FFXI fixed!

[Sarick]

I dont see why you compare this with the olympics (and please the special olympics?), thats a form of contest where you dont join if you're not part of the top in that field already, and also there can only be one winner in the olympics. Its not like only one person on a server is entitled to the best gear, everyone can get it if they want. Most of us who are in favour of more challenging content have stated that it should be accessible for all who are willing to make an effort. it sounds like some of you would rather see this game turn into the special olympics where everyone gets a medal at the end of the run.

Bit off topic here cause this thread wasnt about people being pink:
#1 Personality, I dont see what personality has to do with people not getting out of their pink gear. this is an MMO, being social seems like one of the basic aspects of these kind of games. Everyone can get into an ls, or build a group of friends willing to farm some seals so you can get AF3+1.
#2 Skills have very little to do with a game like ff, you learn your JA/MA/WS and know what to use in which situation I dont call that skill thats just paying attention, you fail once maybe next time will be better and learn from your mistakes. Skill in this game can be molded into any form.
#3 Time limits, getting AF3 isnt that time demanding, getting some pieces of AF1 ask for more time to get then AF3+1
#4 Luck... Well you got me there but those people you call elitist also have to work with the luck factor

Conclusion, there is no reason why someone cant get AF3+1. There's a big difference between someone joining an event in pink cause he just finished lvling his job and hasnt come around to get it and people who show up every week in that same pink outfit.

First off Joe Pink is a symbolism. Second the people who are lower tier aren't all about pink gear. It's also the weapons and other limiting factors.

Last and most important. If the special gear isn't such a big deal why would it only be reserved for the hardcore? You see where I'm going here? If they want special gear then on top of it being in the Jimmy Leet pool it should also be in the lesser pool at a lower drop rate. That's about as fair as it gets. Since you call yourself a Joe Pink I find it a bid odd that you'd defend this at all.


OH, I see your Arcons girl, buddy, mule. It explains everything.

Had to comment on this.

#1 Personality, I dont see what personality has to do with people not getting out of their pink gear.

It has all the relevance in the world. If people don't like you or think poorly of you utility is lost when you ask to participate. Everything in that list I wrote was summed up to it's most minor core. I didn't feel like defining every detail associated with each bullet point. I assumed people reading them would branch out each point at a higher level.

[vienne]

OH, I see your Arcons girl, buddy, mule. It explains everything.

Had to comment on this.


It has all the relevance in the world. If people don't like you or think poorly of you utility is lost when you ask to participate. Everything in that list I wrote was summed up to it's most minor core. I didn't feel like defining every detail associated with each bullet point. I assumed people reading them would branch out each point at a higher level.

I'll comment on your personality thing first, how many times do people have to point it out for you? getting AF3+1 can be done solo (and yes even in pink) or if thats to slow for you, you only need one person to help you to get seals... I mean seriously if the whole server thinks you're a douche it could be a problem but i dont think there are alot of people out there who got blisted by an entire server. 1 friend thats all you need if your personality cant handle that well then maybe an MMO isnt your kind of game and you're better of living in a cave.

And then me being arcon's "girl/buddy/mule" i'm a living breathing person with my own personality and my own thoughts and referring to me as his girl is quite sexist in my eyes. We happen to be in the same ls and we happen to think very differently about many things in this game but on the factor challenge we agree. How low can you go to bring this up in a discussion...? To reply with something Arcon said and which you enjoy quoting too :
This is irrelevant and only shows what kind of person you are, not me. It comes over to me that because I know Arcon I'm not entitled to an opinion and should not voice my thoughts on this forum.

[Komori]

But not every casual will always work towards long-term goals such as a relic or empyrean. I don't have any currently, but I have done considerable progress towards Almace and should have one soon. As BLU is one of my favorite jobs. And I also plan to do a Vere, Twash, Mandau and Ragnarok all in due time but I want to take my time and have fun doing so instead of mindlessly grinding for a week or two for the empys and a few months for said relics.

[Demon6324236]

But not every casual will always work towards long-term goals such as a relic or empyrean. I don't have any currently, but I have done considerable progress towards Almace and should have one soon. As BLU is one of my favorite jobs. And I also plan to do a Vere, Twash, Mandau and Ragnarok all in due time but I want to take my time and have fun doing so instead of mindlessly grinding for a week or two for the empys and a few months for said relics.

Sounds alot like me on this aspect. I could have in all honesty finished my Excalibur for my RDM months ago by just Fell Cleaving, it would have taken me about a good 2~3 weeks at most, instead it has taken me 6 months because I have been going slow with it. Rather than bore myself out of my mine simply for a weapon which I would look at as an annoyance to obtain rather than a powerful tool of death that I would then wield.

[Komori]

I don't know why peopel don't get +1 at the very least. None of my jobs have been pink since the cap first raised, even my COR12 and RNG7 have full +1 with 3/5 or 2/5 +2 already. All jobs I level have weapons to level into as well, I do the gearing before the job can wear such armor. Why others don't do this, I don't know. It literally takes an hour or two altogether to get a piece of +1 or +2.

[Shoko]

I know of the hyper minority type of casual player that Sarick is referring too. They are the types of players that moan and complain about the general difficulty of events to get top gear, and yet will put in zero effort. They are also more than likely to be super reclusive and won't join LSes devoted to events. These same players won't put in the effort to get the most basic of high level equipment, even if it's for their main job.

They make up just about 1 or 2% of the general FFXI population over all, if not less.

[Sarick]

They make up just about 1 or 2% of the general FFXI population over all, if not less.

(I'm going to respond to this Arcon style in my own words.)

This is irrelevant those are made up numbers.

[Arcon]

But even for lol monsters like Kaggen and Akvan etc. I've been turned down for not having any empyreans or relics. So if I get turned down for "easy peasy" content for having good gear other than nyzul or empy/relic. Joe/Jane Pink will never, ever get to see the content your asking for.

Yup, been trying to say this the last (lost count) pages.

Only one crucial thing you're missing: that's content which isn't cleared with your linkshell but with random people. Random people will always want X of this and Y of that, to make sure their alliance performs as well as it can under the premise that you get a bunch of complete strangers under one leadership to kill a somewhat challenging NM.

However, it's very different when you do it with your own LS. I'm not talking about HNMLS, I'm talking about your everyday casual linkshell. Friends and family. People who will want to play with you regardless of gear. And yes, I cannot disagree that if absolutely everyone in that LS sucks then they will have problems completing that content. But if even one person is skilled in the bunch they can help the others out. They can educate them and show them what to do. And unless you found a group of ~20 completely ignorant and slow people, then you'll get better as a group. I know this because I've been through it more than once. Four times, to be precise. In my very first linkshell, in my second and longest lasting linkshell, in my Dynamis linkshell (which was a very good example of that) and in my current linkshell again.

And from the hundreds of random people I've played with and helped with and tried to teach about the game, even despite meeting some sad displays of lack of mental direction, I've still seen them move ahead and most of them got to participate in events, either with us or other people.

But not every casual will always work towards long-term goals such as a relic or empyrean.

So you complain that someone who doesn't want to invest time in easy to obtain items won't get hard to obtain items?

And I also plan to do a Vere, Twash, Mandau and Ragnarok all in due time but I want to take my time and have fun doing so instead of mindlessly grinding for a week or two for the empys and a few months for said relics.

So you rather mindlessly grind for months with some idle chatter along the way? Personally I don't see the benefit, but to each their own. I don't think this applies to the majority though. The casual people I know who do relics prefer to get them over with as soon as they can. The others are usually not bothered enough to even try seriously and just take it on a case-by-case basis. There's hardly any middle ground.

(Oh and you can still FC with a linkshell. We also did that for many people in our LS.)

Y#1 Personality. (Social compatibility)
#2 Skill or natural limits.
#3 Time limits and/or schedule
#4 Luck

Those factors already limit them, and they always will, in any game ever.

If you don't want lesser skilled players (and by skilled, I mean people who don't have an shell full of relic wielders at their disposal) from getting the gear, then you are debating the wrong person.

I never really argued your opinion and I don't intend to. Most of what you say is dead on. You just seem to think I want content like Legion v5, that absolutely no one except the absolutely most hardcore people are able to clear. Which is not the case. I want reasonably hard content. Content that is challenging yet not out of reach for anyone.

I'm not even sure what your arguing for anymore...? It sounds like you like the content already in the game and you don't want gear that normal players can't get.

I specifically mentioned both of these things, twice. I said I was happy with the game as it is, if it wasn't I wouldn't be playing. Neo-Einherjar and Legion are great additions. The only reason I'm not doing them with my casual shell is not that I don't wanna try it, but because people were less and less interested and I couldn't muster up the people to actually do the events. It was a simple manpower requirement we couldn't match.

Which is why, in my previous post, I said that I'd approve of a scaling mechanism. Something that scales in difficulty with the number of people you bring. That would definitely bring my LS up to that content as well. Sadly though, I don't believe SE can pull that off with any reasonable result.

I'm not sure why any of this comes as a shock to you, this is nothing new. I said all of that in previous posts.

Which is the opposite of what the op is asking for. If all you want is less RNG based crap, just say it, because that is not what the OP wants. He is trying to play innocent, but his motivation is to draw a firm line between who he sees as entitled and the unworthy.

I also said that I don't know the OP or his motivations, and I'm not agreeing with him, I just found his proposal interesting. And I didn't (and still don't) read what you do into his posts. Sure, some of his posts seem a bit overly aggressive, but I'm willing to attribute that to being provoked by mindlessly insulting replies of certain ignorant parties on the other end of the spectrum.

Bear in mind, that the gear doesn't just have to be "Good enough" to get by, it has to be impressive enough to get an ally to accept you.

As I said above, that's the VW mentality. Shout groups of complete strangers. They don't know you, so they don't know how you perform. Having a relic or empyrean does not guarantee you performing well, but it does indicate that you're invested in your job which increases the likelihood that you're a better player. That's why they're asking for those things. This does not apply to a social linkshell, and I do believe that that content should be able to be cleared by social players with practice and patience.

Since you call yourself a Joe Pink I find it a bid odd that you'd defend this at all.

I can tell you why. Because she was in my previous linkshell and is in my current one and she can confirm what I said. Casual people are able to clear hard content if they don't approach it alone. I told you we had almost exclusively casual players (we didn't have any relic players until the end of the 75 era, when one of us got it). Yet we cleared almost everything level 75 had to offer (except HNM, which we didn't even attempt due to competition and spawn hours), with the aforementioned casuals. We did all Dynamis zones, killed everything in sea (except AV) and sky, every ZNM (except PW), Limbus all the time and had several smaller statics for Assaults, Nyzul and Salvage runs. And I know of plenty other linkshells who did similar things.

OH, I see your Arcons girl, buddy, mule. It explains everything.

You must be really desperate to grasp at straws like that. You'd take any excuse to invalidate our opinions, wouldn't you? Not that it would invalidate them if she was any of that, but I know you'd like to think so. Sadly, I can't find an equally convenient explanation for your lack of logical comprehension.

All she's done is give you an example of exactly what I meant. But it seems you don't deal well with criticism.

[Sarick]

I can tell you why. Because she was in my previous linkshell and is in my current one and she can confirm what I said.

All she's done is give you an example of exactly what I meant. But it seems you don't deal well with criticism.

I'm not an idiot, she just started posting recently, In your LS and same nation area. As for not dealing with criticism you speak from experience. I used to have some respect for you Arcon but after this topic you threw all that out the window.

Nothing that's being ask on this said of the field is going to topple your grand agenda. You sir can't compromise even the slightest this means you have an issue. Look at all my post I'm up to 88% compatible with your agenda that's not a low F'n number. That leaves a mere 12% we're disagreeing with.

#1 The disagreement is if it's in Jimmy Leet pool it should also be in Joe Pink pool.

#2 If you want special gear and it can't be in the Joe Pink pool then it should be limited to a glow like effect.

#3 Higher rewards for more challenging content meaning that advanced mode has higher drop rate of the same items with inclusion of a 100% drop that's used for high ranking emp upgrades..

This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt you are purely in a green state and trying to be selfish. Seeing as you had to call on friends or alts to defend your side is just pathetic. Everyone who's been against the original poster has made enough arguments to confirm the negatives and the over all agenda behind the request. His attitude is bad his arguments aren't good and he's also unwilling to compromise just like you. Two peas in a pot.

So you are by definition arguing to make things not equal in a sense that only a minority can get them. I understand completely that you want stuff others can't get that make you feel special, you're only human. Please understand this selfish greed is a powerful hard to control human nature to overcome.

[Arcon]

I'm not an idiot, she just started posting recently, In your LS and same nation area. As for not dealing with criticism you speak from experience. I used to have some respect for you Arcon but after this topic you threw all that out the window.

Her posting made you lose respect for me? Guess that makes sense for you.

Nothing that's being ask on this said of the field is going to topple your grand agenda. You sir can't compromise even the slightest this means you have an issue. Look at all my post I'm up to 88% compatible with your agenda that's not a low F'n number. That leaves a mere 12% we're disagreeing with.

Stop with the useless numbers. And don't use the excuse that the other side is also using them, it wasn't me, so don't pull this one on me. I'm not compromising because no compromise is offered. And I assume that no comprise is offered because you still don't understand what I want. Every post again, over and over, you keep repeating some stuff that I never said or asked for and when I try to tell you why you completely ignore it and just repeat the same garbage again.

#1 The disagreement is if it's in Jimmy Leet pool it should also be in Joe Pink pool.

If he works for it, sure.

#2 If you want special gear and it can't be in the Joe Pink pool then it should be limited to a glow like effect.

It should be in everyone's pool. And I already said that I don't particularly mind that either, but that that's not a solution, because it does not address our problem. Trophy items are just for showing off, and I don't care for that (despite what you like to proclaim).

#3 Higher rewards for more challenging content meaning that advanced mode has higher drop rate of the same items with inclusion of a 100% drop that's used for high ranking emp upgrades..

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. What do empyrean weapons have to do with this? Or are you saying that any challenging mob should also drop empyrean upgrade items? Seems a bit groundless, but whatever. I already explained that obtaining something faster is no reward at all. It does not introduce nor require skill.

As for the current system, since that was brought up earlier, no matter how skilled you are, you won't be able to kill Orthrus much faster than the next guy who just uses a weapon skill on a timer.

This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt you are purely in a green state and trying to be selfish. Seeing as you had to call on friends or alts to defend your side is just pathetic. Everyone who's been against the original poster has made enough arguments to confirm the negatives and the over all agenda behind the request. His attitude is bad his arguments aren't good and he's also unwilling to compromise just like you. Two peas in a pot.

I never called on anyone to do anything, because I didn't need to. Everything I said was spot on and even until now you've done nothing at all to disprove my arguments against you or your agenda. What's pathetic is that you're resorting to calling me a fraud by attacking my credibility (with no evidence) instead of my arguments. That is an indication that you've run out of things to say.

So you are by definition arguing to make things not equal in a sense that only a minority can get them. I understand completely that you want stuff others can't get that make you feel special, you're only human. Please understand this selfish greed is a powerful hard to control human nature to overcome.

You understand nothing. You have the comprehension capacity of a three year old. You don't even know how to argue properly. You throw around words that make you sound smart with no context and inappropriate usage just for the sake of sounding educated. Do you feel that that will carry more weight than sound arguments themselves? In this paragraph alone you have demonstrated that you have no idea what "by definition" means, what "equality" is and that you didn't grasp a thing of what I've been trying to convey. I specifically stated repeatedly that I do not want to exclude anyone and that everyone should be able to access and the content and get a chance to win it. I said that the content should not require best of gear but strategy and tactics instead. I said that it should scale with the number of members, so people can go with their friends if they can't find a full alliance or don't feel like they'll be able to join an endgame LS for this purpose. You addressed none of these things. You just spout groundless statements about how it is unjust and how I'm just being elitist and selfish, with no reasons, no explanation and no evidence. And it's getting really old.