event and any trial in this game. If anything, this game has become a lot more "real people"-friendly than it used to be.

then do you think we don't need more players?
more one question; since when are you playing?

[Tamoa]

then do you think we don't need more players?
more one question; since when are you playing?

This game is 10 years old, let's face it, it won't draw mass amount of new players, that time has passed.

Started playing FFXI in 2004 - what's that got to do with anything?

[Waldrich]

NOTE: not everyone have a full PT of friends or can plays when all your friends are playing.

Something that the players(with alot of time available) have an advantage is: "time to shout" for unpopular events, I started the game 4 months ago from 0, the game is alot more fair for most of players, but we already can see the game struggling to keep some events alive, things like seal farm PT, nowdays you need to shout for around 1-2 hours or go duo, trio w/o all triggers; Limbus is dead and I'll need to do it "if" I want new limbus upgraded armors, I need to work really 'hard' 'IF' i don't want to rely on luck while doing "new" nyzul isle and I still need to do old nyzul isle, and they share the same assault tag, if you're playing for more time than me, you clearly have an advantage about it, Hardcore player or those ppl who have alot of time to play have a good time doing those stuffs, cause they can do everything(all available events) in only 1 week.

[Waldrich]

This game is 10 years old, let's face it, it won't draw mass amount of new players, that time has passed.

Started playing FFXI in 2004 - what's that got to do with anything?

Well, they can try get more players, but they need to do something that is fun, and not restrict for some jobs or players.
Starting this game nowdays for a total newbie is kinda an invite to quit playing, cause you'll lose more time with old contents than new contents. (Specially talking about Old Nyzul Isle, New Nyzul Isle, Salvage 1.0 and 2.0 [incoming soon]. we're clearly f***d by the assaults tags.)

old contents had bad teleportation/movimentation methods compared to nowdays.

[Tamoa]

There's nothing new in what you're saying though - players with more available time have always had an advantage on those with less available time. And back before Abyssea and level cap increase you pretty much HAD to have a group/ls to do things with, you couldn't solo dynamis, you couldn't solo limbus, you couldn't solo salvage, you couldn't solo sky (unless you were a really good rdm and then only a few select nms), you couldn't solo missions - and you sure as hell couldn't level a job in a few hours. Starting a game as old as FFXI is, as recently as you have, you're going to have to expect the majority of players being ahead of you.

To be blunt, it sounds more like you have a problem with people that have accomplished more than you because they have played this game for a long time. I'm sorry, but that's what it comes across like.