Do you really think that little of your player base?

[Arcon]

Unfortunately, my counterstance on it still holds as well. The development team ultimately gets to decide on what they want to respond to, and how to respond about it. Notice, not a single community rep or otherwise has yet to post in this thread. Its definately a hot topic, but im sure their avoiding it for all the right reasons.

That's not an argument at all. We're aware that the development team gets to decide that. The development team gets to decide everything. Does that mean we can't make suggestions? What's the point of these forums then? You can go into every thread ever and complain that people shouldn't suggest anything, because ultimately it's all up to SE.

And you can't possibly be sure for why they're not replying, because they rarely reply to anything. And we don't particularly care for a reply. This is not a specific suggestion to change some feature or something similar. This is just a general suggestion of what direction we'd like the game to go into. It would be hard to reply to this in the first place. We mainly want them to notice it, and hopefully consider it in their future game design and development.

As for Arcon, take a step back and please stop using name calling and less than proper language towards others. I am willing to debate with you, but resorting to those methods is very discouraging for an adult conversation.

Like what? Because I called what you said bullshit? I did that because it was bullshit, it was objectively false and I gave an explanation for why. I don't remember saying anything else. I'm not trying to be offensive, and if you still get offended the issue may be with you.

If you sit at a poker table in a casino, it doesnt mater if you know the rules or not. Now someone who would choose to do so might think "Hey i should learn how to play before jumping in! Real money is at stake, i would hate to throw it away because i dont understand how to play!" So you research the game. You ask the dealer at an empty table to teach you how to play poker. They explain that you win with certain combinations of cards, they explain how to place a bet, the tell you the rules to each turn. Now you can play poker! But whats this? Some guy at the other table is beating you? Hey how did he beat me with a pair of 2s! I had three 5s! Oh wait, i folded. That is because you need to explore how to use the rules to achieve your objective. You never learned about bluffing from dealer. But if you asked your friends, they might have given you a heads up on the strategy part. And even then, you still need experience to determine what strategy works for you and how you plan to win. Thats exploration of a game. I couldnt define it any more detailed than that. When you play a game, your obligated to learn how to play it first. And even then, you dont have to know how to play a game without training. It just helps to learn so you can achieve victory.

That is exactly what I said. You're now fully supporting my argument. Knowing the rules is equivalent to knowing the game mechanics. Applying the rules and learning how to be good within their confines is gameplay. The first needs to be known so the game can be played. Everything after that is exploration.

When I say I wanna know how the game works, I mean I actually wanna know the mechanics involved. It means I want to know which piece of gear does what exactly. Because right now we don't know. Once we know that, it does not mean we get everything handed to us. It means now the game can begin: we need to figure out which gear is best to used for which situation, which buffs are best used, trying to make strategies around different setups, and so on. That is what the game is.

I'll give you an example of what I mean. Do you remember when Lv75 Paladins used to wear Phalanx Rings? They got laughed at and didn't even know why. That's because DEF+10 looks great on paper. Only they didn't know. Because no one told them how useless DEF is. Now you'd think DEF is to defense what Attack is to offense. That's a fairly logical assumption, no? But you'd be wrong again.

I'll give you more examples. People underestimated Haste a lot. Why? They thought it made them faster (which sounds reasonable, going by the name), but that's incorrect. It reduces their delay. And that is a very crucial difference in damage output. It makes Haste+80% be as effective as Haste+500% if it just increased your speed. Only people would never know that without doing actual research and make an effort to determine this. They'd play the game under false assumptions because it's not clear what the stats do.

There's countless other examples like that. VIT/STR myths? Treasure Hunter? Different Haste categories? And don't even get me started on gear we still don't know what the fuck it's supposed to do, even though it's been out for a long time now.

Or to put it back into the poker analogy: we can't make proper strategies and decisions without knowing how the game works. With FFXI we're not told how it works. A large part of it was figured out by players. A large part of it is still trying to be figured out by players, with little success.

As for telling you what is fun for you, do me and everyone else a favor. Define what makes this fun for you. Tell us what keeps you playing FFXI.

Playing the game. I like doing events like Einherjar (old and new), Limbus (old and new), Assaults, Salvage and Legion. I like solo efforts, trying if I can beat certain NMs on THF or SMN or whatever I feel like at the moment. I also like helping people out. Farming Abyssea for items, helping with limit breaks and mission fights and whatnot. I have an active LS with friends in it whom I get to talk to.

Is that surprising? I thought this was what literally everyone played for (with a different choice of events, maybe).

For me its pretty easy, im not done with the game yet. Theres still a handful of hurdles and quests for me to do. A few more stories to experience. A few more fights for me to declare victory in.

So basically the same as me. And none of what you said involved exploring how the game works. You're just talking about exploring the lore and the land, not game mechanics. It seems everything you say agrees with what I say completely, but you just don't want to admit to it.

And for the record, it is a sight-seeing tour.

A sight-seeing tour is not interactive. A movie is something you take in. A book is something you take in. A song is something you take in. Games aren't. Games require interaction. You need to make your own experience. That's not a sight-seeing tour. I've done Odin a ton of times. I don't think there's anything I haven't seen from him. I've seen all his TP moves, all his valkyries' TP moves and all the loot he has to offer. But I'm still not done with him.

If it was a sight-seeing tour, doing anything more than once would be a waste. A sight-seeing tour only showers you with information. That's why it doesn't compare and never will. Because this is not about "knowing about it", this is about "playing it". I know lots about lots of the game and I still do it, because fun is not only in the story, but also in the execution of the gameplay. Cutscenes are sight-seeing tours. And if I've seen it before I usually skip it. But the fight that follows isn't, no matter how often you do it.

I really hope this game isnt a chore or job to you, that doesnt sound like fun at all.

Take note, because this is important: everyone plays the game because it's fun. No matter what they do. I could never understand why people EXP. It seems like a tedious chore to me. But people do enjoy it. And what's wrong with that? I never once judged what you consider fun, please stop saying that. But you do judge what other people consider fun. You said that you hope the game isn't a chore to me. How condescending. Why do you care if it is? You think you're better than others if they play something that sounds boring to you? What's a chore to you may be fun for someone else. I don't judge you for that, never did. And neither should you.