FFXI fixed!

[FrankReynolds]

If the "hardcore past" doesn't exist, then why does this thread exist? Why are there people in this very thread clamoring that everyone should be allowed the same gear that others can obtain from specific events? Surely it's not because all of the events are easy.

This thread exists because the OP is pissed that someone else showed up to the party wearing the same outfit as him. He thinks that if he get's them to build a shirt store just for him, then he will always be the cool kid at the party.

I don't find any of today's events to be all that different from the past in terms of difficulty. It's just the in your face RNG that has become a little too apparent.

They just weren't events where you could put on any sub par gear and expect excellent results, nor were they events where the casual could just jump in and put in work easy and be of benefit to their PT or Alliance-- they had to be decently geared and at least have an idea on what's going on.

With the exception of maybe Jailers, I have done every end game event that existed before abyssea on a sub par job at one point or another, and usually with several others in the same situation. It was never impossible. It just took longer. I think that is part of the problem now. A lot of people who thought they were awesome, really just had more uninterrupted play time than others. When they broke up events into 30 minute chunks, it turned out that they were not any better than the people who used to not have the cool gear. They just had more time. I didn't have a lot of relic gear for years because I just didn't have 4-5 hours where I could ignore the world for dynamis. When I changed my schedule and got time, guess what? it's not hard.

What is being pushed in this thread is an event(s) that cannot be completed without perfect gear / skills. It also bears mentioning that an event of that difficulty would probably be too hard for most of the people asking for it. So it's double lame in that sense. Within the confines of this games mechanics, it is almost impossible to make something like that. If there is a pattern, people will figure it out and repeat. If there is no pattern, there is no skill. Once 1 group has figured out how to beat something, luck and time are the only differentiating factors between who has the drop and who doesn't. Time is the only one that you get to influence. Hence it is the best basis for reward. Better players take less time to achieve things. That's the benefit to them.

Crafting is an entirely different matter at hand, esp when you speak of abjuration items. And yet, it leads back to one of my own previous arguments that I just stated-- there's nothing stopping anyone from buying whatever they want. They will just have to be well aware of the price they will have to pay to obtain.

That would completely defeat the purpose of these events. These people want something that a casual can not have. If every pink guy ups and buys the new yellow gear, then mister achievement gets sad because he looks just like them.

If that is the case and everything is easy both in past and present FFXI, I must ask you this question. Are you happy with FFXI? If you are happy with FFXI as it is, awesome bro. If not, Why are you still playing if you aren't happy?

I'm pretty happy right now. I have a lot of projects and I get to meet people socially now due to the nature of VW / Abyssea. I never really talked to a lot of people outside of my shell before that because I was always farming stuff with the same few people.

[Ragmar]

This thread exists because the OP is pissed that someone else showed up to the party wearing the same outfit as him. He thinks that if he get's them to build a shirt store just for him, then he will always be the cool kid at the party.

I don't find any of today's events to be all that different from the past in terms of difficulty. It's just the in your face RNG that has become a little too apparent.



With the exception of maybe Jailers, I have done every end game event that existed before abyssea on a sub par job at one point or another, and usually with several others in the same situation. It was never impossible. It just took longer. I think that is part of the problem now. A lot of people who thought they were awesome, really just had more uninterrupted play time than others. When they broke up events into 30 minute chunks, it turned out that they were not any better than the people who used to not have the cool gear. They just had more time. I didn't have a lot of relic gear for years because I just didn't have 4-5 hours where I could ignore the world for dynamis. When I changed my schedule and got time, guess what? it's not hard.

What is being pushed in this thread is an event(s) that cannot be completed without perfect gear / skills. It also bears mentioning that an event of that difficulty would probably be too hard for most of the people asking for it. So it's double lame in that sense. Within the confines of this games mechanics, it is almost impossible to make something like that. If there is a pattern, people will figure it out and repeat. If there is no pattern, there is no skill. Once 1 group has figured out how to beat something, luck and time are the only differentiating factors between who has the drop and who doesn't. Time is the only one that you get to influence. Hence it is the best basis for reward. Better players take less time to achieve things. That's the benefit to them.



That would completely defeat the purpose of these events. These people want something that a casual can not have. If every pink guy ups and buys the new yellow gear, then mister achievement gets sad because he looks just like them.



I'm pretty happy right now. I have a lot of projects and I get to meet people socially now due to the nature of VW / Abyssea. I never really talked to a lot of people outside of my shell before that because I was always farming stuff with the same few people.

Actually no, the OP was because I got sick of every thread being posted, by the same 5 people mind you, asking for every aspect of the game to be reverted to facebook levels because they want everyone to be limited to playing to their standards. Again no one in favor is trying to exclude anyone we just want challenging content with rewards that reflect the content we enjoy. I even went as far as to say make said content easy peasy lemon squeezy so that anyone and their retarded dog could breeze through it. I simply asked that we be allowed to up the difficulty and have gear with minimal upgrades because if you do harder content shouldnt you get a higher level reward? Otherwise why dont we just allow lvl one mobs to drop any gear in the game. It's those who fear they are going to be left out placing such value on gear even going to the extreme of saying complete strangers could only want the gear because they are ego freaks and need this gear to feel better about themselves while admitting they only want this gear because they feel inadequate for not having what someone else has. I play less than 10 hours a week mon-fri doing random things helping my friends where I can. When I get more play time on weekends I would like content that challenges me. I don't want SE to remove content for casuals, however it seems the only reason you are against them adding content for less casual players is penis envy. The only way someone can "lord gear" over you is if you value it or their opinions of you so much that you actually allow what they have or what they think of you to change the way you feel about yourself.

Not all content is made easier with time either. Only the lvl cap increase made pre abyssea content easier. In any MMO there is an expectation that players will become more skilled with time which will allow them to engage in and complete content previously beyond their ability. I can't think of anything currently exhisting in FFXI that limits anyone from attempting to complete. The only people asking for anyone to be left out are those asking for content not to exceed their own personal limitations which in effect then eliminates rewarding content for those who may have less personal limitations. IE you dont want people to be able to have things you cant because you dont feel its fair even though you are given the same exact accessability to the same exact content.

[Sarick]

Actually no, the OP was because I got sick of every thread being posted, by the same 5 people mind you, asking for every aspect of the game to be reverted to facebook levels because they want everyone to be limited to playing to their standards. Again no one in favor is trying to exclude anyone we just want challenging content with rewards that reflect the content we enjoy. I even went as far as to say make said content easy peasy lemon squeezy so that anyone and their retarded dog could breeze through it. I simply asked that we be allowed to up the difficulty and have gear with minimal upgrades because if you do harder content shouldnt you get a higher level reward?

I'm all for allowing challenging content and greater rewards just not special rewards such as (rewarding hardcore with +1 versions). You see by giving these rewards to hardcore you're making a tier that excludes less skilled players. If the reward was higher drop rates or more trial upgrades per kill then in the end it would balance out. Giving special rewards to elites poisons the well for others in the game.

Why does it poison the well? Because, to drink from the elite pool you need to have elite immunity to drink it's waters. Everyone who isn't worthy (Less skilled) is poisoned by it.

I hear it all the time from players, GO EMP/RELIC weapon or GTFO.

[Ragmar]

I'm all for allowing challenging content and greater rewards just not special rewards such as (rewarding hardcore with +1 versions). You see by giving these rewards to hardcore you're making a tier that excludes less skilled players. If the reward was higher drop rates or more trial upgrades per kill then in the end it would balance out. Giving special rewards to elites poisons the well for others in the game.

Why does it poison the well? Because, to drink from the elite pool you need to have elite immunity to drink it's waters. Everyone who isn't worthy (Less skilled) is poisoned by it.

I hear it all the time from players, GO EMP/RELIC weapon or GTFO.

The higher tier more desireable rewards does not exclude anyone. Everyone is able to attempt it. Thier own personal limitations exclude them if anything. To make it so no one is poisoned from the elite pool new characters would have to start FFXi lvl 99 all jobs with all gear, weapons, clears, quests, blah blah blah. Why? Because otherwise someone is always going to have something someone else has. Someone is always going to say something is too hard or requires too much time. Whose to say the lvl 99 player with limited gear and skill is more deserving than the lvl 1 player who just started. You can't please everyone but you can do the fair thing and allow everyone the same chance to participate and leave it up to them to succeed or fail. Failing provides teaching experiences and allows people to develop skills which then allow them to succeed. I truely believe there are very few people who, with some experience, cannot succeed in every FFXI content. At 75 cap it only required you have the right jobs, and the players playing those jobs had specific skill sets. No new group of players that didnt understand a HNMs AI was going to walk in on SMN burned lvl 75 jobs and kill even lowly little Fafnir. Oh the spike flails would be glorious.

[Shoko]

I can agree with most of these sentiments as well. Much of the older content really was not super hard, just required more time to eventually beat out the RNG and also other lotters in the same group(s). However, some of the events are specifically tailored to players who had to be decently geared to obtain good results. Sure, one or two people could be sub/below par geared for old 75 Einherjar, but then everyone else pretty much had to make up for their poor gear by being very well geared themselves (after all, it was content based around killing many many mobs AND a Mega Boss; Odin just requires decently geared ranged attackers, and/or BRD rotation of players). No poorly geared or prepared alliance ever beat T2 and Odin chambers of [75] Einherjar, and many instances of this happening was clearly seen (on Carbuncle at least). 3-4 man old Salvage basically required your DDs to be well built to climb and take on everything going up, as well as the Chariots. It also required people to be physically attentive and aware players as well.

No one here is arguing for content that requires the most absolute perfect gear to complete, only the fact that it should be tailored to those players that have geared themselves very well (as well as competent merits). I've stated a number of times that this could be any player, casual or hardcore.

No one is also asking for content that is ever changing and always hard either. We love to have puzzles that are figured out after a specific amount of time. That's one of the reasons why people enjoyed the hell out of Salvage, for example (minus the absurdly low drop rate). We all know the AV fiasco, and no one cares to remember about it, as we still don't know all of the stipulations to the mob in question after 29% HP, however vague or obvious to SE.

[Dreamin]

wow, this is still going on. I can only think of 1 thing tbh:

[Arcon]

The answer is still no. I gave a solution to fix it. If the lower tier normal players don't get a chance at the same items then it's unbalanced.

You never gave a solution. You told us to suck it. That is very different.

Listen, you can't understand this, the complexity seems beyond your understanding. The advanced hardcore does get better rewards. Think about it like this, if you fight an enemy that drops say twilight mail at 5% on normal mode and 25% on hardcore mode then the person doing the fight in hard mode has a GREATER reward possibility.

I already told you twice why it doesn't compare. And I gave reasons for it as well. Although the complexity of it seems to be beyond your understanding. Tl;dr, a greater reward possibility is inherently different from a greater reward. That's not up for debate. If you don't get that, you have no place arguing here.

Special items aren't needed to supplement the difficulty. The only reason someone would want this is to show off themselves. Like Frank said if this is your goal make the damn armor another color. Giving it higher stats to make you better in turn makes you look weaker because your using the hard mode to make future fights easier mode. It's a contradiction of logic.

I'll tell you what's a contradiction. You're telling people that we only want good items to show off. Then you tell us that we should just get the same gear in a different color, which is good for absolutely nothing other than showing off. Better gear has a purpose. Different colors don't. They are just to show people how good you are. That's the definition of showing off. You suggest this and at the same time belittle people for it. That's a contradiction.

(Also, logic can't be contradicted. Your perpetually bad choice of words does not help your agenda.)

Better gear does reduce the challenge quantitatively, but not qualitatively. Fights may go faster, require less cures, maybe even one less DD if everyone's decked out. That does not reduce the actual challenge though. You'd still have to have people who know their shit, who know what to do at all times, even when things go south. You still have to map out a strategy, know what the working setups are, assign people to different tasks, etc. Gear does not win fights, never. We never asked for content that requires the best gear. We asked for content that requires skill. And better gear does not remove the need for skill.

Don't believe me? Take an alliance with a VW mentality and pop JoL. Not AV, JoL. See how far they'll get.

You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that your going to be getting better rewards faster then Joe pink if you beat something in hard mode. Just because Joe pink can get it in easier mode from luck or hard work at a lower tier, it shouldn't make it less rewarding for you and your piers if the gear is still awesome sauce.

I bolded the terribly wrong part. You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that that's no incentive to play better. Also, it is still not a display of skill. I can farm Dynamis as fast as possible and it still requires no strategy, no reaction to bad situations (because there are none), no skill. When there's no challenge involved, every achievement seems lackluster.

What you promote is in fact something that limits others so they need to do hardcore mode or GTFO. You see why your logic is so flawed. If Joe pink can't get it then it's merely an epen's piece for the upper echelon of the user base. This is why it excludes people which you cleverly stated you didn't want.

But that's the thing you're too daft to understand: Joe pink can get it. No one is suggesting HNM-style competition that inherently excludes others. It's not that if some guy is a good player others can't be too. There's no limited supply of player skill in FFXI that some people just have more of. Everyone should get a chance, everyone should be able to. But everyone should be required to work for it, and I don't mean by grinding 10k of X or 30k of Y. I mean by improving so that they are good enough to get it eventually.

Your argument can be applied to the entire game: "That Lv35 guy can't do Dynamis? Then everybody doing it is excluding him, obviously." That statement is inherently flawed. He's just not on the right level to do it yet (in this case literally). The same can be said for Joe pink. No one is stopping him from participating. But he may not be on the level to win it yet. But no one's stopping him from getting there either. It may just require work on his part.

wow, this is still going on. I can only think of 1 thing tbh:

You obviously can't think much.

[Demon6324236]

You never gave a solution. You told us to suck it. That is very different.

Solution = People doing content on higher levels get higher drop rates, not unique stats or gear.

Which should be enough, if you fight Kaggen, you have 1% chance at a Mekira, you fight Kaggen Hard mode(no atma), you get a 5% chance, you fight Kaggen Very Hard mode(no atma or temps), you get 20% chance, or you fight Kaggen Insanity mode(no atma, temps, or 2-hour abilities) you get a 50% chance. Raising the chances of the rewards as you go up.

The other idea is special glows and such, which seems the more likely. SE would probably go the same route as RME, just make normal ones for everyone which alot of people will get, and then make glowing ones, which almost no one will get. The difference is that if you get a glow by this kind of content, you may not be laughed at like if you were to get an Afterglow.

Take an alliance with a VW mentality and pop JoL. Not AV, JoL. See how far they'll get.

I have been with an Alliance who went to kill AV, JoL was a simple zerg down with no special prep at all really, I mean a few people died but thats about all. AV was about the same as a standard run on Prov Watcher except we needed 1 SMN a party for PD, then cycled a BRD, COR, and had SCH for Embrava, after that the DDs just zerged AV down, not so hard.

What I just described btw is the VW mentality, get buffs, get invincible buff, zerg thing till it dies or you die 1st.

[Sarick]

You never gave a solution. You told us to suck it. That is very different.

Where exactly did I say "Suck it" in a phrase. It's stuff like this that you can't quote because I never said "Suck it" that may be up to your interpretation but saying words I didn't write shows you grasping at straws.

I already told you twice why it doesn't compare. And I gave reasons for it as well. Although the complexity of it seems to be beyond your understanding. Tl;dr, a greater reward possibility is inherently different from a greater reward. That's not up for debate. If you don't get that, you have no place arguing here.

I also said the reason I think it doesn't compare for you is because you feel inadequacy and need something special to make you feel more accomplished then Joe pink.

I'll tell you what's a contradiction. You're telling people that we only want good items to show off. Then you tell us that we should just get the same gear in a different color, which is good for absolutely nothing other than showing off. Better gear has a purpose. Different colors don't. They are just to show people how good you are. That's the definition of showing off. You suggest this and at the same time belittle people for it. That's a contradiction.

Why I could care less if you got a golden suit of armor to prance around in. I do see others biting their fingernails trying to get the +1 versions and frustration from the hardcore content they are unworthy of. Good going separate the less skilled and disabled players from feeling accomplished.

(Also, logic can't be contradicted. Your perpetually bad choice of words does not help your agenda.)

I changed my mind I'm totally not for this, at all then. Why it's people like you that are greedy and want more more more. Destructive greed that causes imbalance has shown me that If there are multiple paths like you ask such in your way then it would further separate the community into haves and have nots pre-abysea. The solution I gave wasn't a dead disagreement it was a compromise. Since you can't compromise then you want to throw it all out window by making an arse of yourself.

I bolded the terribly wrong part. You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that that's no incentive to play better. Also, it is still not a display of skill. I can farm Dynamis as fast as possible and it still requires no strategy, no reaction to bad situations (because there are none), no skill. When there's no challenge involved, every achievement seems lackluster.

Really, how many people have fully upgraded EMPs? Humm, I don't just mean the level 99 versions I mean the FULLY upgraded emps. Take a step back now and tell me do you have a fully upgraded emp? My guess is a fat no. Even the small numbers of players with hardcore skills don't have these. They are a lot of work.

My suggestion/compromise would help those hardcore get their gear just faster. If that's not good enough then what is? Have you been playing to much on the test server to quantify relevance of the live server from these leet items or is it you just need some emotional crutch?

But that's the thing you're too daft to understand: Joe pink can get it. No one is suggesting HNM-style competition that inherently excludes others. It's not that if some guy is a good player others can't be too. There's no limited supply of player skill in FFXI that some people just have more of. Everyone should get a chance, everyone should be able to. But everyone should be required to work for it, and I don't mean by grinding 10k of X or 30k of Y. I mean by improving so that they are good enough to get it eventually.

What are you smoking, Joe pink wouldn't get it, most people might just quit. I've had about 12 people tell me when the last phase of VW was put in they didn't like the direction SE was headed toward obsessively hardcore grinding content. You guessed it these people quit. So much for keeping the veterans with low drop rates for tougher enemies. Even with the (easy mode cheats) not everyone can win. Practice doesn't make perfect.

The truth is Joe Pink would get the big F'you when he ask to join these groups. You really want Joe pink to feel inferior because the players in this game can be real jerks to less skilled players. Go ahead try lie to everyone more. This is what ruins the game and causes people to quit over frustration.

You sit back with the jaded belief that the community wants content like this when the outcry from the majority says otherwise. You then insult me for standing up for what I think would harm the community. Good going, I insult you back, excellent compromise.

Your argument can be applied to the entire game: "That Lv35 guy can't do Dynamis? Then everybody doing it is excluding him, obviously." That statement is inherently flawed. He's just not on the right level to do it yet (in this case literally). The same can be said for Joe pink. No one is stopping him from participating. But he may not be on the level to win it yet. But no one's stopping him from getting there either. It may just require work on his part.

Poor example, in the game when leveling a character its power increases dynamically each new level. Under your fair system a players skill or natural ability has the ability to reach the same level in skill. This is flawed in itself because everyone learns differently and has inherent limits to their mastery of a given skill. Again, prove me wrong here.

You tell me if the people winning gold metals at the Olympics can be achieved by any random person off the street? No, they worked hard busted their butts and have skill sets that some would call superhuman. Joe pink is an average player and you're standing on your soap box saying I want better stuff to differentiate me from Joe pink so I'm more awesome gear wise. Joe pink doesn't have a chance in hell.

wow, this is still going on. I can only think of 1 thing tbh:

You obviously can't think much.

Waoh, this fella was just stating the obvious.

[Dreamin]

No, all my brain cells can come up with is '"nother thread turned into e-peed"! So, yeah, sorry if I can't think too much because it seems we keep turning every discussion into another e-peed discussion. When it come to e-peed, I have no answer and there's not much worth thinking about or discussing about other than to post some images and trolls the e-peeners for some entertainment value since that's at least fun to watch their responses.