FFXI fixed!

[Arcon]

I don't know what hardcore times you want to go back to. Before the level cap increase, you had what? Limbus, Sea, Sky, dynamis, kings, Salvage and ZNM? Which of those events was harder than VW? Or Neo Nyzul? Or even abyssea?

I don't find any of today's events to be all that different from the past in terms of difficulty. It's just the in your face RNG that has become a little too apparent.

All of those events are harder than both VW and Abyssea. I have absolutely no idea how you can even for a second assume anything else. How many times did you duo Kirin at 75? Or JoL? AV? SSR? PW? T3 ZNM? Proto-Ultima? DL? Nidhogg? Or anything else in that content? When was the last time you took more than two people to kill anything in Abyssea (where the third guy was not just a proc job)? And I bet the number of times you wiped in VW is less than the number of times you wiped in any of the events I just mentioned. When you do a VW run you already assume that you're going to win. You don't require skill or strategy or even a good setup.

Neo-Nyzul is hard only because of the time limit. The content itself is easy. It's just luck screwing you over. Which brings me to my next point: Why do you assume that whenever we ask for challenge we're gonna get shafted by the RNG? Neo-Nyzul is and VW are the only things I can think of where that's the case. Aside from sea capes/torques, Salvage 35 bodies and regular Dynamis AF the drop rate on pretty much everything at 75 was decent. The drop rate on Legion and Einherjar gear is alright too. I'm really not sure where you're getting this from. Is it just VW and Neo-Nyzul tainting your opinion on this, or is there something else?

What is being pushed in this thread is an event(s) that cannot be completed without perfect gear / skills. It also bears mentioning that an event of that difficulty would probably be too hard for most of the people asking for it. So it's double lame in that sense. Within the confines of this games mechanics, it is almost impossible to make something like that. If there is a pattern, people will figure it out and repeat. If there is no pattern, there is no skill. Once 1 group has figured out how to beat something, luck and time are the only differentiating factors between who has the drop and who doesn't. Time is the only one that you get to influence. Hence it is the best basis for reward. Better players take less time to achieve things. That's the benefit to them.

I think you severely overestimate the effect gear has in this situation. There is not a single event I can think of that can be cleared by a decked out alliance but can not be cleared by an alliance with people missing gear left and right. That was the case at 75 too. The only two really important stats back then were Accuracy for melee and Magic Accuracy for mages.

And I already mentioned before that the gap in gear will never be as big as it used to be, because the base is already set very high with Abyssea gear. If someone has full Empyrean +2 gear, they will have a very good basis in terms of their jobs' capabilities. Adding onto that will not make people exponentially stronger, only give them edges in situational cases.

I'm pretty happy right now. I have a lot of projects and I get to meet people socially now due to the nature of VW / Abyssea. I never really talked to a lot of people outside of my shell before that because I was always farming stuff with the same few people.

I'm not unhappy. That's also something people don't quite seem to get. As soon as someone suggests something that goes against their views people like to jump at things like "whining", "bitching" and (for the mentally challenged crowd) "u mad", without realizing that if I wasn't enjoying the game, I wouldn't be playing. This is just something that would make the game more appealing to me.

If people wanna argue against this, please keep the following in mind:

• We hate RNG shafting as much as the next guy. This is not what we're asking for.
• We're not asking for elitism. We do not want exclusion of players. All events should be accessible to everyone. But it should take strategy, practice and effort to win.
• We're not asking for rewards that will break the game or remove the challenge. We're asking for an incentive to perform well. Whatever that incentive may be is up to SE.

[Ragmar]

I'm all for allowing challenging content and greater rewards just not special rewards such as (rewarding hardcore with +1 versions). You see by giving these rewards to hardcore you're making a tier that excludes less skilled players. If the reward was higher drop rates or more trial upgrades per kill then in the end it would balance out. Giving special rewards to elites poisons the well for others in the game.

Why does it poison the well? Because, to drink from the elite pool you need to have elite immunity to drink it's waters. Everyone who isn't worthy (Less skilled) is poisoned by it.

I hear it all the time from players, GO EMP/RELIC weapon or GTFO.

The higher tier more desireable rewards does not exclude anyone. Everyone is able to attempt it. Thier own personal limitations exclude them if anything. To make it so no one is poisoned from the elite pool new characters would have to start FFXi lvl 99 all jobs with all gear, weapons, clears, quests, blah blah blah. Why? Because otherwise someone is always going to have something someone else has. Someone is always going to say something is too hard or requires too much time. Whose to say the lvl 99 player with limited gear and skill is more deserving than the lvl 1 player who just started. You can't please everyone but you can do the fair thing and allow everyone the same chance to participate and leave it up to them to succeed or fail. Failing provides teaching experiences and allows people to develop skills which then allow them to succeed. I truely believe there are very few people who, with some experience, cannot succeed in every FFXI content. At 75 cap it only required you have the right jobs, and the players playing those jobs had specific skill sets. No new group of players that didnt understand a HNMs AI was going to walk in on SMN burned lvl 75 jobs and kill even lowly little Fafnir. Oh the spike flails would be glorious.

[Sarick]

The higher tier more desireable rewards does not exclude anyone. Everyone is able to attempt it. Thier own personal limitations exclude them if anything.

The answer is still no. I gave a solution to fix it. If the lower tier normal players don't get a chance at the same items then it's unbalanced.

Listen, you can't understand this, the complexity seems beyond your understanding. The advanced hardcore does get better rewards. Think about it like this, if you fight an enemy that drops say twilight mail at 5% on normal mode and 25% on hardcore mode then the person doing the fight in hard mode has a GREATER reward possibility. Refer to quote #1 at the end of this post.

Special items aren't needed to supplement the difficulty. The only reason someone would want this is to show off themselves. Like Frank said if this is your goal make the damn armor another color. Giving it higher stats to make you better in turn makes you look weaker because your using the hard mode to make future fights easier mode. It's a contradiction of logic.

You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that your going to be getting better rewards faster then Joe pink if you beat something in hard mode. Just because Joe pink can get it in easier mode from luck or hard work at a lower tier, it shouldn't make it less rewarding for you and your piers if the gear is still awesome sauce. Refer to quote #1 at the end of this post.

What you promote is in fact something that limits others so they need to do hardcore mode or GTFO. You see why your logic is so flawed. If Joe pink can't get it then it's merely an epen's piece for the upper echelon of the user base. This is why it excludes people which you cleverly stated you didn't want. Refer to quote #2 and #3 at the end of this post.

On a final note.. Please start paragraphing your WALL-O-TEXT, I might not have the best English or grammar skills but, I do seriously try to make things as understandable and convenient as possible to read. SEE all the edits?

--- Relevance to Original Post ---

I think a basic but workable idea to fix the problem this creates, for those of us who want a more challenging FFXI experience, is a difficutly setting with scaled rewards.

I mean it just makes sense that the reward should be reflective of the investment. This way those who require instant gratification and easy buttons should be happy with the current easy mode version of FFXI. Elitests would have engaging long term LOLhardcore content with rewarding gear for their efforts. Those who fall in between would be able to choose event by event which difficulty they wanted to participate in.

This is in no way meant to insult casuals either it's simply trying to fix FFXI so that all can enjoy it at their own level.

[Dreamin]

wow, this is still going on. I can only think of 1 thing tbh:

[Arcon]

The answer is still no. I gave a solution to fix it. If the lower tier normal players don't get a chance at the same items then it's unbalanced.

You never gave a solution. You told us to suck it. That is very different.

Listen, you can't understand this, the complexity seems beyond your understanding. The advanced hardcore does get better rewards. Think about it like this, if you fight an enemy that drops say twilight mail at 5% on normal mode and 25% on hardcore mode then the person doing the fight in hard mode has a GREATER reward possibility.

I already told you twice why it doesn't compare. And I gave reasons for it as well. Although the complexity of it seems to be beyond your understanding. Tl;dr, a greater reward possibility is inherently different from a greater reward. That's not up for debate. If you don't get that, you have no place arguing here.

Special items aren't needed to supplement the difficulty. The only reason someone would want this is to show off themselves. Like Frank said if this is your goal make the damn armor another color. Giving it higher stats to make you better in turn makes you look weaker because your using the hard mode to make future fights easier mode. It's a contradiction of logic.

I'll tell you what's a contradiction. You're telling people that we only want good items to show off. Then you tell us that we should just get the same gear in a different color, which is good for absolutely nothing other than showing off. Better gear has a purpose. Different colors don't. They are just to show people how good you are. That's the definition of showing off. You suggest this and at the same time belittle people for it. That's a contradiction.

(Also, logic can't be contradicted. Your perpetually bad choice of words does not help your agenda.)

Better gear does reduce the challenge quantitatively, but not qualitatively. Fights may go faster, require less cures, maybe even one less DD if everyone's decked out. That does not reduce the actual challenge though. You'd still have to have people who know their shit, who know what to do at all times, even when things go south. You still have to map out a strategy, know what the working setups are, assign people to different tasks, etc. Gear does not win fights, never. We never asked for content that requires the best gear. We asked for content that requires skill. And better gear does not remove the need for skill.

Don't believe me? Take an alliance with a VW mentality and pop JoL. Not AV, JoL. See how far they'll get.

You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that your going to be getting better rewards faster then Joe pink if you beat something in hard mode. Just because Joe pink can get it in easier mode from luck or hard work at a lower tier, it shouldn't make it less rewarding for you and your piers if the gear is still awesome sauce.

I bolded the terribly wrong part. You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that that's no incentive to play better. Also, it is still not a display of skill. I can farm Dynamis as fast as possible and it still requires no strategy, no reaction to bad situations (because there are none), no skill. When there's no challenge involved, every achievement seems lackluster.

What you promote is in fact something that limits others so they need to do hardcore mode or GTFO. You see why your logic is so flawed. If Joe pink can't get it then it's merely an epen's piece for the upper echelon of the user base. This is why it excludes people which you cleverly stated you didn't want.

But that's the thing you're too daft to understand: Joe pink can get it. No one is suggesting HNM-style competition that inherently excludes others. It's not that if some guy is a good player others can't be too. There's no limited supply of player skill in FFXI that some people just have more of. Everyone should get a chance, everyone should be able to. But everyone should be required to work for it, and I don't mean by grinding 10k of X or 30k of Y. I mean by improving so that they are good enough to get it eventually.

Your argument can be applied to the entire game: "That Lv35 guy can't do Dynamis? Then everybody doing it is excluding him, obviously." That statement is inherently flawed. He's just not on the right level to do it yet (in this case literally). The same can be said for Joe pink. No one is stopping him from participating. But he may not be on the level to win it yet. But no one's stopping him from getting there either. It may just require work on his part.

wow, this is still going on. I can only think of 1 thing tbh:

You obviously can't think much.

[Demon6324236]

You never gave a solution. You told us to suck it. That is very different.

Solution = People doing content on higher levels get higher drop rates, not unique stats or gear.

Which should be enough, if you fight Kaggen, you have 1% chance at a Mekira, you fight Kaggen Hard mode(no atma), you get a 5% chance, you fight Kaggen Very Hard mode(no atma or temps), you get 20% chance, or you fight Kaggen Insanity mode(no atma, temps, or 2-hour abilities) you get a 50% chance. Raising the chances of the rewards as you go up.

The other idea is special glows and such, which seems the more likely. SE would probably go the same route as RME, just make normal ones for everyone which alot of people will get, and then make glowing ones, which almost no one will get. The difference is that if you get a glow by this kind of content, you may not be laughed at like if you were to get an Afterglow.

Take an alliance with a VW mentality and pop JoL. Not AV, JoL. See how far they'll get.

I have been with an Alliance who went to kill AV, JoL was a simple zerg down with no special prep at all really, I mean a few people died but thats about all. AV was about the same as a standard run on Prov Watcher except we needed 1 SMN a party for PD, then cycled a BRD, COR, and had SCH for Embrava, after that the DDs just zerged AV down, not so hard.

What I just described btw is the VW mentality, get buffs, get invincible buff, zerg thing till it dies or you die 1st.

[Sarick]

You never gave a solution. You told us to suck it. That is very different.

Where exactly did I say "Suck it" in a phrase. It's stuff like this that you can't quote because I never said "Suck it" that may be up to your interpretation but saying words I didn't write shows you grasping at straws.

I already told you twice why it doesn't compare. And I gave reasons for it as well. Although the complexity of it seems to be beyond your understanding. Tl;dr, a greater reward possibility is inherently different from a greater reward. That's not up for debate. If you don't get that, you have no place arguing here.

I also said the reason I think it doesn't compare for you is because you feel inadequacy and need something special to make you feel more accomplished then Joe pink.

I'll tell you what's a contradiction. You're telling people that we only want good items to show off. Then you tell us that we should just get the same gear in a different color, which is good for absolutely nothing other than showing off. Better gear has a purpose. Different colors don't. They are just to show people how good you are. That's the definition of showing off. You suggest this and at the same time belittle people for it. That's a contradiction.

Why I could care less if you got a golden suit of armor to prance around in. I do see others biting their fingernails trying to get the +1 versions and frustration from the hardcore content they are unworthy of. Good going separate the less skilled and disabled players from feeling accomplished.

(Also, logic can't be contradicted. Your perpetually bad choice of words does not help your agenda.)

I changed my mind I'm totally not for this, at all then. Why it's people like you that are greedy and want more more more. Destructive greed that causes imbalance has shown me that If there are multiple paths like you ask such in your way then it would further separate the community into haves and have nots pre-abysea. The solution I gave wasn't a dead disagreement it was a compromise. Since you can't compromise then you want to throw it all out window by making an arse of yourself.

I bolded the terribly wrong part. You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that that's no incentive to play better. Also, it is still not a display of skill. I can farm Dynamis as fast as possible and it still requires no strategy, no reaction to bad situations (because there are none), no skill. When there's no challenge involved, every achievement seems lackluster.

Really, how many people have fully upgraded EMPs? Humm, I don't just mean the level 99 versions I mean the FULLY upgraded emps. Take a step back now and tell me do you have a fully upgraded emp? My guess is a fat no. Even the small numbers of players with hardcore skills don't have these. They are a lot of work.

My suggestion/compromise would help those hardcore get their gear just faster. If that's not good enough then what is? Have you been playing to much on the test server to quantify relevance of the live server from these leet items or is it you just need some emotional crutch?

But that's the thing you're too daft to understand: Joe pink can get it. No one is suggesting HNM-style competition that inherently excludes others. It's not that if some guy is a good player others can't be too. There's no limited supply of player skill in FFXI that some people just have more of. Everyone should get a chance, everyone should be able to. But everyone should be required to work for it, and I don't mean by grinding 10k of X or 30k of Y. I mean by improving so that they are good enough to get it eventually.

What are you smoking, Joe pink wouldn't get it, most people might just quit. I've had about 12 people tell me when the last phase of VW was put in they didn't like the direction SE was headed toward obsessively hardcore grinding content. You guessed it these people quit. So much for keeping the veterans with low drop rates for tougher enemies. Even with the (easy mode cheats) not everyone can win. Practice doesn't make perfect.

The truth is Joe Pink would get the big F'you when he ask to join these groups. You really want Joe pink to feel inferior because the players in this game can be real jerks to less skilled players. Go ahead try lie to everyone more. This is what ruins the game and causes people to quit over frustration.

You sit back with the jaded belief that the community wants content like this when the outcry from the majority says otherwise. You then insult me for standing up for what I think would harm the community. Good going, I insult you back, excellent compromise.

Your argument can be applied to the entire game: "That Lv35 guy can't do Dynamis? Then everybody doing it is excluding him, obviously." That statement is inherently flawed. He's just not on the right level to do it yet (in this case literally). The same can be said for Joe pink. No one is stopping him from participating. But he may not be on the level to win it yet. But no one's stopping him from getting there either. It may just require work on his part.

Poor example, in the game when leveling a character its power increases dynamically each new level. Under your fair system a players skill or natural ability has the ability to reach the same level in skill. This is flawed in itself because everyone learns differently and has inherent limits to their mastery of a given skill. Again, prove me wrong here.

You tell me if the people winning gold metals at the Olympics can be achieved by any random person off the street? No, they worked hard busted their butts and have skill sets that some would call superhuman. Joe pink is an average player and you're standing on your soap box saying I want better stuff to differentiate me from Joe pink so I'm more awesome gear wise. Joe pink doesn't have a chance in hell.

wow, this is still going on. I can only think of 1 thing tbh:

You obviously can't think much.

Waoh, this fella was just stating the obvious.

[Dreamin]

No, all my brain cells can come up with is '"nother thread turned into e-peed"! So, yeah, sorry if I can't think too much because it seems we keep turning every discussion into another e-peed discussion. When it come to e-peed, I have no answer and there's not much worth thinking about or discussing about other than to post some images and trolls the e-peeners for some entertainment value since that's at least fun to watch their responses.

[Ragmar]

The answer is still no. I gave a solution to fix it. If the lower tier normal players don't get a chance at the same items then it's unbalanced.

Listen, you can't understand this, the complexity seems beyond your understanding. The advanced hardcore does get better rewards. Think about it like this, if you fight an enemy that drops say twilight mail at 5% on normal mode and 25% on hardcore mode then the person doing the fight in hard mode has a GREATER reward possibility. Refer to quote #1 at the end of this post.

Special items aren't needed to supplement the difficulty. The only reason someone would want this is to show off themselves. Like Frank said if this is your goal make the damn armor another color. Giving it higher stats to make you better in turn makes you look weaker because your using the hard mode to make future fights easier mode. It's a contradiction of logic.

You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that your going to be getting better rewards faster then Joe pink if you beat something in hard mode. Just because Joe pink can get it in easier mode from luck or hard work at a lower tier, it shouldn't make it less rewarding for you and your piers if the gear is still awesome sauce. Refer to quote #1 at the end of this post.

What you promote is in fact something that limits others so they need to do hardcore mode or GTFO. You see why your logic is so flawed. If Joe pink can't get it then it's merely an epen's piece for the upper echelon of the user base. This is why it excludes people which you cleverly stated you didn't want. Refer to quote #2 and #3 at the end of this post.

On a final note.. Please start paragraphing your WALL-O-TEXT, I might not have the best English or grammar skills but, I do seriously try to make things as understandable and convenient as possible to read. SEE all the edits?

--- Relevance to Original Post ---

Increasing the drop rate 5% per tier does not mean that joe pink isnt going to get his RNG 1/1 while Mr. Hardcore elite won't go 1/100 (obvious exaggeration but point is still valid). You're asking for special treatment for people with less play time and less ability to complete content no matter what where as I am asking for content available for anyone. SE does not have to only make content my 5 year old can dominate nor should they.

As many times as you want to say its us who want gear to validate ourselves many of you have posted the fact and that is you who feel inadequate or envious when others can do things you cannot or have things you do not for whatever reason. That's like caping the score on a game like bubble breaker at 1 because if not everyone can reach that score they might feel inadequate.

You still can't see you are the one asking, by design, for others to have to play like you. There is always going to be someone with less play time or ability than someone else. You are asking for the bar to be set at your percieved level of casual when guess what there is always going to be someone who who percieves your level too high. This is how the game will be reverted to kindergarden levels, because someone will always think the game is too hard or takes an excessive amount of time.

You keep taking about "EVERYONE should be able to have exactly the same things" and under my suggestion they "can" have them. It is their own choice and based on their own ability which determines what gear they would have.

[Sarick]

Increasing the drop rate 5% per tier does not mean that joe pink isnt going to get his RNG 1/1 while Mr. Hardcore elite won't go 1/100 (obvious exaggeration but point is still valid). You're asking for special treatment for people with less play time and less ability to complete content no matter what where as I am asking for content available for anyone. SE does not have to only make content my 5 year old can dominate nor should they.
do not for whatever reason. That's like caping the score on a game like bubble breaker at 1 because if not everyone can reach that score they might feel inadequate.

You want hardcore content options then to be fair make easy content combat path/options to balance it out. Giving one side better statistical gear isn't balanced. Letting them have a higher drop rate should be what its about. SE knows this that's why they made drop rates so horrible for VW content. What's your clever retort for this, it's just my imagination or something maybe?