Cure V, Raise II Where?

[Mojo]

Dunno what's so hard to understand about it, but giving RDM & SCH Cure V would not put WHM out of a job. They have far too many other benefits that would make them superior. The truth is that inside Abyssea, neither RDM nor SCH are even viable options without Cure V.

[rog]

You have options. You're just choosing not to use them.

Option A: use a job that CAN cure, cure faster, (arguably more frequently) that can also Enfeeble(Cripple really), Nuke, etc lowering the need for more cures/larger cures.

or:

Option B: use a job that can cure for greater amounts, but does not possess any real ability to impede the mob in any meaningful way or do damage to the mob either.

Whm still has slow1, which caps at 29.3%. That really isn't that much worse than slow2.

If a dd was needed, a dd would be invited. Not sure why you even mentioned that.

Rdm can NOT cure faster than whm. They both easily cap cast time for cures.

They also cannot cure more frequently, since whm has both cure 5 and 6 which can easily be alternated for high hp cures very frequently, and then also cure4 as a third viable cure. Rdm only has one cure that's even worth casting.

The choice between rdm and whm as a healer is an illusion. Only one of them can really get the job done.

[Bigboy]

Dunno what's so hard to understand about it, but giving RDM & SCH Cure V would not put WHM out of a job. They have far too many other benefits that would make them superior. The truth is that inside Abyssea, neither RDM nor SCH are even viable options without Cure V.

I don't believe this is true. As a RDM, not only have I been a viable option all through Abyssea, but I am generally preferred over a WHM, even on NMs as I have so many more trigger spells.

That doesn't mean that I don't want Cure V. I just know that what I am asking for is broken and selfish on my part. lol

[Tamarsamar]

Red Mages are not dedicated healers. They never should have been, and they never should be.

And for everybody making the "inside Abyssea" argument . . . even ignoring the fact that inside Abyssea we can totally do other things beside healing . . . are you even thinking about when Abyssea is made obsolete one year from now, at the rate FFXI seems to be progressing?

[Daniel]

I think the point here is in that RDM was meant to be a support job capable of decent cures, but right now we are not any more capable than SMN, BLM, and we are outdone by SCH, BLU and DNC. What some of you don't seem to understand is that RDM was only predominant in exp parties. For end game WHM was just as popular as RDM, in some cases even more. Whm will still continue to be dominant because of spells like Curaga IV which costs only 230 mp (With AV3 +2 pants is practically free), as well as more potent bar spells.

[Bigboy]

Whm still has slow1, which caps at 29.3%. That really isn't that much worse than slow2.

If a dd was needed, a dd would be invited. Not sure why you even mentioned that.

Rdm can NOT cure faster than whm. They both easily cap cast time for cures.

They also cannot cure more frequently, since whm has both cure 5 and 6 which can easily be alternated for high hp cures very frequently, and then also cure4 as a third viable cure. Rdm only has one cure that's even worth casting.

The choice between rdm and whm as a healer is an illusion. Only one of them can really get the job done.

So you admit a deficiency on their part (This is a game where a few % make a huge difference). Then you go on to say that RDM doesn't cure faster that WHM... Well at this point, it's obvious you haven't been playing the job.

A cure that lands earlier for less saves more lives for one too slow to get there before death.

I could go on about how you don't understand that Cure V is nearly hate free and giving RDM a quick, spammable, low hate, huge cure would remove the need for any other healing classes in the game, but this information has been available for years now, and if you don't know how to look up the spell characteristics now, I cant expect you to go do so now, just because someone disagreed with you.

[Yekyaa]

Red Mages are not dedicated healers. They never should have been, and they never should be.

And for everybody making the "inside Abyssea" argument . . . even ignoring the fact that inside Abyssea we can totally do other things beside healing . . . are you even thinking about when Abyssea is made obsolete one year from now, at the rate FFXI seems to be progressing?

This has become nothing but a flame war with WHMs complaining that they have to level RDM to compete.

There was a previous post asking why we don't bug em for Tier V... the answer to that is, it's because we got Tier IV spells. The natural progression of our given skill has not been broken, however with Healing Magic it has been.
White Mage is NOT the only job with Healing Magic skill. SMN and BLM don't get Healing Magic skill natively and they can cure just as well as I can in Abyssea (SMN more so because of the addition of Carby).

It's past due on Cure V and it has NOTHING to do with replacing WHMs. Honestly I don't like main healing, but when I'm asked to do it on RDM because of the other options I bring to the table (this is with the currently existing Cure IV only) it gets to be frustrating. It's something I've noticed RDMs are lacking, and that my original motivation. The White Mages thinking we're trying to replace them need to get their "I need to be special" stick out of their rears. There's more than one tank job, there's numerous other DDs, there's more than ONE healing job. WHM isn't the only one. Stop treating it like it is. There are others here as well. As far as competition, this never was a competition. It's not like we're all sitting in Port Jeuno now with our flags up looking for a party to get us that last merit point. Competition isn't even in the mix anymore.
My Linkshell brings WHMs when it's necessary (read: Cure IV just doesn't cut it and the extra -na spells are a bonus).
The problem is, there's no freakin' WHMs wanting to join LSs. In this case, give me SOMETHING in regards to healing than some less than optimal Cure Potency gear and a Cure IV spam. Make Healing Magic MATTER even. SOMETHING.

[rog]

So you admit a deficiency on their part (This is a game where a few % make a huge difference). Then you go on to say that RDM doesn't cure faster that WHM... Well at this point, it's obvious you haven't been playing the job.

A cure that lands earlier for less saves more lives for one too slow to get there before death.

I could go on about how you don't understand that Cure V is nearly hate free and giving RDM a quick, spammable, low hate, huge cure would remove the need for any other healing classes in the game, but this information has been available for years now, and if you don't know how to look up the spell characteristics now, I cant expect you to go do so now, just because someone disagreed with you.

Yes, obviously rdm is a better enfeebler.

lol? Rdm easily hits 50% fast cast, and whm hits -50% cure cast time (or some combination of -cct+fc). These are the caps, and neither job has an advantage.

Not sure why hate really matters much. Unless there is a hate reset, or you're also nuking a lot, it doesn't matter, and even then, rdm can easily survive whatever might be attacking us, so it's not a big deal.

[Tamarsamar]

Really, a lot of us are simply scared, possibly even irrationally, of a return to the ToAU days, which, really, I can only think of one person who really wants that . . .

I suppose a lot of it's unfounded, given that subbable Convert and Refresh means that we won't necessarily outlast everybody and their mothers any more. I'd personally still rather get Fencer before Cure V, though . . .

Also, I laugh at anybody who's worried about generating hate on RDM--we seriously can't generate hate if we tried (see: RDM tanking thread).

[Valkrist]

Personal opinion, if RDM got Cure V, I wouldn't invite a WHM. You would have someone that more or less does the same thing as WHM and then they're capable of Refresh II and stacking heavy debuffs on the target. The only time WHM would become useful is if magic damage taken was involved. You're certainly not inviting a WHM for their Cure VI, or slightly bigger Cure Vs.

I feel that this argument is really nothing more than RDMs and SCHs wanting to main-heal against high damage doing NMs, which again has always been the role of a WHM even at level 75 cap.

The entitlement argument really doesn't have any sound ground which I hear a lot of. It's like players saying that since they've played FFXI from day one deserve 10 million gil for every year that they've been playing. Sure it'd make those players extremely happy and the other players jealous, but I can not see the entitlement argument being there for anything but to cuddle one group of people.

Again, I'm a level 90 WHM, RDM and SCH. I enjoy playing those jobs and would love to see improvement to all three, but I would hate to see an improvement to a job that doesn't provide a sound reason to why it needs said improvement when it significantly impacts another job in a potentially negative way.

I'm not discounting that RDM and SCH shouldn't get a bigger Cure than Cure IV, but asking for Cure V most definitely effects WHM in a very negative way. I'm sure people are going to make fun of that statement and say something along the lines of, "so you want us to have a cure 4.5 then?" In a sense, yes. Cure 4.5 would most definitely be a new spell that fits into the groove between Cure IV and V. Would the spell really be called Cure 4.5, probably not... I don't think SE would be silly enough to name a spell like that.