FFXI fixed!

[Sarick]

I already explained all of that here:


Again, just for you:
Elite pool = HQ pool
Elite pool accessible to everyone = everyone gets the chance to play for the HQ pool

And that was my exact wording. Everyone should be able to play the hard content. Hard does not mean exclusive. But it should be challenging. That's why people who aren't that skilled with endgame content can practice on lower difficulties. Once they have that down, they can move up and tackle the challenging content. Note that challenging also doesn't imply unfair. In the end, everyone should be able to access and win the challenging content. Hence everyone gets a shot at the reward.

That is not the opposite of everyone. It's everyone. Stop lying.

What are you smoking.

Person A Is a hard core player

Person B Is A Normal Casual player

Person C Is A below average player.

Your first quote sums up as:

You think everyone should get a chance at the items in their pools, and you don't like the idea of people prancing around in Trophy gear. It doesn't solve things.

Person A, Person B and Person C would get it.

Your second quote sums up to:

Oh, crap I made a mistake, I didn't want all items available to everyone Just the hardcore and casuals. My fault for not explaining that everyone just means skill level.

Person A and Person B would get it. Person C is unworthy and needs to train harder.

Your third quote sums up to:

Here's your idea here's mine. I Don't like yours and disagree. You created two tables depicting your setup. In this same quote you say you've been suggesting this all along. It list all three tiers with separate contents one for each tier. What a minute this isn't the same thing as the first and second quotes.

It shows Only Person A getting the HQ item. Everyone else gets sloppy seconds.

Conclusion: Anyone who reads this would see the difference in opinion changing over time. It's not baseless you've been flip flopping the entire topic saying one thing and meaning another or changing it once you gain a little ground. I've argued with you before on the storage system.

If you didn't care about the gear anyway you wouldn't be arguing, back pedaling or trying to invalidate the very words you created. Most people have stopped reading this. Not only have you forgotten previous post but lack the understanding of features that where already added. Don't get me wrong you did say something along the lines of it was your fault for not knowing. It still doesn't excuse or the things I've pointed out. Trying to discredit me even when I link to stuff just increases my credibility. Those are your unedited quotes in the previous post not mine.

[Arcon]

Your second quote sums up to:

Oh, crap I made a mistake, I didn't want all items available to everyone Just the hardcore and casuals. My fault for not explaining that everyone just means skill level.

Person A and Person B would get it. Person C is unworthy and needs to train harder.

Liar. That's not what my second post says, that's not what I ever said. I explained it twice now.

What I meant was that the elite pool should also be accessible to casual players, not that every reward should drop off every difficulty level. As in, every casual should be able to work up to that and be able to clear it with practice and patience.

I say explicitely that the elite pool should be accessible to everyone. Anyone who reads this as me wanting to exclude people from certain items is braindamaged.

[Sarick]

Liar. That's not what my second post says, that's not what I ever said. I explained it twice now.

I say explicitely that the elite pool should be accessible to everyone. Anyone who reads this as me wanting to exclude people from certain items is braindamaged.

I left you same breathing room when I made the last post. a lot was lost in the rewrite (Token expired). I think most of what I wrote was retained.

Unfortunately, based on your guidelines you've further clarified the same elitist only garbage. You said you didn't want. You implied that you want content available for everyone, This sounds good on paper until you posted the flip-flop arguments above.

This further unqualified you from creating an unbiased solution while confirming my ~baseless accusations~. You've definitely hit a home run here Arcon compromising your position. You've literally implied only elites deserve special content. How?, Using this as a base you want to force Joe Pink into the same tier content.

Let's go back to the Olympics comment I made a few post back. Under your terms EVERYONE can attempt to get to the Olympics but only a select few will make it. This only confirms you're after making hardcore content to suit your agenda. It's an elitist agenda meant to include only the upper echelon of the player base.

This flat excludes lower tier content by nature despite it's availability. After all as I stated previously Joe Pink doesn't have a chance in hell. The proposed table you wrote up includes content tiers to gives the impression everyone is included. The reality is nothing you've listed gives Joe pink a fighting chance for the items in higher tier content. My solution does and is balanced more across the board.

You invalidate your argument by subverting all tiers. They don't have equal access to the same equipment. This confirms my accusation of flip-flopping, personal bias and an elitist agenda. You can sit at whatever device your posting on and say "I want tiered content available to everyone" but in reality only a minority can might beat the higher tier content for special items. This is a jaded attitude that doesn't apply all factors behind the nature of tiered content. Again I stress this, Joe Pink doesn't have a chance in hell.

[Slaxx]

I think the point Arcon is trying to make (and has made pretty clearly to me) is that "Joe Pink" (and I'm already sick of that term) can clear the low tier content for the low tier gear so he will no longer be "Joe Pink". Using that gear and the skills obtained through clearing the low tier he will then be better able to succeed at the higher tier content and have a chance at the better rewards it offers.

Sarick at this point you seem to be ignoring the meat of what Arcon is saying and taking small points out of context and ignoring the overall system he is proposing.

Arcon please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my assesment of what you are proposing.

[Arcon]

Arcon please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my assesment of what you are proposing.

No, you're quite correct, and I feel most people got it as well. I did post it about fifteen times so far, so not really surprising. Some disagree, and that's ok too. But he's just posting to have the last word now.

I'll let him have it, this argument has lost all of its amusement for me. He's trying so hard to discredit me that he makes leaps of judgment and states one groundless assumption after another.

One final thing to think about, Sarick, is how insulting you are to everyone who's not able to participate in hardcore content right now. You're basically telling them that if they're not hardcore players they'll never improve and always remain insignificant lowly players who will have to settle for whatever scraps they're able to pick up. That alone shows enough of your attitude as well as your faith in the community.

[..] "Joe Pink" (and I'm already sick of that term) [..]

It's worth to stop arguing any further with just to not have to read that again.

[Komori]

To me, your both right on certain things. Not every Joe/Jane pink will stay that way, we were all "noobs" at one point, so if some can raise to the top then so can the rest of us. But not everyone aspires to reach the top, some are content to just do whatever or the easiest content and then leave the game. And others don't mind sitting in the middle, neither being above par or below it. And then of course you have the few that want to dominate this game. I know people who I've personally offered to get +1 for and they refused, saying Aurore/Perle/Teal did just fine.

But I've also seen people go from being Aurore/Perle/Teal and build up to the best gear and multiple empys and relics. We all play this game for different reasons and have different opinions and wants.

Bottom line is; looking at the first post having seven likes and the third having fifty-six. Right now, you few are in the minority and I don't think it's honestly worth SE's time to incoporate something that only a small percentage would take advantage of and the rest wouldn't bother. Most people are still busy working on clearing Nyzul Uncharted, Legion and all of the new revamped content and preparing for the new content that's coming, I suggest "hardcores" work on all the current content and wait to see New Salvage and Seekers also before asking for this.

[Sarick]

I think the point Arcon is trying to make (and has made pretty clearly to me) is that "Joe Pink" (and I'm already sick of that term) can clear the low tier content for the low tier gear so he will no longer be "Joe Pink". Using that gear and the skills obtained through clearing the low tier he will then be better able to succeed at the higher tier content and have a chance at the better rewards it offers.

Sarick at this point you seem to be ignoring the meat of what Arcon is saying and taking small points out of context and ignoring the overall system he is proposing.

NO, He wants the same thing the OP wants and Is trying to validate higher tier content with the assumption that everyone has a chance. I made it clear about personal limitations. You can't place content in the game and expect everyone to rank up into superhuman skill. Consider all the objections from the community when content is overdone. You forget the past where players got sick in game fighting a BOSS that only SE knew secrets to beating. This is the HARDCORE content level people need to be made aware of.

[Arcon]

Bottom line is; looking at the first post having seven likes and the third having fifty-six.

I believe that many of them are just afraid that the result will be another Neo-Nyzul. Neo-Nyzul fits the description of what's suggested if you look at it superficially, as it has different rewards based on different floors you can clear. But I'd tell you this, if the event itself wasn't quite this luck-dependant and had a few annoying time wasters removed it would be a lot more popular and you'd see many people trying to clear it.

It would be a matter of adjusting it to a fair level, but if that was done correctly, I say it would be very popular among the playerbase. Imagine a Neo-Nyzul where you'd get a piece guaranteed depending on the floor you cleared even if you overshoot (like getting a guaranteed F80 piece if you get to F85). Now imagine that same Nyzul with some luck factors removed (for example no lamp floors and constant 7 floor jumps). I'd bet you a relic that people would do the shit out of it. And even if they didn't make it to the top, they'd still get rewarded depending on their performance. Despite that, they still wouldn't lose motivation to try if they saw that F100 was within their reach. This, in turn, would give them many chances to practice the content. They'd get better at communication, identifying the right mobs, positioning and pathing, even the random fights within the event. I know this for a fact because the same was true with regular Nyzul at 75, and I've been in enough parties to notice. You could definitely identify a Nyzul newbie and tell him apart from the guy who was 0/40 on Askar Gambieras.

It's just a matter of adjusting the event so it actually is doable.

[Sarick]

One final thing to think about, Sarick, is how insulting you are to everyone who's not able to participate in hardcore content right now. You're basically telling them that if they're not hardcore players they'll never improve and always remain insignificant lowly players who will have to settle for whatever scraps they're able to pick up. That alone shows enough of your attitude as well as your faith in the community.

I'm not insulting those players, I'm trying to set a bar where it possible to complete at lower tier with the same rewards at different drop rates. If they can't reach the skill set levels they have a lower tier they can compete on without needing resorting to frustrate themselves or deal with elitist for the same gear.

No one has fun by saying "I give up F this game!" If, they can learn this fine and dandy but for the love of all that holy don't say shit that this shit or scales to all players at the highest level without realizing the highest levels will always be another minority.

It's clear you want more challenging content and there are multiple reasons both spoken and unspoken behind this. The thing that pushes buttons is the tiers seem to be setup as method to create gear that one can prance around in and say look at me I beat leet boss.

You stated that you don't care about this and wouldn't mind it being in the other pools. Even if that's not what you want it still doesn't excuse that this system of yours is harsh for people who can't confirm to the standards of Jimmy leet.

I attack your credibility because, you're insulting people by implying they don't deserve access to some items or gear even if they can earn it through multiple paths. This isn't good for anyone and separates the community into haves and have nots. The community where players MUST meet the hardcore level of skill or give up.

I if remember currently I read that you're happy with the games current state, people with the capacity to get things done easily are often happy with the status quo. It then comes down to wanting higher rewards for bigger challenges. Everyone can agree to this at some level unless, it tries to create an illusion that one person is worth more than another. This is what your system does.

[Arcon]

I attack your credibility because, you're insulting people by implying they don't deserve access to some items or gear even if they can earn it through multiple paths. This isn't good for anyone and separates the community into haves and have nots. The community where players MUST meet the hardcore level of skill or give up.

Liar. I wasn't implying that.

I if remember currently I read that you're happy with the games current state, people with the capacity to get things done easily are often happy with the status quo. It then comes down to wanting higher rewards for bigger challenges. Everyone can agree to this at some level unless, it tries to create an illusion that one person is worth more than another. This is what your system does.

You're mixing things up. I said that I am happy, for myself with the current game. I can already achieve these things and am doing so. But I don't think this is what it should be like. That's why I support difficulty tiers.

Currently: only one difficulty, hard.
Suggestion: add more and easier difficulties.

Here's the thing you don't get (well, one of them): I already have gear that sets me apart from other players. If that was what I wanted, why would I suggest this at all? If I wanted the system to remain that way, I wouldn't care for threads like these. I'd just sit back and relax while SE dishes out more content that I can clear but others can't. You accusing me of wanting to stand out is completely paradoxical, because I already do. I can live with the status quo, because it favors me. But that's not what I think it should be like. This suggestion would make events more accessible and help people get better at content that they currently cannot clear, or even attempt.

You probably won't believe me anyway, but I'll still say it: the main reason why I want these things added is because I could actually go back to my social LS for events like Legion and Neo-Einherjar. Currently we don't stand a chance there because we only have a few people interested in it and nowhere near enough to efficiently tackle these events. And here's another thing: many people who would help are discouraged from trying because of the difficulty. But with a system that offers several difficulty settings we could be able to get a feel for the event, coordinate our efforts to get more people motivated. And we'd be able to get gear that helps us with the final challenge along the way.