FFXI fixed!

[Komori]

I understand what you meant Arcon. But I can assure you, SE will never make an event even of this difficulty caliber and it being 100% unless your hitting the very tippy top. But since they would be super buffing this piece of equipment since this event would be harder than anything currently ingame then it's pretty much a given they'd have to give it suberb stats to get anyone to do it, that's the only reason people do Neo Nyzul. Because it's gear pretty much outdoes anything else we have right now. And because of these stats; SE would more than likely in return make it a very small drop rate and we would be in the same boat as before.

[Sarick]

I understand what you meant Arcon. But I can assure you, SE will never make an event even of this difficulty caliber and it being 100% unless your hitting the very tippy top. But since they would be super buffing this piece of equipment since this event would be harder than anything currently ingame then it's pretty much a given they'd have to give it suberb stats to get anyone to do it, that's the only reason people do Neo Nyzul. Because it's gear pretty much outdoes anything else we have right now. And because of these stats; SE would more than likely in return make it a very small drop rate and we would be in the same boat as before.

Did you like my last system, in the post I last created? I didn't see a like so I'm assuming you overlooked my post or found it's content of low quality. Yet again I agree with you here on scales of challenge/difficulty. You haven't been directly arguing against me so I'm unsure of your opinion/suggestion in my recent reply to Arcon.

I want you to help validate if my revised solution seems doable and fair to everyone. It's much like relic purchases but non-transferable.

[Arcon]

By responding in just does that make your points any more valid? You didn't bring anything to the table or offer something useful to compromise with the topic either. It appeared as a devote attempt toward a single direction. It also appeared as though the masses didn't exist or you simply didn't care about them.

I didn't offer a compromise because you've done nothing to convince me that this idea isn't perfectly valid. And the masses aren't arguing against me, you are. The masses are silently ignoring us both.

I don't deny this, but keep in mind it was intentional to find what makes you tick, so the idiot part is a misunderstanding on your part. I know exactly what I'm doing to test your resolve.

"I know I was being stupid, but I did it on purpose to test if you would realize I was being stupid!"

I disagree with placing fodder gear into the game. It just doesn't generate interest you think it does. Have you seen the lower tiers of Neo Nyzul gear? It's trash and worthless in comparison to gear of the same level. The only gear thats useful is from the highest floors. The rest is literally absolute junk.

You're completely out of your mind. The lower tier Nyzul gear is still good. Great even. So what if it doesn't compare to the full reward? If it did, why would anyone try to do it? Shoot for the top, but be awarded for what you achieve.

Under my revised suggestion everyone would still have a chance at the higher tier stuff for trying. Players who compete at the higher level and win would be rewarded with 100% and/or 100% items to be used upgrades for related content. Players who compete and fail still are rewarded in a different way. In my previous example I was for a drop bonus for higher tiers.

I want to hear why you would disagree any with this. I've written the core aspects and painted a picture as best I could without insulting you, implying personal bias or attacking your credibility. If you have a better solution or compromise lets hear it.

Your "revised suggestion" is the same crap that you've been trying to force-feed down my throat for the better part of a week. And I already said on the first few pages why it didn't compare. And several more times after that. It's the same "patience should substitute skill" philosophy you've been preaching all along in this thread, which is precisely what I took an issue with. It's nothing new. Zero compromise, the one thing you've been accusing me of for about twenty pages now.

I understand what you meant Arcon. But I can assure you, SE will never make an event even of this difficulty caliber and it being 100% unless your hitting the very tippy top. But since they would be super buffing this piece of equipment since this event would be harder than anything currently ingame then it's pretty much a given they'd have to give it suberb stats to get anyone to do it, that's the only reason people do Neo Nyzul. Because it's gear pretty much outdoes anything else we have right now. And because of these stats; SE would more than likely in return make it a very small drop rate and we would be in the same boat as before.

Why are you so sure? And even if you were, why shouldn't we still suggest it? If they don't listen, whatever, it'll be the same as it is now. On the off chance they do, it could possibly be something great.

[FrankReynolds]

You're completely out of your mind. The lower tier Nyzul gear is still good. Great even. So what if it doesn't compare to the full reward? If it did, why would anyone try to do it? Shoot for the top, but be awarded for what you achieve.

Be honest. Have you ever seen anyone wearing the gear from any floor besides 100? I haven't. As a matter of fact, I just had to look it up to be sure I would even recognize it if I did.

[Arcon]

Be honest. Have you ever seen anyone wearing the gear from any floor besides 100?

Never. Because the event is not designed to put out that gear. If it worked like I suggested a while ago, lots of people would be wearing it. Right now, everyone wants to shoot for the top, so they aim at F100. But if they get 99, which is already impressive, they get nothing out of it. That's why I said it should reward people depending on how they perform. Giving them a F80 win if they get to 90+ (even without aiming for 80 specifically) would fix that. Then people would still shoot for 100, but would also be rewarded depending on how good they did.

[Demon6324236]

Never. Because the event is not designed to put out that gear. If it worked like I suggested a while ago, lots of people would be wearing it. Right now, everyone wants to shoot for the top, so they aim at F100. But if they get 99, which is already impressive, they get nothing out of it. That's why I said it should reward people depending on how they perform. Giving them a F80 win if they get to 90+ (even without aiming for 80 specifically) would fix that. Then people would still shoot for 100, but would also be rewarded depending on how good they did.

I have seen some people wearing the +2~3 gear but its very rare to see. In either case I plan to do my static I am working on weirdly I suppose, because my plan is to gear everyone up to a good standard, then try to hit 80 3~4 runs for some +3 gear. Heavy DD body is still good for WSs given the +WS%, while the legs are still a nice STP/Haste piece, and the hands are not to bad for WSs.

[Sarick]

Never. Because the event is not designed to put out that gear. If it worked like I suggested a while ago, lots of people would be wearing it. Right now, everyone wants to shoot for the top, so they aim at F100. But if they get 99, which is already impressive, they get nothing out of it. That's why I said it should reward people depending on how they perform. Giving them a F80 win if they get to 90+ (even without aiming for 80 specifically) would fix that. Then people would still shoot for 100, but would also be rewarded depending on how good they did.

Again, you think nothing of tiered difficulty to suit everyone. The people who want rewards don't deserve it if they can't find a way to get it by hook or crook. It still doesn't give people who fail a chance to get the same gear.

Also, in your example you suggest dumbing down the artificial difficulty in the the event making it easier. I don't know how you can say I what more challenging content on one hand. Then on the other hand say these events should be dumbed down"

Yes, it'll make people do the event more because the artificial difficulty level is decreased. It won't create a new higher tier, it'll just be an easier content requirement everyone to compete in.

Maybe you do have some creativity after all. Anything else you want to suggest since the solutions you offered where universal easy buttons for everyone.

[Sarick]

I didn't offer a compromise because you've done nothing to convince me that this idea isn't perfectly valid. And the masses aren't arguing against me, you are. The masses are silently ignoring us both.

The only thing you done is put nothing on the table but another easy button alternative. Everything you've been saying up to this point just leads me deeper into the belief that you don't want to compromise anything. It's the simplest solution to the evidence at hand. As for the masses they don't need to argue with you. The masses speak when they don't use the content to it's full potential.

You're completely out of your mind. The lower tier Nyzul gear is still good. Great even. So what if it doesn't compare to the full reward? If it did, why would anyone try to do it? Shoot for the top, but be awarded for what you achieve.

There is better stuff players can use. Frank supports my stance on this and posed a unique argument. Your denial only exist because you have no other defense. It's the community who ultimately decides if they think it's good or not not you or me. I think it's total junk and I have every right to say this.

On a further note I didn't see any of the lower tier equipment in your equip history. I wonder why...

Your "revised suggestion" is the same crap that you've been trying to force-feed down my throat for the better part of a week. And I already said on the first few pages why it didn't compare. And several more times after that. It's the same "patience should substitute skill" philosophy you've been preaching all along in this thread, which is precisely what I took an issue with. It's nothing new. Zero compromise, the one thing you've been accusing me of for about twenty pages now.

What's the same?, whats different?, Whats your solution? why is it your solution? why? why? why? You still haven't given anything other then obscure personal bias. The masses can't work with that, and the developers can't work with it either.

Again, you're wrong. It's not the same thing. The first was totally depended on the luck of higher drop rates at higher tiers. The revision is based around performance assessment points. Totally different in that respect. The only part that wasn't modified is the fact that all players could eventually get it through effort. The burden of proof shifts in my favor if you can't prove otherwise.

The fact remains you want it one way and one way only, "It's my way or the highway." You can't even create a plausible alternative yet, you argue about it like their are better methods. If everyone lived by that logic we'd still be living in the stone ages. People would complain or argue about things and never attempt to find solutions for them. It's very destructive path. It fails in so many ways.

Come up with a compromise that puts the items in all tiers without "force feeding" your personal bias. You know the 'If you can't beat it you don't deserve it, GTFO" mentality.' I urge you to at least try to show a little bit of ingenuity and creativeness. I really doubt you have the skills or patience to do this. If you can't come up with an alternative compromise then you should just try harder. Are you up to the challenge or do you not have the skill set to be creative?

If you say no, then you're hypocrite. Why, I offered you a challenge. If we base this around your methodology people who can't conform don't deserve reward. The reward is recognition that you're capable of doing more then just disagreeing. In this case if you can't put solutions on the table you should follow your on beliefs and consider more training. Shoot for the top, but be awarded for what you achieve.

Why are you so sure? And even if you were, why shouldn't we still suggest it? If they don't listen, whatever, it'll be the same as it is now. On the off chance they do, it could possibly be something great.

I'll bring up a famous quote of relevance by George Santayana. He said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." I think the games hardcore history speaks for itself.

[detlef]

Nobody takes +2/+3 etc Nyzul gear seriously. Not even SE, which is why you can't even store it.

[Sarick]

Although, I've been arguing with Arcon some time now I do agree with some of his points. I disagree completely with his recent statement that the lower gear is worthwhile. We agree almost entirely with the exception of alternate routes players can receive the same HQ gear. I wanted a back door available for when players fail or don't manage to progress. I explained that there could be many factors that aren't easily recognizable. He was firmly dead set against it.

When I looked at this view I saw it much like SE's version of skilling up guard pre-update. It was setup so the only way you could get skill is by successful guards. This meant in order to skill up one had to go though extreme measures just to reach the goal of capped skill. This is much like how some of the systems are setup today. The way I see Arcon fixing things was he wanting to just raise the skill up rate for each success. Under this method we'd still need to successfully block to get rewarded. It just wasn't enough even if every single block gave a tiny reward.

The last update brought about a change where not only do you get rewarded for succeeding but also in the failures as a lower skill up reward. This would be the performance points I mentioned. In the long run. if the backup system had this subset to encourage players they wouldn't be forced to one path, they'd always get rewarded through a backdoor. They'd gain experience both in participation skill and long term goals that would build over time. The natural real life limitations would be less of an issue under this setup.

On an ending note, It's actually pointless to explain this if the benefits go through deef ears. Anyway, Arcon already conceded in an earlier response to some extent so I'm content with that.