New 2-hour Abilities

[saevel]

Most of the *new* 2hr's are complete crap, either far to short a duration or to weak an effect to be useful. A few are good though highly situational.

Camate could the devs look to shorten the recasts of all "2 hours" into something like 30 minutes? The game has changed significantly since 2002 and the idea of any ability being on a 120 minute timer is really bad. Super awesome abilities should be on a 30 minute time, short enough to be used yet long enough to prevent abuse.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Most of the *new* 2hr's are complete crap, either far to short a duration or to weak an effect to be useful. A few are good though highly situational.

Camate could the devs look to shorten the recasts of all "2 hours" into something like 30 minutes? The game has changed significantly since 2002 and the idea of any ability being on a 120 minute timer is really bad. Super awesome abilities should be on a 30 minute time, short enough to be used yet long enough to prevent abuse.

The 2-hours just need to be as crazy OP as SCH's to work. As it stands, only SCH's (original obviously) can be justified for 2-hours. It's the same as the merit system, they lack power to justify the limit.

Every last new 2-hour has no true justification for the 2-hour delay, a lot of these are not even powerful enough to justify longer than 10 minutes.

I've noticed the new guy has posted something on the JP forums about the 2-hours recast etc I can only hope it gets translated soon and is positive.

[Okipuit]

Hello!

I have some news from Producer Akihiko Matsui, which I believe you will all be quite happy about!

Hello this is Matsui.
Sorry to keep you waiting, but I have some follow up information in regards to SP abilities.

Today we once again looked into what would be the best way to implement the new SP abilities moving forward. I’d like to give a brief summary of the development plans based on the results of our discussion.

The below are the 4 main aspects of change for the 2-hour abilities.
　
1. New SP ability and existing SP ability recast timer separation

As we previously explained, the new SP abilities we designed based on the idea that the recast timer would be shared with the existing SP abilities and players would use them accordingly. While the effects and usages have been compared to the existing SP abilities and consideration has been given so that they are balanced, we will be completely separating the two and changing the concept so that each ability can be used separately.

We will be making them so they are complete abilities on their own and do not need to be constrained to using one or the other.

　
2. Recast time reduction

Originally the idea for SP abilities was to have players use them one time for specific content or battle situations and to use it wisely. When considering the current battle tempo and the average time for content these days, we feel that it would be beneficial to make the recast 1 hour with the ability to reduce it a minimum of 30 minutes via merit points. With this, the idea of “2-hour abilities” will changed when we explore the effects.

　
3. New SP ability effects revamp

Based on the changes stated above, we will be looking into the effects for the new SP abilities once again.

This does not mean only time related adjustments will be made. If deemed necessary we will be completely revamping the effect from the ground up.

　
4. Existing SP ability effects revamp

We will be looking into revamping existing SP ability effects based on the two points below.

• Adjustments to effects to coincide with recast shortening
• Balance adjustments to coincide with the new SP ability effects revamp

Even with the existing SP abilities there is a division between those that have good uses and those that do not depending on the job. Ultimately our aim is to make it so that by putting together the effects of the two SP abilities every job can have a boon. With that said, we will be revamping the existing SP abilities so that balance is not thrown off when incorporating usage of the new SP abilities.

As a general direction we will be raising all of the abilities so that they become useful. However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.

　
With all of these changes, the previously planned implementation date for the new SP abilities as shown on the roadmap will be significantly pushed back. I apologize deeply for making you all wait, but we took a lot of time to decide the above so that we could deliver something that everyone enjoys and matches the current game.

We are currently working on preparing a revised roadmap to be released. We expect this to take a little bit of time, but please hang in there.

[Insaniac]

However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.

You really don't have to do this. There are several events that rely very very heavily on Perfect Defense and Embrava that would also require a near complete rebuild if you mess with these abilities. Some NMs and events, I believe, were created with these specific abilities in mind. Arch Dynamis Lord for example would be a nightmare without perfect defense, Neo-Nyzul would be even more unreasonable without embrava, and some legion halls would be completely impossible without both.

If you absolutely must change these abilities then remove the necessity for them from the the game first. I think, though, that you could make people much more happy by bringing other 2hours up to their level.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You really don't have to do this. There are several events that rely very very heavily on Perfect Defense and Embrava that would also require a near complete rebuild if you mess with these abilities. Some NMs and events, I believe, were created with these specific abilities in mind. Arch Dynamis Lord for example would be a nightmare without perfect defense, Neo-Nyzul would be even more unreasonable without embrava, and some legion halls would be completely impossible without both.

If you absolutely must change these abilities then remove the necessity for them from the the game first. I think, though, that you could make people much more happy by bringing other 2hours up to their level.

If it drops to recast 30 minutes they do need to revamp these as they were and still are OP, they have that or to completely OP every other jobs 2-hour and that will do far more damage than good.

Don't start off as the new producer nerfing things, we are happy with 2-hour waits for their current effects.

No we're not. SCH and SMN may be, but no other job is. No offence, but please ignore these kind of posts devs.

[Raksha]

If it drops to recast 30 minutes they do need to revamp these as they were and still are OP, they have that or to completely OP every other jobs 2-hour and that will do far more damage than good.

There is no 2hr that would be OP on a 30min timer. They only event that would even be affected is Dynamis, since you could 2hr 3-4 times in an entire run.

It's already common practice to reset 2hrs anyway after an NNI or legion run, this would only save time and hassle.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

There is no 2hr that would be OP on a 30min timer. They only event that would even be affected is Dynamis, since you could 2hr 3-4 times in an entire run.

It's already common practice to reset 2hrs anyway after an NNI or legion run, this would only save time and hassle.

Disagree completely. Both Embrava and Perfect Defence is SEVERELY OP on 30 minutes, especially compared to EVERY other 2-hour in the game. Just because a way exists to abuse 2-hour reset doesn't change that.

[Zubis]

There are several events that rely very very heavily on Perfect Defense and Embrava that would also require a near complete rebuild if you mess with these abilities.

Isn't that the point of this change? Mix things up so you don't see shouts looking for SMN's and SCH's anymore.

[Sargent]

However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.

Either don't nerf these too badly (maybe lower potency a tad), or as was said, adjust the content that demands them. No one's in debate as to how broken both of these are, but reducing them to the point of useless would be detrimental to a lot of events.

[Theytak]

1. New SP ability and existing SP ability recast timer separation
As we previously explained, the new SP abilities we designed based on the idea that the recast timer would be shared with the existing SP abilities and players would use them accordingly. While the effects and usages have been compared to the existing SP abilities and consideration has been given so that they are balanced, we will be completely separating the two and changing the concept so that each ability can be used separately.

We will be making them so they are complete abilities on their own and do not need to be constrained to using one or the other.

Thank you. This is wonderful news. The one thing I'm curious about, though, is that the rest of your post leaves it somewhat unclear; while their timers will be separated, is it safe to assume the effects themselves won't be able to be used simultaneously? By this I mean, for example, a warrior activating both mighty strikes and the new ability and having both effects active at the same time. I would assume each would either overwrite, or preferably, block the use of the other until the duration of the first is complete, or perhaps you intend to allow this, which case, I have no real problem with it. Even if you're undecided on this, it would be nice to know which option you're leaning towards.

2. Recast time reduction
Originally the idea for SP abilities was to have players use them one time for specific content or battle situations and to use it wisely. When considering the current battle tempo and the average time for content these days, we feel that it would be beneficial to make the recast 1 hour with the ability to reduce it a minimum of 30 minutes via merit points. With this, the idea of “2-hour abilities” will changed when we explore the effects.

This is also wonderful news, but another matter of clarity, are you referring to the recast timer for both existing and new 2hours, or only the new ones? The clarity here also extends to the merits (ie: reducing both new and old to 1 hour, but only allowing the new abilities to be reduced to 30 minutes)

3. New SP ability effects revamp
Based on the changes stated above, we will be looking into the effects for the new SP abilities once again.

This does not mean only time related adjustments will be made. If deemed necessary we will be completely revamping the effect from the ground up.

Please, please, please, do not reduce the effects of any ability unless it is absolutely necessary. The majority of the existing 2hours would would not warrant a reduction in strength even with a 30 minute recast time, or still warrant a significant increase in strength. Many of the current 2hours have had their usefulness greatly reduced due to the level cap increase (ex: Familiar, Benediction), or were simply not strong enough (ex: Overdrive) or inherently flawed (ex: Eagle Eye Shot... Why in the world should a 1-time-use 2 Hour recast ability miss?) to begin with. At most, if you have to reduce any of the abilities, I think the only acceptable targets would be the ones with very long durations; Soul Voice, Astral Flow, Familiar, and Tabula Rasa, and the only acceptable change would be a small reduction in duration. No one would be happy about this change, but if done reasonably, I think most of us would prefer this over any real changes to the effects of the stronger 2hours. PLEASE do not go in with the mindset that "we'll need to weaken them if we reduce the timer" go in thinking "Let's reduce the timer without reducing the effects at all initially, and if it turns out that this is too strong, then we can look at reducing the effects."

4. Existing SP ability effects revamp
We will be looking into revamping existing SP ability effects based on the two points below.

- Adjustments to effects to coincide with recast shortening
- Balance adjustments to coincide with the new SP ability effects revamp

Even with the existing SP abilities there is a division between those that have good uses and those that do not depending on the job. Ultimately our aim is to make it so that by putting together the effects of the two SP abilities every job can have a boon. With that said, we will be revamping the existing SP abilities so that balance is not thrown off when incorporating usage of the new SP abilities.

As a general direction we will be raising all of the abilities so that they become useful. However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.

I'm hesitantly optimistic, based on the fact that this post exists for me to respond to at all. As for Perfect Defense and Embrava, please consider something important about those abilities; Perfect Defense is the only bloodpact that makes Astral Flow worthwhile right now, and Embrava is the only thing that gets sch's invited to anything in the first place. You can't weaken these two abilities without strengthening the rest of their respective abilities. If you weaken PD, the other astral flow abilities will need to see their potency greatly increased, and smn would probably need a bit more love. If you weaken embrava, not so much tabula rasa, but the sch job as a whole will need some serious gains to continue being invited by other players. In fact, in my own opinion, bettering the entire smn and sch jobs at the cost of reducing the potency of Perfect Defense and Embrava seems like the ideal result.

With all of these changes, the previously planned implementation date for the new SP abilities as shown on the roadmap will be significantly pushed back. I apologize deeply for making you all wait, but we took a lot of time to decide the above so that we could deliver something that everyone enjoys and matches the current game.

We are currently working on preparing a revised roadmap to be released. We expect this to take a little bit of time, but please hang in there.

Honestly, I'm happy that it's been delayed. I was seriously worried that the new 2hours would get rushed and added to the live server after being barely tweaked and never touched again.