Cure V, Raise II Where?

[rog]

Pretty sure it was nothing > 75> 50
could be wrong i guess, been a while

I could swear they got it right when the level cap went up to 75. If not, then it wouldn't be the first time i was wrong.

[Xikeroth]

I don't think RDM should get cure 5 or 6 to be honest, if anything SCH should get cure 5 but we need to keep WHM as the dominant healer so we have hopes to do more then curebot

[RaenRyong]

Keeping WHM as the dominant (read: only) healer is stupid for game balance. Would you complain if there was only one viable DD?

[Silvers]

Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way? The way Curasa been described, it's sounds like the Afflatus Misery+Cura system without using a JA. I think that would throw off the balance even more in (that would be better slap to the face to WHM, then the one RDM recieve by BRD getting Fencer). I always though that what Afflatus Misery does for Cura would be nice for all cure spells. If another job was to recieve Misery or a similar JA, I find myself looking at PLD (but that's just me). Could be better off it the adjusted the enmity for Cure 5 for jobs other than WHM as stated before. If giving RDM and SCH Cure 5 would move things backwards, then maybe that's how we should look at things. What I mean by that is that we should look at how to preserve or retain job balance when giving them Cure 5. I believe SE has thought about WHM's MP effiency and that's why these stats was added to WHM's AF3 legs:

Orison Pantaloons +1
[Legs] All Races
DEF: 39 MND +5
Healing magic casting time -8%
Converts 2% of "Cure" amount to MP
"Divine Benison" +1
Lv. 83 WHM

Orison Pantaloons +2
[Legs] All Races
DEF: 41 MND +7
Healing magic casting time -12%
Converts 5% of Cure amount to MP
Divine Benison +1
Set: Augments elemental resistance spells
Lv. 83 WHM
taken from ffxiclopedia.org

Giving RDM Cure 5 is not lazy idea, actually you could say it's quite practical. What would be lazy, is giving them the spell without addressing the known issues that it could possibly generate in doing so. Adding another 1-2 pieces with "Converts x% of Cure amount to MP" could be the answer. Maybe the development team is already on top, at least I'm hoping they are.

[Trangnai]

Keeping WHM as the dominant (read: only) healer is stupid for game balance. Would you complain if there was only one viable DD?

How in the world is whm being the best healer unbalanced? also comparing it to DD which at least 12 out of the 20 jobs we have happen to be makes your point kinda moot. Our curing ability is fine, also, sch should have Cure V (under addendum: white at least) more then rdm should have it, if we do get it, it shouldn't be till 96 where cure IV is subbable with rdm. You're also saying that rdm isnt able to heal now, which it is, its just not Dominant, and shouldent be, its red mage not white mage, if you want white mage level white mage.

[Mojo]

Red Mage is not capable of adequate healing inside of Abyssea. If you think it is, then you've never tried having a lone Red Mage healer while doing any NMs that actually require a respectable healer. Cure IV is pathetically inadequate inside of Abyssea. If you think otherwise, try duoing something like Pantokrator with a MNK and get back to me on how it goes.

[Yekyaa]

Honestly, WHMs are easily replaced with a second character. I know plenty of my linkshell members who dualbox a second character as WHM when the occassion calls for it. Typically this is done when they don't want to play WHM at all and instead DD for the fun of it.
Maybe I'm coming from the wrong mentality on it. I see the concerns existing WHMs have, but I think the fears are unfounded. WHM/RDM before at 82+ still has Refresh and Convert, and that doesn't change just because RDM gets Cure V at whatever level it gets assigned. The level progression is there, and so far it's been applied to elemental spells (Stone/Water/Aero/Fire/Blizzard IV and soon to be Thunder IV). Our nuking power was always decent for the work we applied it to with Blizzard III and that was at 75. Healing Magic on RDM imo is the only thing that's stagnated.

          RDM     WHM
Cure        3       1
Cure II    14      11
Cure III   26      21
Cure IV    48      41
Cure V     ??      61
Cure VI    ??      80
Raise      38      25
Raise II   ??      56
Raise III  ??      70

As you can see, RDMs level progression with Cure started at level 3 and progressed to the next tier at 11, 12, 12.
WHM started at 1 (of course) and progressed 10, 10, 20, 20, 19 (possibly 19 for next tier if SE so chooses).

If it continues without an addition to RDMs line of healing, when level 99 arrives, anyone can /RDM and get Cure IV while still having Convert and Refresh.
I welcome any addition to my healing line of magic, the statement to give RDM Cure V was
more a quick and dirty solution to continue our existing natural progression.
Hell even a modded Cure V with the original enmity rules would be better than spamming two Cure IV's back to back and
pulling MORE enmity than a Cure IV, Cure V, and Cure VI back to back on WHM.

Regarding Raise, the exact same progression(or currently lack thereof) with WHM. Starting at 25, it goes 31, 14... One can only assume they weren't given Raise II at level 50 to keep some form of challenge in the game.

With RDM, even if you assume a 2x level difference starting at 38, adding 38 puts you at 76... even allowing for a 50 level difference (which is MORE than the difference between Raise and Raise III on WHM) we still should've seen it at 88...
That was kind of where I was expecting to use it.

61 level progression (mind you it's extreme) puts it at level 99... But that's the same level progression it takes to get 5 tiers of Cure and 2 tiers of Raise on WHM... Raise II's xp difference is not that great a deal that it would be game-breaking to give us a second Raise we could use in the event of a partial Alliance wipe and it's useless when we solo anyway, so where's a valid counterargument?
It can't be subbed; SCH gets it at level 70(addendum:white) but their Cure IV(native) comes at level 55...
SCH for Cure btw was 12, 13, 25. Worst case scenario it should be Addendum: White for Cure V at 93 (12, 13, 25, 38)

I just don't see how these spells were overlooked in the initial 3 level increases. I would rather see if there's any consideration for adding these spells or some equivalent to RDM (please) and/or SCH at any point. SCH I don't play so whenever they get it, they get it idc, I just figured I'd toss the argument out.

[Trangnai]

Red Mage is not capable of adequate healing inside of Abyssea. If you think it is, then you've never tried having a lone Red Mage healer while doing any NMs that actually require a respectable healer. Cure IV is pathetically inadequate inside of Abyssea. If you think otherwise, try duoing something like Pantokrator with a MNK and get back to me on how it goes.

Yes, because all mobs should be duoable by a mnk and a healer to begin with, you people complain the game is broken but seem to instantly forget how easy its become. I have done low-man healing but nothing of the mnk with healer duo nature. and I've healed plenty fine. if your saying we should replace whm with a rdm why don't we replace mnk with another job and see how that goes as well?

I personally still don't see the issue, alot of you complain like you leveled rdm expecting it to be a better healer then whm. and because its not that thats what you want. but maybe the lack of cure V is to show that SE dosent want use becoming curebots again. I would feel more inclined to it at 95-96ish as well as getting raise II within that time frame. Ether way we would still get it.

[Seriha]

I'd rather us have better damage prevention than restorative abilities. This lends itself fairly well to more enfeebles, but from the ATK perspective, Bio is rarely preferred over Dia and even when fiddling with a mob's ATK, they still have stupid high damage ratings relative to their attack delay. From the math perspective, an enfeeble that hurts that would do more in nerfing the amount we'd need to cure even if stuck in a main heal position. Blind actually has similar issues, since tweaking a mob's ACC is rather pointless unless you're dealing with an evasion tank (this died off when PLD gained steam, but is admittedly regaining some ground in low-man with Abyssea offering both AGI and EVA buffs... but Abyssea might not be forever~). Enfeebles to greatly diminish MACC/MATK/MDMG are also a possibility on the other side of the damage spectrum.

[RaenRyong]

You CAN replace the mnk with another melee. You CANNOT replace the whm with another healer.

See the problem?

We don't want RDM to be better, we want RDM to be VIABLE.