Hardcore players!

[Tamoa]

Dunno. He probably meant level 99 trials for Relic/Empy weapons, Legion and New Nyzul Isle.

In all honesty I don't see why you have to be hardcore to do either of those things. All you need is determination, and to not suck. Any group of 6 good players can do Neo-Nyzul and be lucky enough to clear F100. Same goes for Legion (18, not 6 - obviously). 99 relic weapons trial - you don't need to be hardcore to do that, again you just need a group of people that don't suck and that are willing to commit to finishing each others weapons/help out. Only thing that can be difficult for the casual player is the 95-99 empyrean trials, simply because it will take a long time to finish. But it's still doable - assuming heavy metal/riftdross or riftcinder supply is there.


Edit: ohi Sechs, didn't notice it was you at first :P

[Zhronne]

Hey Tam ^^

Well I dunno, I already said I don't agree with what Waldrich is trying to say of course, but I think the definition of what is and what isn't "hardcore" can be pretty subjective and change according to the context we're using it.

In nowadays FFXI I'd dare to say those things I mentioned are somehow "hardcore" compared to the rest of the game, and require an amount of dedication, patience, friends, resources and time that is not comparable to most of the rest of the game content FFXI offers to players at the present moment.
Are these things more/less Hardcore than the hardcore things we had 5 years ago?
The answer, imho, depends on what you defined "hardcore" back then.

What was hardcore? Doing a relic back then, probably was "hardcore", or a Mythic of course. What else? If we use what you said as a way for "measuring" what is hardcore and what is not, I'd dare to say there never has been any hardcore thing in FFXI. Which is probably what a really hardcore player would say, most of the things would feel "easy" to him, and he would be reluctant into defining them "hardcore".
Another player who plays 15 hrs a week would probably have a different view on the same thing.
Who is "right"?
Who is "wrong"?
Who deserves being listened by SE?

Imho the answer to all these questions is: "all of them".
They all pay, they all play, they all contribute -in different ways- into making this game good (it would be boring with 100% hardcore gamers or 100% casuals, trust me), they all deserve a certain degree of attention from developers.
And this is exactely what makes their job hard, since it's not easy to make one side happy when they ask a completely opposite thing from the other side.

[Waldrich]

Hey Tam ^^

Well I dunno, I already said I don't agree with what Waldrich is trying to say of course, but I think the definition of what is and what isn't "hardcore" can be pretty subjective and change according to the context we're using it.

In nowadays FFXI I'd dare to say those things I mentioned are somehow "hardcore" compared to the rest of the game, and require an amount of dedication, patience, friends, resources and time that is not comparable to most of the rest of the game content FFXI offers to players at the present moment.
Are these things more/less Hardcore than the hardcore things we had 5 years ago?
The answer, imho, depends on what you defined "hardcore" back then.

What was hardcore? Doing a relic back then, probably was "hardcore", or a Mythic of course. What else? If we use what you said as a way for "measuring" what is hardcore and what is not, I'd dare to say there never has been any hardcore thing in FFXI. Which is probably what a really hardcore player would say, most of the things would feel "easy" to him, and he would be reluctant into defining them "hardcore".
Another player who plays 15 hrs a week would probably have a different view on the same thing.
Who is "right"?
Who is "wrong"?
Who deserves being listened by SE?

Imho the answer to all these questions is: "all of them".
They all pay, they all play, they all contribute -in different ways- into making this game good (it would be boring with 100% hardcore gamers or 100% casuals, trust me), they all deserve a certain degree of attention from developers.
And this is exactely what makes their job hard, since it's not easy to make one side happy when they ask a completely opposite thing from the other side.

I really really like this post.

[Tamoa]

I absolutely agree with everything you say there. I guess back in the day, being hardcore would be when you were in a hnmls and gave out your phone number to the ls to call you when Tiamat popped in the middle of the night - at least in my opinion. But today? What's being hardcore today? Being able to play 10+ hours a day 7 days a week? People do that and still don't do things like aforementioned events/trials for whatever reason(s). I'm actually really curious what the OP views as being hardcore.

[Waldrich]

I absolutely agree with everything you say there. I guess back in the day, being hardcore would be when you were in a hnmls and gave out your phone number to the ls to call you when Tiamat popped in the middle of the night - at least in my opinion. But today? What's being hardcore today? Being able to play 10+ hours a day 7 days a week? People do that and still don't do things like aforementioned events/trials for whatever reason(s). I'm actually really curious what the OP views as being hardcore.

People that doesn't work to pay the game and they'll be casual or semi-casual when they get a job, cause I can't see how a real ppl can play more than 4-5 hours a day, when he needs to work another 8 hours(talking about majority) in the same day, I don't care what those players do while they're playing or w/e or my post suck or w/e is your opinion, I'm just asking to Square Enix to think about it when making "NEW" contents.

[Tamoa]

People that doesn't work to pay the game and they'll be casual or semi-casual when they get a job, cause I can't see how a real ppl can play more than 4-5 hours a day, when he needs to work another 8 hours in the same day, I don't care what those players do while they're playing or w/e or my post suck or w/e is your opinion, I'm just asking to Square Enix to think about it when making "NEW" contents.

"Real people" can still do every event and any trial in this game. If anything, this game has become a lot more "real people"-friendly than it used to be.

[Waldrich]

"Real people" can still do every event and any trial in this game. If anything, this game has become a lot more "real people"-friendly than it used to be.

then do you think we don't need more players?
more one question; since when are you playing?

[Tamoa]

then do you think we don't need more players?
more one question; since when are you playing?

This game is 10 years old, let's face it, it won't draw mass amount of new players, that time has passed.

Started playing FFXI in 2004 - what's that got to do with anything?

[Afania]

People that doesn't work to pay the game and they'll be casual or semi-casual when they get a job, cause I can't see how a real ppl can play more than 4-5 hours a day, when he needs to work another 8 hours(talking about majority) in the same day, I don't care what those players do while they're playing or w/e or my post suck or w/e is your opinion, I'm just asking to Square Enix to think about it when making "NEW" contents.

Although OP's problem has nothing to do with players being hardcore or not, still:

I love how ppl generalize those "hardcore" players as ppl without jobs and play for 8 hours a day. As if you're doing more "hardcore" event, then you have no job.


The difference between players who plays 8 hours a day v.s plays 2~3 hours a day is, ppl who plays 8 hours a day gets stuff faster, that's it. Yes, causal players may not be able to get relic in 1 month, but why not just take your time and do it in 3~4 months instead if you want one?

None of the event in this game requires 8 hours of straight play to do. Legion only takes 30 min a run, count the gathering time that's 1.5hr a run~2.5hr for 2 runs, and shouldn't take more than 3hrs. Dyna only takes 2hr, VW from /shout to pop all takes 2~3hr for VERY unpopular ones. Nyzul takes 30 min a run, 3 tags including 2hr reset/break time can still be done in 3 hr. 3 hours of play time you can do pretty much every event, 4hours of play time a day you can do every event without the risk of having to leave early. You don't NEED more than 4~5hr a day of play time to get every stuff done, unless it's not 4~5hr straight, but rather 1hr at once and play 4 times with constant rl interruption. For those who work for 10 hours a day, and sleep for 8hrs, play for 3hr a day is still quite affordable(although may be a bit tiring)

I understand some ppl have weird work schedule, and have to play on different timezone, making it harder to make VW/legion/Nyzul/Abby pt due to different timezone, but it has nothing to do with how many hours you play.....you can play for 8hrs in JP timezone, and unable to get any English pt for anything, or you can play for 3hr in EST timezone, and do an event with English speaking players really fast.

If you happened to have to do something extremely unpopular(such as seal farm), fat chances are even if you have 8 hr a day of play time, you still can't get ppl. It's probably better to solve the problem by other means, rather than blame all the problem to your play time.

Yes, this game may need friends to get shit done, may need more skill/gears to do harder content such as Legion, but it has nothing to do with your play time at all, more about how good you're at solving the problem, finding friends, organizing a pt and so on. Some of the real hardcore content in this game, doesn't require 8hr of play time a day and you can totally play with a job, I know enough players in this game has a full time job, and still has relic/empy, do "hardcore" content such as legion, enough said.

[Waldrich]

NOTE: not everyone have a full PT of friends or can plays when all your friends are playing.

Something that the players(with alot of time available) have an advantage is: "time to shout" for unpopular events, I started the game 4 months ago from 0, the game is alot more fair for most of players, but we already can see the game struggling to keep some events alive, things like seal farm PT, nowdays you need to shout for around 1-2 hours or go duo, trio w/o all triggers; Limbus is dead and I'll need to do it "if" I want new limbus upgraded armors, I need to work really 'hard' 'IF' i don't want to rely on luck while doing "new" nyzul isle and I still need to do old nyzul isle, and they share the same assault tag, if you're playing for more time than me, you clearly have an advantage about it, Hardcore player or those ppl who have alot of time to play have a good time doing those stuffs, cause they can do everything(all available events) in only 1 week.