FFXI fixed!

[Sarick]

Again you miss the point that it is not about competition. That's already why you Olympic games comparison failed. Just because someone gets gold here does not mean that it precludes others from getting it as well. About the pool thing.

You try really really hard to undermined any examples or alternatives no matter how clear or what they're based on if it doesn't suit your bias. Take off the glasses. I understand the comparison my friends do as well, it's just you and the opposition that can't grasp it.

You misunderstood what I meant, although I admit my wording was ambiguous. I forgot we were talking about the OP's idea and was talking about skill requirements in general. What I meant was that the elite pool should also be accessible to casual players, not that every reward should drop off every difficulty level. As in, every casual should be able to work up to that and be able to clear it with practice and patience.

I didn't misunderstand anything here, you're trying to shift fault on me. Let's make this clear you're the one who wrote it not me. I assume when someone says "Everyone" It means everyone. Don't try and weasel your way out of a mistake that's clearly your fault or try and pin it on me again. You keep saying one thing then contradicting yourself in an effort to (I assume) confuse people.

Let me explain something. In Japan there is a saying about demons, their weaknesses and, how to defend yourself from them. It go's something like this "If you know the demons name you have power over it." For clarification I'm referring about the tactic not you directly. Maybe you assume I'm arguing wrong. I just recognize the what's going on and take advantage of it.

What do you mean by natural skill limit? Are you saying some people are so bad that they can't improve to a point that they'd be useful to a group? If that's true I've yet to meet someone like that and I've met a lot of people. Unless, of course, you're talking about someone with a mental disability, but if you think the game should be designed around them I'm done arguing with you.

I'm saying limiting factors in a broad scope of things not just a high degree of mental disability that you painted a picture of. My guess is you over read my Olympics example to extremes. I did say something along the lines of "lesser extent" when I posted that. As for the scope, I made a mini list of multiple things that can limit Joe pink. Again, you missed something I wrote in a previous post. I don't like repeating this list because each point branchs out into sub factors that also need explained in detail. Please go recap.

Secondly, Did you see the post I made a few pages back that had Jimmy Leet as a minority, Jack Normal as a majority and Joe Pink as a minority. I thin placed an arrow toward Jack Normal and said something along with it. I'll let you recap since you missed/ignored that as well.

Another, thing I posted in a previous comment was related to the easy button, too weak, low quality mode being for wins, maybe atmas and percepts. I didn't misdirect this because it would still be available if Joe Pink had earned the win on the weakest setting for some item.

Do you remember the update before last SE added the ability to make some items that could be rebuilt later with the inclusion that the player had to have access to the content? Well, I assumed that everyone would get that access under the lower tier setup anyway if needed just getting the base wins. The reason for my reactions are because the multiple times people said that only casual or greater would have access.

Judging by your outlook you missed these fine details when I explained the balance way back. I don't condemn you for failing to recognize this because it's not something the average person would see above the surface when looking into deep water. I also didn't go into details here because I assumed you'd already known this.

And even back then I said why that was a bad example. First of all, whether I get a relic in two or four months makes no difference to me. I'm not in a rush. I play this game casually, it's a pastime. Secondly, it does not even require any skills at all, because you can just make the money from other sources that require less skill and give more money (like FC parties, for example). I never farmed Dyna at all and I have a relic too, and I got it faster than most Dynamis farmers.

Because money is not what I'm looking for. It's compensation for my time and effort, not a reward. I don't look forward to do a job for the money, I do it begrudgingly waiting to get paid. That's the first reason why it doesn't compare to this situation.

The second is that it's not about "more" or "less" rewarding, but about the kind of reward. I never argued that it isn't "more" rewarding, but I told you specifically that that wasn't what I was looking for. It's about quality over quantity. Skill should be rewarded in an unique way, not just more of the same. Why doesn't every event just reward us moat carps, more or less depending on the difficulty. And we could rank items and make them redeemable with a certain number of carps. That's essentially what you're suggesting.

It is not a bad example unless you have a skewed perception on what everyone wants. Again you missed something. I commented on this in the last post where the lawyer and teacher both at different levels can find things rewarding in different ways yet be on a different scale of income. You went directly after the money as the subject not the means to how rewarding it is or is not.

In that respect, you're unqualified to represent this outside your own personal interest. Since you can't be satisfied by it you deem it completely irrelevant as a solution and can't grasp differing levels of satisfaction/reward I doubt you can grasp balance. After all, this solution isn't just about you. It's very obvious this is another conflict of interest and it's skewed by personal bias on your part.

The purpose was to be a general encouragement that represents as many players as possible without adding the extra baggage of new special content.

That's exactly why you shouldn't be making these kinds of accusations. Pointless throwing around claims that you can't back up at all.

This again, If I didn't have something that could be proven/or disproved I'll go with the most straight forward reasoning. Good or bad this has won wars saved lives etc. Granted this type of logic isn't perfect but in general everyone makes these choices every day and they don't even realize it.

I have examples like the one above when you contradict yourself then change views blaming it on my misinterpretation. That confirms at least one of these pointless accusations has some merit. The others are left totally at the discretion of the reader. Given the post pool it wouldn't be difficult to ascertain this. Does this upset you?, if you are innocent I'd assume the evidence would be in your favor when the readers determine this.

We don't agree, and I don't think you understood what I meant. You're suggesting:
Tier 1: 10% drop rate of desired item (noobs go here)
Tier 2: 50% drop rate of desired item (made for average people)
Tier 3: 100% drop rate of desired item (made for the elitist scum)

What I'm suggesting is the following:
Tier 1: 100% drop rate of LQ item (requires attendance)
Tier 2: 100% drop rate of NQ item (requires patience and strategy)
Tier 3: 100% drop rate of HQ item (requires preparation, coordination and effort)

The reason why you assume my idea is bad is because you think some people will never be able to complete tier 3. Why do you say that? Have you seen the T3 already, even though it's just in my head so far? How can you qualify that statement without knowing the actual difficulty?

Oh here we go again, Now it's not everyone but only Jimmy Leet that has access to HQ. Can't you even get your own understanding it check before you post back to back contradictions? All this does is confuse confuse people. As I stated earlier in this post this can be used as a tactic. Not sure if it's intentional and give you the benefit of doubt on this portion.

How can I qualify? I can based this on my experience and the reviews I've seen from the community. It's common knowledge that SE is notorious for making content that is unsuitable for everyone. They try and find an in between hardcore and casual and sometimes fail hard. If you're trying to invalid my reasoning behind this you'll fall short in doing so. Everyone who has any experience with SE/FFXI knows this.

I already told why one bad player is no reason this wouldn't work: because the group can even it out. I already said it should not require perfect gear. I also said it should not be unforgiving (like Legion currently is because of the time limit). No one mistake should kill the run. It should be something that's accessible and possible to beat even with average players if they play well. Sure, they wouldn't be able to clear it every time, but I see no issue with that (and neither do you, because that's precisely your argument).

When I say it should reward skill you jumped at the conclusion that it should be absolutely impossible to beat if you don't do everything perfectly, all the time. That was an assumption on your part. I told you what seems like a million times by now that I don't want to exclude anyone from getting a shot at the win. Only that it should require effort. It's ok to completely wipe the first ten attempts. Make smaller rewards along the way. Like Legion when clearing the first wave. That way a group can watch their own progress as they build their skills and gain practice in that event. That is how people learn to play better, and it's the only way.

A constant stream of mediocre content will not produce skilled players, no matter their potential.

You keep thinking this way, the evidence has shown that if content is increased players have been known to optimize setups or even outright cheat in order to win. It's also shown that if given the option a majority will choose the easiest route to do things this includes but is not limited to special setups, skill sets or previous relationships.

Wrong. Again. I told you many times before, in this very thread, that I do like the current system. I am happy with the way the game is right now. Unlike you, it would seem, because currently it's already the way I suggested it, only without the different difficulty levels. Instead there's content exclusively catered to high-level players. What I'm basically suggesting is to introduce lower difficulty Legion tiers which people could use to gain skill and experience in that particular event, because right now it's designed to exclude untrained/inexperienced players. And that's not because it's insanely difficult, but because it's expensive and unforgiving, which means people don't get the chance to just go in and get experience with it, they don't get to improve with practice at all. They either have a high-level group to tackle the content with already or they don't. That's what this suggestion would remedy.

Yet you offer no solutions other then training wheel courses. I just had to laugh so hard my stomach contents found their way out. What I suggested was alternative routes. It's aways easy teach an old dog new tricks, wrong. Like I said countless times everyone has their own natural ability.

If you try and force something like this then it creates an environment where one or both sides will not be satisfied with. This could cause players to quit out of frustration or boredom. It's rather simple make things equal on a different scale. Just because you have all the time in the world and/or patience not everyone is build the same way.