Do you really think that little of your player base?

[Arcon]

So wait, you are already making an assumption of my gaming experience simply based on what I said?

Yes. I don't know you. What else can I judge you by other than by what you say?

There is plenty I personally understand about this game. I have trained countless new players into what they are today, explored blue mage as a new job and did countless hours of research on effective play, have spent plenty of time onto play tactics and strategy, and with out knowing anything about me, already assume i know nothing. Please rethink that one, as i am not some newbie that just started playing yesterday. Need some sort of proof? March 2004 was my account activation. And yes, i have that Bradygames strategy guide. Man its fun to see how things have changed since then. But thanks for telling me i have no concept on how a game runs or is made.

Thanks for the lesson. I don't care for any of it. I didn't say you don't know anything about FFXI, I said you don't know anything about games. That's because you seem to think that figuring out how a game works should be a part of it. I disagree.

(also isnt such a post considered a personal attack? would think deformation of character applies here, but posting a reply is no better. Oh well.)

It's criticism, and you're free to feel offended, but it isn't a personal attack. That would be an attack on your person, such as calling you stupid, which is not what I did. I made a simple implication based on what you said, namely that games should encourage exploration. But you seemed to miss the difference between in-game mystery (such as lore and land) and external mysteries (such as how you actually play the game), which is essential because external mysteries prevent games from being played properly. And games are designed to be played properly. Hence not knowing how to play them is a serious flaw in the game's design, thus you encouraging those external mysteries suggests that you don't know how games are supposed to work.

[Modoru]

Also, it's defamation, not deformation.

The more you know.™

[Chuk]

Also, it's defamation, not deformation.

The more you know.™

Thanks, didnt catch that one on the proof read. Ill fix that in a sec.

[Chuk]

Thanks for the lesson. I don't care for any of it. I didn't say you don't know anything about FFXI, I said you don't know anything about games. That's because you seem to think that figuring out how a game works should be a part of it. I disagree.



It's criticism, and you're free to feel offended, but it isn't a personal attack. That would be an attack on your person, such as calling you stupid, which is not what I did. I made a simple implication based on what you said, namely that games should encourage exploration. But you seemed to miss the difference between in-game mystery (such as lore and land) and external mysteries (such as how you actually play the game), which is essential because external mysteries prevent games from being played properly. And games are designed to be played properly. Hence not knowing how to play them is a serious flaw in the game's design, thus you encouraging those external mysteries suggests that you don't know how games are supposed to work.

Can't believe im about to bite on this one, but here goes.

So what your saying is i dont get that we dont know how to play the game? First off, Instruction Manual. ALL copies of this game that i own came with one. Second off, experimentation is the very source of a game. Are you telling me that i should be faulted for not knowing whats in a game before i play it? This is quite baseless, since exploration is 100% of what gaming is. Lemme me put it into context for you. We all know Super Mario Brothers. We know that when you jump on a goomba, he dies. Its irrelevant to know that the game assigns a flag to a memory point to switch from ON to OFF to show the goomba died. Instead, we see that via experimenting that the goomba is dead because, well, we jumped on him. In no way shape or form do i need to know how the game figures it out, i just need to know that jumping on the enemy is a good thing. All games share this trial and error basis. And not once does knowing exactly how the game calculates everything impact the fact that you are going to try or not try. Via trial and error, we will keep trying different tactics to figure out how to win at the game we are playing. As for not knowing how to play a game, really instruction manuals, tutorials, and even friends and other players are and always will be the leading force on how to play said games. Need more proof? E.T. the Extra Terrestrial says sup. A game with the poorest documentaion and worst control scheme has been figured out and beaten, not because the guy who wrote the game said how it works, but because people with good ole fashion trial and error sat down and played the game till they figured it out.

Also, implying something is about as good as just flat out saying so. And last i checked, i have no problems controlling my character and getting things done in FFXI or any other game for that matter.

[Ritsuka]

It probably was an excuse, but it's true that (especially in japan) there are a considerable amount of players who are against the excessive gearswaps the game "requires" from the playerbase nowadays, especially for some jobs.

An idle set, a regen set, a refresh set, a movement speed set, a PDT set, an MDT set, a precast set, a postcast set, nuke set, debuffset, DD set, ws set, blah blah and countless variations of these sets.


It sure got to levels on a different scale compared to, say, the situation 5 years ago. This is for several reasons. I can think of the playerbase "growing up" and wishing to furtherly tweak their performance in-game, and because of SE offering countless new options of gear which are way too situational and can be used only for a couple of things.
This is especially evident for mage jobs.
I'm a complete mage noob, yet the amount of gear I have for my SCH and the amount of swaps I do gives me the headache.
Thinking about all the people who do that without spellcast just enhances these thoughts. (I don't, for instance)

So yeah, it's not just a couple of players, a considerable amount of players are against gearswapping.
As for my position I dunno, I'm a "slave" to the system of course, but while I really like a certain amount of gear swap, I also do think that nowadays' levels have definitely passed the line of acceptability, we really have too many situational pieces with very limited use. Some jobs are constantly swapping, it can understand some people getting annoyed by that.
Still, this is not something that can be fixed, it's too late, and certainly they cannot "fix" it by giving replies such as the one you mentioned, which is absolutely ridiculous of course.

I think i remember reading some where that Square never intended people to do gear swiping with macro's. its just something ppl started to do to get nice damage with their job

[Slaxx]

I've heard the same thing about gear swapping, usually from Rosina or others like her. The fact is I have NEVER seen anything to back it up. Until someone can quote an actual SE source saying they never intended gear swapping that's just another rumor. The fact is gear swapping has been the norm for better players since I started at PS2 launch (and I'm sure well before that as well). Not everyone does it, but if you don't, you're holding back not only yourself, but those who play with you.

PS Even if such a source were quoted and verified it wouldn't change the fact that not gear swapping (even using the limited in-game system) means you are performing sub-optimally. Can you really say that SE meant for people to TP in Hecatomb equipment?

[Caketime]

Yes. I don't know you. What else can I judge you by other than by what you say?

This made me lol significantly. Rest of the post was p. much garbage though, cry moar son.

[Kitkat]

.....most recent post......

Just to clarify why people don't agree with you: Most of us may have looked at the game and said "hey cool, a game to play with others in a genre I enjoy playing" and exploration was possibly the first few months ~ year we played. Then we all realized that we don't have hours to spend figuring out the vague dialogue in the quest objectives in order to complete a quest or find gear/drops we need. Additionally, rather than have every person try to figure out each mechanic individually until they understand just what it all does, we seek out information.

That being said, if you want to spend the time to get that "a whole new world" feeling out of the game then go ahead, but understand there are many players that just don't have the time for it. We have very few hours a day, sometimes every other day or only 1-2 times a week, and rather than spend that little bit of time figuring it all out, or exploring, we would much rather get it done and over with so we can enjoy other parts of the game with friends/ls/randomwtfpeople.

So, while your argument holds some weight, it is a "new feeling" that quickly wears off and ends up more an annoyance/nuance when the lack of information is supposed to be the "premises" of a game. On another note, try looking at just about any other MMO that has been out for more than a few months and you'll find that they all have similar sites with information. In a world where knowledge is power, those who can will wield it and succeed, while those who don't will fumble, trip, and fall until they learn.

[Luvbunny]

Yup for those who love being befuddled, confused and utterly in the dark seeking exploring and hoping to solve the vague puzzle of information, congrats to you. That is one way to play the game - and get your sense of achievement for wasting hours of your time to solve inane puzzles. The rest of us open wiki, look at feedback of other players, do our checklist and be done way much faster. Why bother trying to "figure it out" when all the information and instruction is right there for you to use and save yourself some headache. As always the options are there, SE does not force you to do one or the other.

[Chuk]

Sorry to confuse, but im not against people looking things up or community discussion, wiki is a fine thing. In that case you are simply doing what others have figured out and have communally left behind so other players can see how it was done. My original post was in response to the overwhelming demand to be told how everything works by the developers. The idea of exploring a games mechanics and layout is the whole point to gaming. If you knew how a book series ended, would you read the book? You certainly dont ask the author how it ends, they want you to explore their work and enjoy that experience. Video games are no different. I understand limited play time, ever since i started this MMO i have worked full time and always seek to maximize my playtime. But that doesnt mean i should rely on what others say just to play this game, half the fun is the journey. If you simply did everything you were told, life would be dull. Read 1984 by George Orwell. Thats the kind of future i dont want for FFXI.

Also the only thing im nostalgic about in FFXI is the community. Before the wiki, people really did discuss things like gear swaping, subjob advantages, and quests. And i seriously doubt everyone has explored every inch of the game. So until then, you really havent seen everything. If the fresh feeling of exploration has worn off with you, then tHats a clear sign you are not having fun with this game any more.