FFXI fixed!

[Shoko]

Your missing a step:

4) After you have gotten to wear the best gear for a sufficient amount of time, the developer makes that gear available to everyone and you start back at step 2.

If you add something that average joes can't do, and add awesome gear to it, then the next new event has to be even harder to compensate for the new uber gear that the leet players will be wearing. Then when the leet get their Uber +2 gear from that event, the next event has to be even harder than the second one to compensate for the uber +2 stats. The fourth event harder than the third one. This goes on until you reach a state where 90% of the players get KOed for even mentioning the name of the event, while a few guys are cruising through it with basically the same degree of difficulty that they had with the first event, because they have all the awesome gear (or atmas or temp items or w/e) that makes things easier.

Step 4 is logical and fine, but it's currently been going on for over 3 years now. It's quite alright to go back to more hardcore times once again for a while, and treat those players to something nice. I know you are trying to joke with the mock up list I made, but there is no fault in what I'm saying. That's how a generic MMO works-- gear for hardcore players will always be much better than casual content, and they deserve access to it.

There is nothing stopping a casual player from taking a few steps to circumvent doing specific content and still getting top of the line gear as well. There's nothing in this game that cannot be purchased, R/E, AHable or otherwise-- the right amount of gil will get you whatever you want in this game if you decide to go that route. There is also nothing stopping the casual player from forming their own groups to obtain much better gear than what they currently have on as well, or from joining an LS to get gear for a specific amount of time. The only thing that stops them is general laziness, reclusiveness or their own personal morality factor.

[FrankReynolds]

Step 4 is logical and fine, but it's currently been going on for over 3 years now. It's quite alright to go back to more hardcore times once again for a while, and treat those players to something nice. I know you are trying to joke with the mock up list I made, but there is no fault in what I'm saying. That's how a generic MMO works-- gear for hardcore players will always be much better than casual content, and they deserve access to it.

There is nothing stopping a casual player from taking a few steps to circumvent doing specific content and still getting top of the line gear as well. There's nothing in this game that cannot be purchased, R/E, AHable or otherwise-- the right amount of gil will get you whatever you want in this game if you decide to go that route. There is also nothing stopping the casual player from forming their own groups to obtain much better gear than what they currently have on as well, or from joining an LS to get gear for a specific amount of time. The only thing that stops them is general laziness, reclusiveness or their own personal morality factor.

I don't know what hardcore times you want to go back to. Before the level cap increase, you had what? Limbus, Sea, Sky, dynamis, kings, Salvage and ZNM? Which of those events was harder than VW? Or Neo Nyzul? Or even abyssea?

The hardcore past doesn't exist. Every end game event of old had the same result as the ones in game now. Get a bunch of people and do it every week and you will get the item. There was rarely if ever a question as to whether you would complete the run. It was always just a matter of repetition. You got +1 versions by paying more. Not by beating harder content. Billy the armadaberk warrior bad ass just paid 100 mil more than joey the mediocre adaberk warrior. He didn't beat an extra special zone that drops +1 abjurations, he just bought it from some lucky crafter. There was no +1 gear from salvage, and it had the same problems we have now. Where in you go 1,000 times and never get that 35 piece, but the dodo bird token treasure hunter thief in full af over there gets it his first run.

They have seriously run out of stuff. Asking for harder content is just begging for some infuriating new RNG based content that has no rhyme or reason to it and will not make you feel more accomplished for having gotten lucky. Best case scenario, they put in some event that only the leet can handle. The leet get gear and laugh at everyone else. Most likely scenario: They put in some crap like Neo Nyzul that is so random that you know its just luck and not skill, and people cheat until everyone has all the gear anyways.

[Sarick]

A good majority of your posts are also pretty bad. You do not speak for the community as a whole, and should not. Just as well, people should not take your posts for what they are.

I'm speaking from what the developers said and statistical data behind it. If this wasn't what the community wanted then why on earth would the original poster be ranting about it? It's because the majority of the community didn't enjoy all the hardcore content. This caused SE to lower the bar.

A good deal of people also loved the hard content, just as well as others who hated it. When you leave the realm of casual content and dive into hardcore content gear should and must be statistically stronger, as this is a typical MMO:

1) You play an MMO for strong gear, and obtain it.
2) You use strong gear to face a monster or [increasingly] difficult content.
3) You obtain stronger and better gear as your reward(s).

The process of rewards is there for both sides one gets more reward for the effect advanced skill they put in so they can attain the same overpowered gear that makes them better. The other puts in more time at a lower skill level for the same overpowered gear. Nothing wrong with getting better rewards only that these rewards should be universal at different skill level. If Joe pink spends 6 months getting an uber item and jack elite spends a one month the same item there is nothing wrong or unbalanced here.

You should not play saint at any point in time. A real person playing saint would be able to take on both sides of an argument and with it, find common ground between the two. You are only loosely speaking for yourself.

I did find common ground in a few aspects. If you poison someone they're still poisoned and will need an antidote. If you don't try and find that antidote then the poison causes damage over time it might even eventually kill them. A good saint will find common ground but they won't let one party die of poison. Read the original post again. It's underlying agenda isn't selfless or good nature for everyone. It's harsh hatred and subjective to personal motivations. Nothing is good for everyone and you can't please everyone but you can try to please the majority. The developers ran statistics on hardcore vs easier content and found that the majority disapproved in hardcore content.

Sage Sundi said this himself soon around the launch of CoP.

So, given that fact with all the bad history, 24 hour Pukefest NM, CoP, Neo Nysul, etc etc etc. You see I'm not pulling this out of my arse. They lowered the difficulty sometimes multiple times because it needed done from a community standpoint. It wasn't a single persons opinion that made these decisions it was the community and the developers together. The community cried out for change and in some cases this cry went viral. Look at FF14, they tried that crap on it. Did you see how well that went?

[Shoko]

I don't know what hardcore times you want to go back to. Before the level cap increase, you had what? Limbus, Sea, Sky, dynamis, kings, Salvage and ZNM? Which of those events was harder than VW? Or Neo Nyzul? Or even abyssea?

The hardcore past doesn't exist. Every end game event of old had the same result as the ones in game now. Get a bunch of people and do it every week and you will get the item. There was rarely if ever a question as to whether you would complete the run. It was always just a matter of repetition. You got +1 versions by paying more. Not by beating harder content. Billy the armadaberk warrior bad ass just paid 100 mil more than joey the mediocre adaberk warrior. He didn't beat an extra special zone that drops +1 abjurations, he just bought it from some lucky crafter. There was no +1 gear from salvage, and it had the same problems we have now. Where in you go 1,000 times and never get that 35 piece, but the dodo bird token treasure hunter thief in full af over there gets it his first run.

They have seriously run out of stuff. Asking for harder content is just begging for some infuriating new RNG based content that has no rhyme or reason to it and will not make you feel more accomplished for having gotten lucky. Best case scenario, they put in some event that only the leet can handle. The leet get gear and laugh at everyone else. Most likely scenario: They put in some crap like Neo Nyzul that is so random that you know its just luck and not skill, and people cheat until everyone has all the gear anyways.

If the "hardcore past" doesn't exist, then why does this thread exist? Why are there people in this very thread clamoring that everyone should be allowed the same gear that others can obtain from specific events? Surely it's not because all of the events are easy.

There was a certain point in this game that separated casuals from the hardcore. You can call it easy or what have you, but to the casual player, it was definitely something they couldn't get into for whatever reason, be it the time required to grind and obtain stuff, or just not being good enough to be let into an LS that got these specific items. Even so, some of those events can definitely be called hardcore events in terms of difficulty, by a casual's standards back then (Einherjar, CoP Dynamis, Salvage, Sky, Sandworm). They just weren't events where you could put on any sub par gear and expect excellent results, nor were they events where the casual could just jump in and put in work easy and be of benefit to their PT or Alliance-- they had to be decently geared and at least have an idea on what's going on.

Crafting is an entirely different matter at hand, esp when you speak of abjuration items. And yet, it leads back to one of my own previous arguments that I just stated-- there's nothing stopping anyone from buying whatever they want. They will just have to be well aware of the price they will have to pay to obtain.

If that is the case and everything is easy both in past and present FFXI, I must ask you this question. Are you happy with FFXI? If you are happy with FFXI as it is, awesome bro. If not, Why are you still playing if you aren't happy?

Neo Nyzul was actually a good idea at what FFXI needs right now in my opinion, but I agree that it was horribly implemented and randomness has too big a factor.

[Shoko]

I'm speaking from what the developers said and statistical data behind it. If this wasn't what the community wanted then why on earth would the original poster be ranting about it? It's because the majority of the community didn't enjoy all the hardcore content. This caused SE to lower the bar.



The process of rewards is there for both sides one gets more reward for the effect advanced skill they put in so they can attain the overpowered get that makes them better the other puts in more time at a lower skill level. Nothing wrong with getting better rewards only that these rewards should be universal at different skill level. If Joe pink spends 6 months getting an uber item and jack elite spends a one month the same item there is nothing wrong or unbalanced here.



I did find common ground in a few aspects. If you poison someone they're still poisoned and will need an antidote. If you don't try and find that antidote then the poison causes damage over time it might even eventually kill them. A good saint will find common ground but they won't let one party die of poison. Read the original post again. It's underlying agenda isn't selfless or good nature for everyone. It's harsh hatred and subjective to personal motivations. Nothing is good for everyone and you can't please everyone but you can try to please the majority. The developers ran statistics on hardcore vs easier content and found that the majority disapproved in hardcore content.

Sage Sundi said this himself soon around the launch of CoP.

So, given that fact with all the bad history, 24 hour Pukefest NM, CoP, Neo Nysul, etc etc etc. You see I'm not pulling this out of my arse. They lowered the difficulty sometimes multiple times because it needed done from a community standpoint. It wasn't a single persons opinion that made these decisions it was the community and the developers together. The community cried out for change and in some cases this cry went viral.

I agree with some of your sentiments. SE definitely saw the problem in the past and made much of the content very solo/duo/lowman friendly and implemented it as Abyssea & Neo Nyzul. They also added the trigger/atma system to these events and Voidwatch to already make these easy events even easier.

Now there is another public outcry starting up that much of this content is now too easy and that they want a return to more difficult content as well as the returned feeling of exploration and newness, hence why they stated these things in the coming expansion. Do you really want more of the same trigger systems, and artificially boosted buffs that give you the preemptive advantage? Are you happy that the actual decent content that's out right now (Legion, Neo Nyzul) is invalidated by 3rd Party Exploits and Alexander Perfect Defense spamming (respectively)?

[Sarick]

I agree with some of your sentiments. SE definitely saw the problem in the past and made much of the content very solo/duo/lowman friendly and implemented it as Abyssea & Neo Nyzul. They also added the trigger/atma system to these events and Voidwatch to already make these easy events even easier.

Now there is another public outcry starting up that much of this content is now too easy and that they want a return to more difficult content as well as the returned feeling of exploration and newness, hence why they stated these things in the coming expansion. Do you really want more of the same trigger systems, and artificially boosted buffs that give you the preemptive advantage? Are you happy that the actual decent content that's out right now (Legion, Neo Nyzul) is invalidated by 3rd Party Exploits and Alexander Perfect Defense spamming (respectively)?

This should be addressed in the upcoming expansion. It's design is based after the level cap was raised to 99 so the content should have that NEW effect.

The plans behind the expansion can be felt with the crafter ranks being raised to 150. They won't deny it but they also won't announce it. The Free temp items in the new areas might be replaced with crafted only stuff to jump start the economy. So Those revitalizes, brews etc. could still be a part of the system just much harder to obtain easy mode.

[FrankReynolds]

If the "hardcore past" doesn't exist, then why does this thread exist? Why are there people in this very thread clamoring that everyone should be allowed the same gear that others can obtain from specific events? Surely it's not because all of the events are easy.

This thread exists because the OP is pissed that someone else showed up to the party wearing the same outfit as him. He thinks that if he get's them to build a shirt store just for him, then he will always be the cool kid at the party.

I don't find any of today's events to be all that different from the past in terms of difficulty. It's just the in your face RNG that has become a little too apparent.

They just weren't events where you could put on any sub par gear and expect excellent results, nor were they events where the casual could just jump in and put in work easy and be of benefit to their PT or Alliance-- they had to be decently geared and at least have an idea on what's going on.

With the exception of maybe Jailers, I have done every end game event that existed before abyssea on a sub par job at one point or another, and usually with several others in the same situation. It was never impossible. It just took longer. I think that is part of the problem now. A lot of people who thought they were awesome, really just had more uninterrupted play time than others. When they broke up events into 30 minute chunks, it turned out that they were not any better than the people who used to not have the cool gear. They just had more time. I didn't have a lot of relic gear for years because I just didn't have 4-5 hours where I could ignore the world for dynamis. When I changed my schedule and got time, guess what? it's not hard.

What is being pushed in this thread is an event(s) that cannot be completed without perfect gear / skills. It also bears mentioning that an event of that difficulty would probably be too hard for most of the people asking for it. So it's double lame in that sense. Within the confines of this games mechanics, it is almost impossible to make something like that. If there is a pattern, people will figure it out and repeat. If there is no pattern, there is no skill. Once 1 group has figured out how to beat something, luck and time are the only differentiating factors between who has the drop and who doesn't. Time is the only one that you get to influence. Hence it is the best basis for reward. Better players take less time to achieve things. That's the benefit to them.

Crafting is an entirely different matter at hand, esp when you speak of abjuration items. And yet, it leads back to one of my own previous arguments that I just stated-- there's nothing stopping anyone from buying whatever they want. They will just have to be well aware of the price they will have to pay to obtain.

That would completely defeat the purpose of these events. These people want something that a casual can not have. If every pink guy ups and buys the new yellow gear, then mister achievement gets sad because he looks just like them.

If that is the case and everything is easy both in past and present FFXI, I must ask you this question. Are you happy with FFXI? If you are happy with FFXI as it is, awesome bro. If not, Why are you still playing if you aren't happy?

I'm pretty happy right now. I have a lot of projects and I get to meet people socially now due to the nature of VW / Abyssea. I never really talked to a lot of people outside of my shell before that because I was always farming stuff with the same few people.

[Shoko]

I can agree with most of these sentiments as well. Much of the older content really was not super hard, just required more time to eventually beat out the RNG and also other lotters in the same group(s). However, some of the events are specifically tailored to players who had to be decently geared to obtain good results. Sure, one or two people could be sub/below par geared for old 75 Einherjar, but then everyone else pretty much had to make up for their poor gear by being very well geared themselves (after all, it was content based around killing many many mobs AND a Mega Boss; Odin just requires decently geared ranged attackers, and/or BRD rotation of players). No poorly geared or prepared alliance ever beat T2 and Odin chambers of [75] Einherjar, and many instances of this happening was clearly seen (on Carbuncle at least). 3-4 man old Salvage basically required your DDs to be well built to climb and take on everything going up, as well as the Chariots. It also required people to be physically attentive and aware players as well.

No one here is arguing for content that requires the most absolute perfect gear to complete, only the fact that it should be tailored to those players that have geared themselves very well (as well as competent merits). I've stated a number of times that this could be any player, casual or hardcore.

No one is also asking for content that is ever changing and always hard either. We love to have puzzles that are figured out after a specific amount of time. That's one of the reasons why people enjoyed the hell out of Salvage, for example (minus the absurdly low drop rate). We all know the AV fiasco, and no one cares to remember about it, as we still don't know all of the stipulations to the mob in question after 29% HP, however vague or obvious to SE.

[Ragmar]

This thread exists because the OP is pissed that someone else showed up to the party wearing the same outfit as him. He thinks that if he get's them to build a shirt store just for him, then he will always be the cool kid at the party.

I don't find any of today's events to be all that different from the past in terms of difficulty. It's just the in your face RNG that has become a little too apparent.



With the exception of maybe Jailers, I have done every end game event that existed before abyssea on a sub par job at one point or another, and usually with several others in the same situation. It was never impossible. It just took longer. I think that is part of the problem now. A lot of people who thought they were awesome, really just had more uninterrupted play time than others. When they broke up events into 30 minute chunks, it turned out that they were not any better than the people who used to not have the cool gear. They just had more time. I didn't have a lot of relic gear for years because I just didn't have 4-5 hours where I could ignore the world for dynamis. When I changed my schedule and got time, guess what? it's not hard.

What is being pushed in this thread is an event(s) that cannot be completed without perfect gear / skills. It also bears mentioning that an event of that difficulty would probably be too hard for most of the people asking for it. So it's double lame in that sense. Within the confines of this games mechanics, it is almost impossible to make something like that. If there is a pattern, people will figure it out and repeat. If there is no pattern, there is no skill. Once 1 group has figured out how to beat something, luck and time are the only differentiating factors between who has the drop and who doesn't. Time is the only one that you get to influence. Hence it is the best basis for reward. Better players take less time to achieve things. That's the benefit to them.



That would completely defeat the purpose of these events. These people want something that a casual can not have. If every pink guy ups and buys the new yellow gear, then mister achievement gets sad because he looks just like them.



I'm pretty happy right now. I have a lot of projects and I get to meet people socially now due to the nature of VW / Abyssea. I never really talked to a lot of people outside of my shell before that because I was always farming stuff with the same few people.

Actually no, the OP was because I got sick of every thread being posted, by the same 5 people mind you, asking for every aspect of the game to be reverted to facebook levels because they want everyone to be limited to playing to their standards. Again no one in favor is trying to exclude anyone we just want challenging content with rewards that reflect the content we enjoy. I even went as far as to say make said content easy peasy lemon squeezy so that anyone and their retarded dog could breeze through it. I simply asked that we be allowed to up the difficulty and have gear with minimal upgrades because if you do harder content shouldnt you get a higher level reward? Otherwise why dont we just allow lvl one mobs to drop any gear in the game. It's those who fear they are going to be left out placing such value on gear even going to the extreme of saying complete strangers could only want the gear because they are ego freaks and need this gear to feel better about themselves while admitting they only want this gear because they feel inadequate for not having what someone else has. I play less than 10 hours a week mon-fri doing random things helping my friends where I can. When I get more play time on weekends I would like content that challenges me. I don't want SE to remove content for casuals, however it seems the only reason you are against them adding content for less casual players is penis envy. The only way someone can "lord gear" over you is if you value it or their opinions of you so much that you actually allow what they have or what they think of you to change the way you feel about yourself.

Not all content is made easier with time either. Only the lvl cap increase made pre abyssea content easier. In any MMO there is an expectation that players will become more skilled with time which will allow them to engage in and complete content previously beyond their ability. I can't think of anything currently exhisting in FFXI that limits anyone from attempting to complete. The only people asking for anyone to be left out are those asking for content not to exceed their own personal limitations which in effect then eliminates rewarding content for those who may have less personal limitations. IE you dont want people to be able to have things you cant because you dont feel its fair even though you are given the same exact accessability to the same exact content.

[Sarick]

Actually no, the OP was because I got sick of every thread being posted, by the same 5 people mind you, asking for every aspect of the game to be reverted to facebook levels because they want everyone to be limited to playing to their standards. Again no one in favor is trying to exclude anyone we just want challenging content with rewards that reflect the content we enjoy. I even went as far as to say make said content easy peasy lemon squeezy so that anyone and their retarded dog could breeze through it. I simply asked that we be allowed to up the difficulty and have gear with minimal upgrades because if you do harder content shouldnt you get a higher level reward?

I'm all for allowing challenging content and greater rewards just not special rewards such as (rewarding hardcore with +1 versions). You see by giving these rewards to hardcore you're making a tier that excludes less skilled players. If the reward was higher drop rates or more trial upgrades per kill then in the end it would balance out. Giving special rewards to elites poisons the well for others in the game.

Why does it poison the well? Because, to drink from the elite pool you need to have elite immunity to drink it's waters. Everyone who isn't worthy (Less skilled) is poisoned by it.

I hear it all the time from players, GO EMP/RELIC weapon or GTFO.