New 2-hour Abilities

[Demon6324236]

Problem is, its on one, and if we show we like it even a little bit, no matter how or why, we will be stuck with it forever on this timer.

[Camate]

Hello!

I don't normally say this, but you've got to cut the devs some slack on the Meikyo Shisui one. If you think about how mobs perform tp moves it would be very difficult to program the Meikyo Shisui as an actual "buff." It would seemingly require a complete recoding of mob's tp mechanisms because they don't "normally" use their tp moves as soon as they have 100 tp, unless their hp is below 25%. You'd have to create a check of some sort, if mob has Meikyo Shisui then use tp move if tp is over 100. However, I'm sure with SE's programming, this would require a reprogramming of every mob that uses Meikyo Shisui.

I'm sure Astral Flow works similarly, the mob doesn't actually gain a buff, the avatar is just programmed to use its respective 2-hour whenever the dust cloud goes off for X minutes.

That said, it would be nice if the THF SP2 inflicted the mob with an amnesia of some sort so the proceeding effects of the mob's SP1 fail. It's not like a THF would actually have any use for astral flow, but the ability to prevent a mob from using it would be very valuable.

We looked into your suggestion, but with the current specs of the game, even if we were to make it so amnesia was inflicted on the enemy, once it wears off the monster would proceed to use their weapon skills in succession (they do not lose their TP), so it was thought that this would not be much of a help.

Additionally, it’s not possible to make so the system determines whether Meikyo Shisui or another ability is active and inflicts amnesia, so it would have to be inflicted regardless of the ability you are aiming to steal, which would largely change the nature of the ability. Due to this we would have to recreate the entire ability.

While it is unfortunate, it is very difficult to address Meikyo Shisui and Astral Flow with this ability.

[Alhanelem]

Hello!



We looked into your suggestion, but with the current specs of the game, even if we were to make it so amnesia was inflicted on the enemy, once it wears off the monster would proceed to use their weapon skills in succession (they do not lose their TP), so it was thought that this would not be much of a help.

Additionally, it’s not possible to make so the system determines whether Meikyo Shisui or another ability is active and inflicts amnesia, so it would have to be inflicted regardless of the ability you are aiming to steal, which would largely change the nature of the ability. Due to this we would have to recreate the entire ability.

While it is unfortunate, it is very difficult to address Meikyo Shisui and Astral Flow with this ability.

What about adjusting the nature of how monsters recieve these abilities, and just giving them the player buff effects (or a "dummy" effect) anyway since they won't do anything for the monster? Then you can check to see if this buff has been removed, and if it is, take the monster's TP away or remove the astral flow ability from the avatar.

As far as astral flow, I always thought they got the real effect because I could swear if you kept an avatar incapacitated long enough, they would lose the use of the 2hour ability.

You want specific suggestions on how to implement a solution, here is one.

(edit: On the flip side, I think thieves are not considering the utility of receiving the buff effect themselves- only the removal of the effect from the enemy- What thief wouldn't love to have Mighty Strikes or Blood Weapon or Hundred Fists? this being said, this should probably not be implemented if it can't be applied to all SP1 effects)

[Nebo]

Hello! We looked into your suggestion, but with the current specs of the game, even if we were to make it so amnesia was inflicted on the enemy, once it wears off the monster would proceed to use their weapon skills in succession (they do not lose their TP), so it was thought that this would not be much of a help.

Additionally, it’s not possible to make so the system determines whether Meikyo Shisui or another ability is active and inflicts amnesia, so it would have to be inflicted regardless of the ability you are aiming to steal, which would largely change the nature of the ability. Due to this we would have to recreate the entire ability.

While it is unfortunate, it is very difficult to address Meikyo Shisui and Astral Flow with this ability.

That IS unfortunate. Because this ability was already pretty weak before we found out that it doesn't work on Meikyo Shishui.

Its not like SAM SP1 is the end of the world, but this ability needed something extra added to it to be a viable SP2 BEFORE we found out it didn't work on SAM SP1.

The ability to steal one SP1 ability every hour may sound useful to some players, but it will face the same utility bottleneck that Aurasteal does: The overwhelming majority of content just doesn't have useful, dispellable or Stealable enhancement effects...and most of the ones that would be useful and desirable, CAN'T be stolen or dispelled by Aurasteal...sound familiar?

THF new SP2 in practice:

• The majority of NMs do not use SP1
  *The majority of the ones that do usually use them more than once. So again, groups will bring SMN or RDM or SCH...Better jobs with better Spells and Abilities to deal with Devastating SP1. (don't say it. No one is bringing more than one THF to anything)
• The majority of SP1 cannot be stolen or are inconsequential (Perfect Dodge, Invincible etc)
• The majority of SP1 that can be stolen are useless for a THF to "steal." So it's essentially just a utlity dispel for the few ones where it works and might be relevant.

"BUT it also steals regular enhancements just like Aurasteal!"

Exactly. You gave us Aurasteal -1 for 99% of game content. No thanks. Aurasteal can already steal two enhancements. Whereas this weak SP2 can only steal one.

THF SP2 Needs adjustment. The 1% of content where it will be useful does not outweigh the 99% of the content where it will be Aurasteal -1. The way it exists currently is not worthy of its recast timer.

I suppose this fits in with THF tradition though, as almost all of our abilities are not worthy of their long and shared recast timers: Mug, Steal, Aurasteal, Despoil, Hide, Flee, Accomplice, Collaborator, Conspirator.....etc.

Sorry, I'll just shut up. THF will stay weak. Nothing to see here.

[Nebo]

Ahem. Specific Suggestions and all that:

• THF SP2: Steals All Enhancement Effects on Current Target (Including status granting SP1 Abilities)
• THF SP2: Steals The SP1 from the target before they use it (Prevents SP1 Use).
• THF SP2: In addition to stealing an enhancement effect (including status granting SP1 Abilities) Steals a massive amount of HP (at least enough to heal the THF to full).
• THF SP2: In addition to stealing one enhancement effect (including status granting SP1 Abilities) Steals 300 TP + resets Sneak attack, Trick Attack and Bully Timers.
• THF SP2: In addition to stealing one enhancement effect (including status granting SP1 Abilities), steals the monster's critical hit rate defense (+Critical Hit Rate for Alliance).

[Yarly]

There's like only 11 SP1 that are buffs that you can steal.
Of those 11, 5 of them are usable by THF and not just stolen as a means to disable the sp1. 6, assuming you are THF/DNC and you can steal Trance from the massive number of DNC-type monsters and you get the benefit of Trance despite not being DNC main. By usable, I just mean it benefits the THF in some tangible way which generously includes Perfect Dodge and Invincible.

I don't even know if there are any SCH-type monsters to steal Tabula Rasa from but I guess it'd be applicable in Ballista.

[FrankReynolds]

Hello!



We looked into your suggestion, but with the current specs of the game, even if we were to make it so amnesia was inflicted on the enemy, once it wears off the monster would proceed to use their weapon skills in succession (they do not lose their TP), so it was thought that this would not be much of a help.

Additionally, it’s not possible to make so the system determines whether Meikyo Shisui or another ability is active and inflicts amnesia, so it would have to be inflicted regardless of the ability you are aiming to steal, which would largely change the nature of the ability. Due to this we would have to recreate the entire ability.

While it is unfortunate, it is very difficult to address Meikyo Shisui and Astral Flow with this ability.

Maybe it's time to throw in the towel...

[Motenten]

Ahem. Specific Suggestions and all that:

• THF SP2: Steals All Enhancement Effects on Current Target (Including status granting SP1)
• THF SP2: Steals The SP1 from the target before they use it (Prevents SP1 Use).
• THF SP2: In addition to stealing an enhancement effect (including status granting SP1 Abilities) Steals a massive amount of HP (at least enough to heal the THF to full).
• THF SP2: In addition to stealing one enhancement effect (including status granting SP1 Abilities) Steals 300 TP + resets Sneak attack, Trick Attack and Bully Timers.
• THF SP2:In addition to stealing one enhancement effect (including status granting SP1 Abilities), steals the monster's critical hit defense (+Critical Hit Rate for Alliance).

All interesting, but I think I like the fourth one best. Might limit it to just stealing all of the mob's current TP instead of the arbitrary 300 TP value, though. Certainly wouldn't consider that unbalanced, considering drk's SP2, and the timer reset would generally allow the thf to immediately use a stacked weaponskill along with it.

[Arcon]

THF SP2: Steals All Enhancement Effects on Current Target (Including status granting SP1)

What's a "status granting SP1"? This would be better than what we're getting right now. How much better? Not much at all. Effectively the same thing. Stealing Chainspell is bitchworthy, but stealing Chainspell and Aquaveil is amazing?

THF SP2: Steals The SP1 from the target before they use it (Prevents SP1 Use).

Would be hard to use strategically, harder than what we're getting. May end up being worse depending on how they implement it (and let's not kid ourselves, it's SE).

THF SP2: In addition to stealing an enhancement effect (including status granting SP1 Abilities) Steals a massive amount of HP (at least enough to heal the THF to full).

Sounds good. Still not much better than what we're currently getting.

THF SP2: In addition to stealing one enhancement effect (including status granting SP1 Abilities) Steals 300 TP + resets Sneak attack, Trick Attack and Bully Timers.

See above. Not much better than what we're currently getting.

THF SP2:In addition to stealing one enhancement effect (including status granting SP1 Abilities), steals the monster's critical hit defense (+Critical Hit Rate for Alliance).

This is the only suggestion that would be noticeably better than what we're getting right now and depending on the implementation it can be very powerful.

Not that I'd mind any of what you suggest, but none (except for the last) is noticeably better than what the development team came up with. I just don't understand your bitching.

[Nebo]

What's a "status granting SP1"? This would be better than what we're getting right now. How much better? Not much at all. Effectively the same thing. Stealing Chainspell is bitchworthy, but stealing Chainspell and Aquaveil is amazing?

Edit:

A "Status Granting SP1" Is one like Mighty Strikes, Perfect Dodge, Hundred Fists, etc. One that grants a status effect to the Mob. Unlike SAM SP1, Astral Flow, etc that are coded differently for mobs and do not grant them a status effect. See SE's reason that THF SP2 will not work on them.

99% of mobs don't use chainspell. A lot of the ones that do can use it more than once. You don't bring a THF to deal with that, you bring a better job with more utility that can deal with that.

Be that as it may, for the rest of the 99% of content (forgeting that stealing just 1 buff is weaker than Aurasteal). A Dispel ALL kind of move is more useful than stealing one random one. You are right, it's not OMGWTFBBQ better, it's just realistic and better for 99% of content that do not use SP1. And you are Guaranteed to get the buff you are after.

It's also more useful for mobs that use lots of defensive/offensive buffs in conjunction with other Things. So dispelling a defensive buff and their 2 hour etc. Contributing further to the death of the mob in a more "utility" aspect.

Would be hard to use strategically, harder than what we're getting. May end up being worse depending on how they implement it (and let's not kid ourselves, it's SE).

Stealing the ability BEFORE they use it would be harder to use strategically than trying to REACT to it after they use it? I don't understand your argument?

Sounds good. Still not much better than what we're currently getting.

You don't think the ability to steal TP and use a stacked WS right after would be much better than this? I disagree.

Solo, you have the possibility for serious spike damage and SC, as well as in alliances contributing more to DD as well.

See above. Not much better than what we're currently getting.

It might not be MUCH better, but it could be significant if it prevents you from taking a dirt nap while stealing their SP1 at the same time. Time unweakened vs waiting 5 minutes could be the most significant DD buff I suggested to this ability.

This is the only suggestion that would be noticeably better than what we're getting right now and depending on the implementation it can be very powerful.

I agree. It's a nice one.

Not that I'd mind any of what you suggest, but none (except for the last) is noticeably better than what the development team came up with. I just don't understand your bitching.

They are in fact, ALL, noticeably better than what they are suggesting. But I'm not surprised that you don't understand. Likewise, I don't understand your contentment with this weak, HIGHLY SITUATIONAL (even for THF) SP2.

But you and I have rarely ever been on the same page when it comes to THF.