New 2-hour Abilities

[Lastranger]

Hmm also a bit confused about the pld and shc 2 hours, if the sch one was for pld and worked as a constant Area effect zeroing out evyone else enemitty and giving it to selft it might be usefull, then have a thf use his new 2 hour behind pld to bind hate on pally.

At this point idk if more block/defence is what pally's want?
Seems like the new mnk 2 hour just had mnk steal pld's place as nm holder in multi nm zergs
and the War 2 hour is like a rehash of mnk merit ability with a little ++ on top.

The blm one also seems lackluster, why not just add a doubles dmg done with spells for x amount of time.

the drg one has some promise, as others said if it's boost is great ( maybe have the wyvrn get access to mini flail under 2 hour as a pet ability with a tiny stun ) if the wyvrn got like -85% DT or something it might be usefull for those big aoe fighs

the cor one seemed a bit disapointing for a 2hour, a 3rd roll ? thats more like something u could add as tier 3 job meritt not 2 hour, wouldnt something like a luck based boost to curent rolls or Devils luck ability giving the cor loads of TH effect on target be more inline with cor theme ? mayby even a doubles treasure drop ability depending on corr 2 hour roll, giving 2 off evrything in a chest if u lucky out.

[Xilk]

I saw the post and immediately checked bst...
"What?! we are EATING our pet!?" I lol'd and lol'd and lol'd and lol'd... I'm still lolling at the dark humor.

Practically speaking, the merit has already been said: Run Wild's drinking companion.

Our hopes were so high for run wild. The description says it will expire the pet in 5 min, but that was OK, because the description really made it sound like our PETs would burn up all their wild energy DESTROYING our foe... but they just get a nifty regen until they die. I only ever use this when I get the 5 min warning in dynamis. I don't even need to. This has never saved me. I usually forget it exists.

Watered down spirit surge is disappointing in the same way. It sounds like the idea is to save our bacon when we are in a DIRE situation... uhmm Let me explain when a DIRE situation is for bst.. ITS WHEN YOUR PET IS GONE and you can't get'him back! If I wanted to SACRIFICE my pet, it would be to get a Full Spirit Surge effect. I would want the DD output for a ZERG attack. I've already got twilight set for auto RR3 whenever I need it or 1/2 a dozen other great sources for RR.

This is the kind of 2hour a solo bst might have liked years ago when things just went wrong, you are out in the middle of nowhere and you are going to lose the last 2 hours of xp and travel back to camp...

Inverting the direction would be more useful.. putting the master in a weakened state, but completely restoring pet/cure status and give it RERAISE.. but still not great.

I would much rather get a similar effect to the pup's new 2-hour. Let my War pet do mighty strikes, my mnk do 100 fists, my thf pet do perfect dodge, PLD type to invincible, etc... Even better would just be Pet-family specific Super moves.

I agree w/ spankwustler on blue mage and pup as well. The blue mage unbridled learning spells are just not that impressive... I guess you might look at this a defensive blu 2-hour (cuz Azure lore is pretty sweet since it was updated). In that casting bloodrake, hardened shell, pyrhic bulwark all close together could save you in a physical tanking situation... maybe... probably too slow though.. its just not that good. When you have to look for extreme situations to find a use for a 2-HOUR ability... then there's a serious problem.

Pup the idea is really cool. I really liked the idea when I read it, but the practical application really pulls the wind out of its sails.

I like the sustained perfect counter for mnk idea. waiting to see how it goes.

SMN looks like a fun ability
WHM looks useful.. provided it also CURES all status effects first, right? (I mean it SHOULD go w/out saying, but I'm nervous w/ that phrase...)
WAR Thats a plenty useful ability
THF sounds great
DNC sounds great
SAM sounds great
SCH sounds nifty and fun.
blm means you can nuke w/ abandon


I don't have opinion on the rest.

[Theytak]

Alright, raging over pup's 2hour aside,

WAR - Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.

This would be an awesome JA to have situationally, but it's really not 2hour worthy, even if it would easily be stronger than formless strikes, by the nature of formless strikes being non-elemental magical damage, while this implies non-elemental physical damage. Unless the game treats those two as the same thing and I'm just behind on the times.

MNK - Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

I... what. I know you guys announced this one at vanafest, but it still doesn't make sense, because it's basically an offensive version of perfect dodge, that's not even as good for staying alive because you can't counter TP moves (which is a fair trade for the damage gain). However... why in the world would you put enmity gain on this? It makes absolutely no sense...

WHM - Grants party members protection from status ailments.

Party-wide Fealty? That's useful, at least. Somewhat situational, but useful nonetheless.

BLM - Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.

This will depend entirely on the duration and the amount of the reduction. Looking at the rest of this list, though, my money's on "It won't be enough to matter."

RDM - Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

That's awesome, you know, for all of those self-target only buffs that don't really get any use because rdm can't cast them on anyone else, so it basically just means they get to 2hour and buff refresh II/haste, for ghetto embrava, hold the regain. Seriously, what in the world are the devs thinking?

THF - Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front.

This is a very nice option for thf. The devs get points for this one.

PLD - Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

So you're basically giving pld palisade and reprisal. Again. On a 2 hour recast timer. At the cost of Invincible. Did you guys put any thought into this, or did you forget that you added palisade?

DRK - Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

This is going depend heavily on two things; its proc rate, and its potency. If it lasts as long as blood weapon, it should be fine. However, if its potency is not respectable (read: 2-5 TP drained is not respectable), and/or it's proc rate is not 100%, it will be be very hard justifying it over the souleater+bloodweapon combo. If it's a moderate (at least 50%) proc rate, it needs to have a significant amount of TP drain per hit. If it's 100% proc rate, it can afford a lower TP drain due to the nature of how strong it would be in high haste situations.

BST - Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

This is just garbage. Bst is the one pet job that DOESN'T benefit from auto-killing their pet for a JA. Smns can belt out new pets every couple of seconds, and drg wyverns are basically just their for extra TP in jumps and healing breaths. Pup can survive and thrive on its own even without a pet, and probably would have benefited from a spirit surge-esque ability like this (however, trading your pet for ghetto benediction and reraise is just stupid; at the very least it should function the same way as spirit surge: buffs and extra TP).

BRD - Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.

Shared recast means this will never get used, because Soulvoice is better in every way. However, Soul Voice is so amazing as it is, it's understandable, I can't even fathom anything else being able to come close to soul voice in terms of usefulness.

RNG - The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.

Congratulations, you've managed to do better than Eagle Eye Shot. This isn't even remotely worth a 2 hour recast timer, but it's better than Eagle Eye Shot. Seriously, what kind of 2 hour can miss...

SAM - While the ability is in effect, all damage caused by the physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.

Shared recast means this will never get used, because Meikyo Shisui is better in every way.

NIN - Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.

Whether or not this is more useful than Mijin Gakure doesn't really matter, since it's basically just Issekigan on a 2 hour timer with added Ninja Tool Expertise and Recast Reduction. I'd say it would be a lot more useful even if you'd added "Ninjutsu casting times will be reduced by 50%" as well.

DRG - Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.

....so you're giving drg the modern equivalent of Call Wyvern as their 2 hour again....

SMN - The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

This one is hot, the devs get points for this.

BLU - While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.

Shared recast means this will never get used, because azure lore is better in every way.

COR - Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.

This doesn't really seem like it should be a 2hour, so much as it should be something you slapped on Death Penalty, the way brd has Daurdabla.

DNC - Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.
Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Move will not be consumed.

This was a lot more impressive in the google translated version, which made it sound like it was setting the flourish recasts to 0 as well, but it's still not that bad.

SCH - Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.

Why did you give this to scholar? Shared recast means this will never get used, because Tabula Rasa, by which I mean Embrava, is better in every way. Both pld and nin would make far, far, far better use of this ability...

So....

Thf is very good.
Smn is very good.
Drk is potentially very good
Dnc is potentially good
Whm is useful
Blm is potentially useful

Cor is potentially useful but whether or not it's really fair to give them this as a 2hour, and not as something else, is questionable.
Mnk is potentially useful, but the enmity is a really weird point and may become an issue
War is potentially useful, but not really 2hour material
Rdm is... good in theory, but made pointless because rdm is not able to actually benefit from many of its self-only buffs (lookin' at you, Temper) so this really just gives rdm a ghetto soulvoice/embrava substitute. It's not the worst by any stretch, but it could use a lot of work.

Brd might be useful, but it won't ever be worth using over soul voice.
Sam probably won't ever get used over Meikyo shisui, and isn't really 2 hour material anyway.
Blu is made useless by the fact that none of the unbridled learning spells are worth using, and and spamming them won't ever be able to touch the things Azure Lore can do, so this new ability will never be used.
Sch is incredibly useful in theory, but because you want to give it to SCHOLAR, it will never get used, because it will never out weigh Embrava. Give sch's ability to pld or nin, seriously.

Rng is an improvement over Eagle Eye Shot, but isn't really 2 hour material
Nin is a repeat of another ability, but is situationally an improvement over Mijin Gakure. It should be better, but it's not absolutely terrible.

Pld is absolutely pointless because pld already has that exact ability in palisade (with reprisal up) on a much, much, much shorter recast timer.
Bst is utterly worthless
Drg is utterly worthless
Pup is utterly worthless

So the final score is:
Good Abilities: 3/20 ~ 6/20 (depending on potentially good abilities)
Potentially Good Abilities: 3/20
Abilities that aren't bad but probably need rethinking: 8/20 (including the next category)
Abilities that aren't necessarily bad, won't ever get used because of the other 2hour: 4/20
Abilities that are better than their old option, only because the old option was terrible: 2/20
Abilities that need to be completely scrapped and something else considered instead: 4/20

So in other words, 6 managed to get 6 right, and the rest of them need to be looked at, and several of them thrown out entirely.

[FrankReynolds]

WAR Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.

Sounds neat. I'm not sure this really warrants a 2hr cool down, but it's probably got a use or two.

MNK Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.

This sounds like it would be useful for blocking 100 fists and / or 1-2 other things. Just doesn't sound that great considering that regular attacks aren't really a major concern like aoe / magic stuff is.

WHM Grants party members protection from status ailments.

This could be extremely useful on NMs that spam that sort of stuff.

BLM Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.

Should just change this to "removes all enmity from magic attacks"

RDM Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.

This could go soooo well, or sooooo wrong. I expect the latter based on previous experiences.

THF Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.

So trick attack on a 2 hour timer? what did I ever do to you?

PLD Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

see monk

DRK Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.

Will this literally steal TP? If so it could be a great way to keep TP moves in check while crushing NMS. Will this be nerfed for K-clubs as well?

BST Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.

If by "absorbs the pet", you mean that the master will add all of the pets stats / abilities to his own, then great (I know this isn't what you meant). Otherwise this sucks. Just plain sucks.

BRD Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.

I can't picture this being better than current 2 hr ever, but sure...

RNG The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.

Seems cool

SAM All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.

This seems like it would have very limited usage, especially if the increase in ws damage isn't awesome.

NIN Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.

I could see where this would be extremely handy, especially when compared to suicide.

DRG Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.

If this makes the DRG insanely strong, then yay. Otherwise meh.

SMN The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.

This actually sounds pretty kick ass (unless it only lasts like 10 seconds).

BLU While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.

hmmmm...

DNC Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset. Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.

I picture this getting screwed up more often than not when in actual use (ie. mob stuns you / amnesias you etc.).

SCH Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.

Why isn't this a Thief ability on a 20 minute timer?

[Oakrest]

[PLD] Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.

What an insult to my Ochain! How about some damage or enmity control instead? Don't we already have Reprisal? This is just adding a duplicate of that spell in job-ability form. Even for non-relic paladins, having more shield block is going to do nothing when the mob is facing the thf or the mnk or the [insert fast melee job here]... please understand my good intentions with this feedback

Please don't let pld become more and more useless ...

[FrankReynolds]

However... why in the world would you put enmity gain on this? It makes absolutely no sense...

because this does absolutely nothing if the mob doesn't attack you.

[Alistaire]

Some of these are truly awful. Take them back to the drawing board and try again.

Most of these are truly awful. The designers should really play this game sometime; despite how horribly they manage it, it's a pretty cool game.

[scaevola]

I think the RDM one would come down to whether it can buff enhancing spells that don't normally scale that well/at all. Mega Phalanx/Pro/Shell/Barspell with Accession is not Perfect Defense, but it has some potential (especially since that Proshell will be lasting the whole half hour; I'd love running around with a 350 defense ProV and a 35% Shell for the entirety of a small-group event), especially since RDM can then bring some other stuff to the table with its two-hour, like Hella Enspells.

Once again, duration's going to be important to that one, if only because it will dictate how many self-buffs you can Accession out. I wouldn't say it's a balls-out amazing 2-hour (i mean, how would i even know at this point) but the durations of the buffs you apply with it make it worth a second look. I don't play RDM like at all; could anyone tell me if Composure's durational extensions apply to party members when you Accession out those buffs?

[Zhronne]

Mnk is potentially useful, but the enmity is a really weird point and may become an issue

I think they meant it as a tank-like ability. That probably was their idea altough... since when do you rely on a job who can tank once every 2hrs supposedly for 1 min or slightly more?
Since when does MNK need this to keep hate from other jobs?
Still, it's a defensive additional option, why not having it and using it situationally.
Another good part of having enmity is that the mob will be facing you => you will be countering => more damage.
You can't counter if mob is facing someone else of course.
I dunno, this is probably not what I was looking like but it has potential.

Brd might be useful, but it won't ever be worth using over soul voice.

Seriously, this should have been a song, with much lower potency of course.
Using it as a 2hr... uh... if it sticks 100% of the itme (lol@using it and seeing it resisted!) and lasts A LOT of time, it might be useful on some fights actually.

Sam probably won't ever get used over Meikyo shisui, and isn't really 2 hour material anyway.

I think you're greatly underestimating this.
It depends on how much it lasts of course, but think about a good sam with a good defensive setup, like the ones we used to have when we killed Atoreis with SAM tanks, imagine them using this skill and shooting powerful WS.
It depends on a lot of factors like how long it lasts and how much it boosts WSs, if this boosts "reset" when you take damage etc.
But potentially it's a pretty awesome alternative to Meikyo Shisui.
SAM already has an awesome offensive 2hr, this one just offers a defensive/offensive alternative, I like it a lot on paper.

Sch is incredibly useful in theory, but because you want to give it to SCHOLAR, it will never get used, because it will never out weigh Embrava. Give sch's ability to pld or nin, seriously. [/quote]
Incredibly useful? Really? To be able to move enmity on someone? So much enmity that probably would go mostly wasted because of the enmity cap?
And you can use it once ecery 2hr? Sounds pretty preposterous to me lol

Rng is an improvement over Eagle Eye Shot, but isn't really 2 hour material

Why not? Sounds nice to me, not just "better than EES". I like it personally. Won't gamebreaking but it looks like a nice 2hr, especially for Annihilator owners!

Pld is absolutely pointless because pld already has that exact ability in palisade (with reprisal up) on a much, much, much shorter recast timer.

Well if it makes your shield activate more than an Ochain, lasts long enough and returns A LOT of damage, it could be nice.
Honestly I was expecting them to give PLD a magic damage Invincible, guess that would have been too obvious...

Pup is utterly worthless

As much as I agree with the points you exposed earlier and with this JA looking nice to who doesn't know PUP very well but being shit in reality, I don't agree with your extreme pessimism.
Doesn't look worse than Overdrive to me. Benediction is cool (did you seriously expect them to give us a full party benediction? Can you imagine the rants from WHMs?).
Invincible on Valoredge is a bit... ehr... well let's say it's not completely useless, depending on how much it lasts, but try not to be too much disappointed just because you "wanted Mighty Strikes for VE".
EES won't necessarily do less damage than Armor Shatter. If the damage is interesting you could use it right after an armorshatter and stack a lot of spike damage in a few seconds. Not awesome but, again, sounds better than Overdrive.
Chainspell too looks really nice on paper to me, altough MP might become an issue there. Doubt we'll be able to ADD and keep the 2hr buff up.
All in all the spiritreaver one looks the most ridiculous to me because, like you already said, we virtually have infinite MP in most situations.
For BLM doll Overdrive is probably a better 2hr, especially with the +15 additional seconds from AF. Alllows to spam Ice Maker for 60 seconds etc.
lolOverdrive ist better for Valoredge too if you want damage, but the new 2hr gives you an ADDITIONAL option, while the new 2hr looks much better for Stormwaker, Soulsoother and lolHarlequin.

Dunno, this is not an awesome 2hr but it looks better than Overdrive.
What were you expecting for PUP, seriously?


What leaves me a bit skeptic is the fact that, imho, these 2hr will have to be unlocked with merit points just like WS, and there will be a cap so you won't be able to get all of them =/

[Oakrest]

I'm seriously concerned as to who the 5 people were that liked the OP - you either didn't read all of the job 2 hours, or are one of the very few jobs in that list that got something useful (i.e. thf). That, or 5 dev's liked it ^^