[dev1135] New Thief 2 hour ability

[FrankReynolds]

I just wanted to create a thread to discuss this ability specifically. It sounds like it will be terrible and I'm hoping that by getting the suggestions rolling, we ca get them to fix it before it goes live and they leave it alone for a year before re-evaluating.

As I have read it, it appears to be a Trick Attack +1.

I can't imagine how this is going to do enough damage to warrant a timer any longer than say 10 minutes. I'm also having a major issue with the whole enmity thing. The optimist in me believes that they have major plans to rework the enmity system at some point, but I would rather they give us some other form of ability now and save the enmity stuff for when it's actually useful again / if ever.

I think it's probably best to just write off the enmity portion of the ability and not discuss it for now, seeing as there will almost never be a situation where it will be any more useful that trick attack in that regard.

How much damage would this move have to do to be a decent 2 hour ability? And what would be a better alternative to just one stupid high damage spike?

[Badieh]

I'm thinking this move is going to have the same damage output like Eagle Eye but the Thf will have a chance to divert the enmity to someone else.

[Badieh]

I'm also thinking it will have some way cool animation. (Hopefully similar to something like the Nin emote.)

[Zirael]

Aside from this being Eagle Eye Shot (read: useless), my next gripe with this ability is - there is a high chance it will be usable only in party. What about when you are solo? What about when you duo something hard with a mage? Transferring enmity it's all good, unless there is no one to transfer it to, or unless the person with hate planted on them gets murdered in 5 seconds.
Was it really that hard to think up an ability that for 3 minutes makes all triple attacks do triple damage, gives 5TP TP regain, boosts your Dual Wield rating (like changing our delay reduction from -25% to -50%) AND on top of that causes all Trick Attacks to transfer full enmity?

Or, something I proposed in the other thread, for 60 seconds make all hits become Sneak Attack/Trick Attack, where positional conditions are met, or when Bully was used AND allow Trick Attack to transfer full enmity.

Or an ability that gives target a 60-second Amnesia. Etc, etc...

If the Development Team couldn't come up with anything better than a Trick Attack for new Thief ability, they could have asked those playing the job passionately for some ideas.

Why other jobs have things like Mighty Strikes, Hundred Fists, Embrava. Meikyo Shisui, new SMN ability, new RNG ability, new DRK ability, etc.and Thief gets renamed Trick Attack...?

[Mathieu]

Meh, it's not great, but since Perfect Dodge is useless outside a few specific situations, at least it does give something to potentially use the two hour timer on. It isn't an emergency button like some of the other two hours are, but that's hardly a unique situation.

Aside from this being Eagle Eye Shot (read: useless), my next gripe with this ability is - there is a high chance it will be usable only in party. What about when you are solo? What about when you duo something hard with a mage? Transferring enmity it's all good, unless there is no one to transfer it to, or unless the person with hate planted on them gets murdered in 5 seconds.

Which would be a more valid point if it was replacing Perfect Dodge. It isn't. That's like saying Perfect Dodge is useless because it doesn't do anything when you aren't being attacked.

[Zirael]

Which would be a more valid point if it was replacing Perfect Dodge. It isn't. That's like saying Perfect Dodge is useless because it doesn't do anything when you aren't being attacked.

Mind reminding me which other 2-hour works ONLY if you are in a party AND have someone standing right in front of you?
The closest one would be Spirit Surge + Super Jump, but that offers a myriad of other benefits to the user.
It might sound wrong to you, but when getting a new offensive 2-hour, I'd like for it to do SOMETHING USEFUL even without my pocket PLD around.
I imagine devs wanted this to give THF more utility in party/zerg scenarios, but even there it will fail miserably short. If you want to see an useful party/alliance 2-hour, check out Perfect Defence, Embrava, Chainspell, Wild Card, Soul Voice, Chainspell-Shock_Squall, etc.

[Babekeke]

The description doesn't say that you need to be in a party, just that if there is someone between you and the mob, all enmity will be transferred (doesn't say if it's all accumulated enmity, or if it's just for that hit).

I'm hoping that this is a non-crit attack that stacks with both SA, TA and WS. I'm hoping.

So, as a non-crit hit, I'd like to see it do total weapon damage (main + sub)*10, so generally about 900 damage (before Pdif).

So, now when you add bully and sneak attack to it, you add 150~ (your dex) to the damage of your main-hand for ~2400 damage for the 2 hour (before Pdif - and remember it's now a crit, so add 1.0).

Add in a weaponskill and the numbers are going to start piling up.

And that's just if you use it solo.

It obviously has added benefits of using in a pt though, so add in Trick attack to the equasion, for probably another ~100 damage to main weapon (assuming if you got 150 dex you won't get as much agi due to rings/earrings/merits etc). You're now looking at 3400 damage (before Pdif inc crit).

Now stack it with a WS.

Yes, that's right. Still worse than Mighty Strikes, Hundred Fists or Meikyo Shisui. But much better than Perfect Dodge.

Edit: I was kind of hoping that someone who had tried this on the test server would put us out of our misery.

[Zirael]

Yes, that's right. Still worse than Mighty Strikes, Hundred Fists or Meikyo Shisui. But much better than Perfect Dodge.

Edit: I was kind of hoping that someone who had tried this on the test server would put us out of our misery.

Wohooo!

I'ts not up on Test Server, for now we can speculatorycraft how bad it could possibly be. I admit, my expectations might sound too grave.

[Babekeke]

Still no word on the new 2 hour yet, which I imagine means they put the idea forward for testing by SE staff, and the testers turned around and said "This is trick Attack!"

And the fight goes on...

[FrankReynolds]

Still no word on the new 2 hour yet, which I imagine means they put the idea forward for testing by SE staff, and the testers turned around and said "This is trick Attack!"

And the fight goes on...

Let's put it this way. If it doesn't do more damage than a SAM soloing light, then it should be on a 5 minute timer.

I would love for this ability to do like 4-5k damage and share a timer with trick attack, but have a 5 min recast instead of 1 minute.

For a 2 hour, it's just plain ridiculous.

I would like to see something like %100 forced crits with DEX mod for 60 seconds, sort of a mighty strikes / sneak attack hybrid, or something like that.

Or maybe make it so that it does about double what trick attack does, but with added effect: all enmity gain for party members is directed to the person that you used it on for like 60 seconds. Thus allowing DDs to go all out hate free. That would allow you to Zerg stuff, and still have a tank, by placing everyone's enmity on the tank. Bring back the PAL super turtle!