New 2-hour Abilities

[Demon6324236]

Why do people care so much about warrior? It is already far and away the most powerful melee. Let's worry about jobs that really could use a boost via a 2 hour, not making war more broken.

Because we don't like the devs adding stupid things. I would rather them add nothing at all instead of something stupid, at least then they don't waste their time. If they are going to make an ability, they need to do it right and make it good, maybe then they might realize what good ideas are and aren't.

[Luvbunny]

They still do not get it AT ALL about why people play beastmaster. Please revise this god awful new 2 hours, we will never use it, it is totally utter worthless garbage. There is no way we are in a critical situation like this when there is dawn mulsum and pet food handy. EVER! If anything, this idea is a fantastic for job ability and a great improvement of run wild, you should add the stoneskin effect to run wild instead - we loose our pet, we gain stoneskin, enough protection to use another call beast ability.

[Raucent]

Not to mention this is another DRK 2hr that will more then likely have us using alternate weapons for multi hits again. Instead of using scythe or great sword for dmg it will become the new KC 2hr, with mobs being resistant/immune to Souleater, All this 2hr did was change the rules " ok the mob is immune to Souleater, guess i'll use the new 2hr and KC lock it down".... how about a 2hr that doesnt "require" us to use a different weapon type.

The 2hr does sound nice but due to the low duration it is impractical to use with great sword or scythe. IMO when ppl start doing lock down zergs with this new 2hr i can bet it will be nerfed to hell just like the SEBW zergs.

[Demon6324236]

I'm done arguing with you. I play DRK to, I see this as an ok ability, yes it could be better but I'm ok with how it is, all I have to say on the subject anymore.

[Cljader1]

if the duration is 30 seconds, is it not to much to ask for it to effect weaponskills also?

[Theytak]

Hey everyone,

We would like to respond to some of the comments made regarding the new 2-hour ability adjustments.

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

Again, like everyone else is saying, Tomahawk completely negates your reasoning, because it lasts longer (up to 1:30) and applies to the entire party/alliance, rather than the war alone.

DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

I'm very curious as to what constitutes "a lot of different uses" when you take the 9 flourishes into account...

Flourish I:
- Animated Flourish: Provoke
- Desperate Flourish: Gravity
- Violent Flourish: Stun
Flourish II:
- Reverse Flourish: TP restore
- Building Flourish: WS buff
- Wild Flourish: Very weak skill chain opener (Read: very weak skill chains, not very weak opener, though it's that as well)
Flourish III: Note: all three effects are mutually exclusive
- Climactic Flourish: 1-5 Consecutively Nonconsecutive forced critical hits (1 per attack round/ws, on consecutive attack rounds/ws, not consecutive attacks in a single round/ws)
- Striking Flourish: a single, forced double attack
- Ternary Flourish: a single, forced triple attack

So, you have 2 enfeebling abilities, 1 enmity ability, none of which are worth using in a 2 hour scenario, because you can only apply gravity once, once it sticks, and it's not a very potent gravity, and if something needs to be stunned, you'd be better off just stunning it regularly, or at worst, popping no foot rise, than popping your 2hour. If you want enmity, you'd get a significantly larger amount through trance. As it stands right now, and even more so before the current changes, there is not one single scenario in which any flourish from Flourish I would ever be worth using with this 2hour. Absolutely none. You could argue that being able to use 3 violent flourishes in quick succession is a powerful ability, but that argument is totally invalidated by the very existence of blue mage. Blue can use quick stuns ad infinitum, with enough refresh. Why would dnc waste ther 2hour to do something that a level 12 blue mage can do better?

So Flourish I is written out of use for this new 2hour. That leaves II and III, 5 of which focus purely on dealing damage, and 1 (reverse) heavily on it. Given the cost and recast time of Striking and Ternary flourishes, there's absolutely no point using them on regular attacks normally, and as neither consumes 5 FM, but this 2hour is now limited to 3 flourish uses total, both lose out in terms of worth. Which leaves climactic flourish as the only worthwhile flourish from III, for now.

Now, again due to the nature of not using all 5 FMs, and due to how functionally weak it is anyway, wild flourish is simply dropped. Building Flourish does not use all 5 FMs either, but it does give a moderate WS buff, though more so to critical hit ws than other ws. However, it would be a waste compared to the other options.

Thus, 7 of the 9 flourishes are not worth using during this 2 hour that focuses on flourishes. That leaves us only with climactic flourish and reverse flourish, as they're the only two flourishes able to fully take advantage of this 2hour's effect. Additionally, of the two, climactic is purely damage focused, and results in significantly less damage than reverse flourish on an individual level, and is hindered further by only being able to, realistically, make 1 practical use of it for the 2 hour itself.

That means reverse flourish is, undeniably, the only flourish worth using with this 2hour. There are no scenarios in which any of the other flourishes would be a better choice. Striking and Ternary could be argued to use for TP gain, but neither would net more TP than simply using Reverse flourish. The "lot of different uses" that the devs seem to think exist, well, do not exist. Not in the Final Fantasy XI we play, anyway. 3x reverse flourish constitutes the largest amount of damage output, and the support output it could, potentially, deliver, while larger than any other option, is still significantly smaller than anything trance could sneeze at, so the only reason to use this ability is for damage. Thus, no matter the situation, 3 extra ws would be the best and only real choice.

BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

The problem has absolutely nothing to do with offensive power. The problem is that SACRIFICING YOUR PET IS A MONUMENTAL REDUCTION IN DEFENSIVE POWER (when you translate our complaints, please, please, please emphasize that we're not talking about offense at all), that stoneskin simply cannot overcome. You want to give bst a defensive, crisis-recovery 2hour? Well, then you should have given them what you gave drg; a massive pet recovery ability, complete with stat buffs or, hey, maybe give the PET the stoneskin. Bst's pets are viewed, and used, as primarily defensive tools. Bsts rarely ever use their pets with the pet's offensive ability as their primary reason for their pet choice.

PLD:
Once we are able to talk concretely about the enmity adjustments we will be making a comment, so please wait a bit on this.

That's fine, just bring math when you do. Don't give us "a large amount" or "very quickly" give us the exact amounts and how quickly in exact seconds. There's no point talking about enmity without that.

And still nothing about DRK and the 30 seconds duration on this crappy 2hr? Can we just fix BW before we get any new 2hr? BW needs to be 60 seconds in duration and should reset the recast timers of all dark magic upon its use. Drks only have about 5 good spells its about time there is something to boost our magic side.

Stop bitching about something that isn't broken, my god. Drk got one of the few actually useful 2hours. Drk doesn't need another offense boosting zerg ability. It doesn't. Desperate blows, coupled with drk's use of very powerful weapons, and very powerful weaponskills (read: greatswords, lolscythe) and combined with bloodweapon makes for a very strong, very hard to kill damage spewing monster at high haste. It's also the only 2h job that can easily cap haste, and that can do so without a dnc for haste samba.

Consider this: This 2hour only needs a single person to use it at a time, because the monster only has 1 TP pool. Nearly every high end NM currently possesses potent regain and very, very dangerous TP abilities. In a zerg, the amount of TP the NM will be getting is going to be immense.

Now, consider greatswords and scythes at haste cap: The average floored delay (80% reduction) for greatswords is around 91, while scythes are around 103. That means great swords will swing at a rate of around 1 attack round every 1.55 seconds, while scythes will be around 1.75 seconds. This means over 40 seconds (since the relic+2 2hour buff applies, currently) greatsword will have 25 attack rounds, while scythe will have 22. That's only rounds. That doesn't account for double/triple/quadruple attack, or misses. I'm not going to pretend to have any idea how much DA/TA/QA is on a typical drk zerg set, and just use a rough average of 25% DA since that seems to be fairly close for most jobs that aren't war or thf.

That would give greatsword 31 attacks and scythe 27, both before accuracy. Thus, even with scythe, you're still draining at rate between once every 1-2 seconds. With how potent the TP drain has been shown to be, and how mob AI works, there would need to be a significant amount of melees and/or regain present to negate that TP drain, and thus, essentially, this ability would give drk one of the strongest NM controlling abilities in the game. Why the hell are you complaining about it? You're going to get invited to zergs whether you have it or not. You're a fucking drk.

[Cljader1]

That would give greatsword 31 attacks and scythe 27, both before accuracy. Thus, even with scythe, you're still draining at rate between once every 1-2 seconds. With how potent the TP drain has been shown to be, and how mob AI works, there would need to be a significant amount of melees and/or regain present to negate that TP drain, and thus, essentially, this ability would give drk one of the strongest NM controlling abilities in the game. Why the hell are you complaining about it? You're going to get invited to zergs whether you have it or not. You're a fucking drk.

Just because your a drk dont mean you can participate in a zerg. Through the whole abyssea series and the climb to 99, drk have been embarrassed. I have been told by ukon wars "drk melee no thanks, stun only," I even been moved from the zerg group to the backlines to stun with the blms. Drks want too zerg and not babysit a mob for tp control, the last thing i dont want to see is drk being outlawed from doing there ws's. Allow the 2hr to drain-tp on ws and no matter what you can not stop drks from zerging. This would make everyone happy

[Demon6324236]

Just because your a drk dont mean you can participate in a zerg. Through the whole abyssea series and the climb to 99, drk have been embarrassed. I have been told by ukon wars "drk melee no thanks, stun only," I even been moved from the zerg group to the backlines to stun with the blms. Drks want too zerg and not babysit a mob for tp control, the last thing i dont want to see is drk being outlawed from doing there ws's. Allow the 2hr to drain-tp on ws and no matter what you can not stop drks from zerging. This would make everyone happy

...what? You need to find some smarter people to play with I think, there is no possible reason ever that a DRK should be on the back lines stunning instead of on the front lines DDing, especially since Resolution came out.

[Theytak]

Just because your a drk dont mean you can participate in a zerg. Through the whole abyssea series and the climb to 99, drk have been embarrassed. I have been told by ukon wars "drk melee no thanks, stun only," I even been moved from the zerg group to the backlines to stun with the blms. Drks want too zerg and not babysit a mob for tp control, the last thing i dont want to see is drk being outlawed from doing there ws's. Allow the 2hr to drain-tp on ws and no matter what you can not stop drks from zerging. This would make everyone happy

Idiot wars who don't understand that they're only barely ahead of drk in terms of damage don't make drk any less desired for zerg damage. You need to find less stupid people to play with. At least you get fucking invites at all.

[Insaniac]

Just because your a drk dont mean you can participate in a zerg. Through the whole abyssea series and the climb to 99, drk have been embarrassed. I have been told by ukon wars "drk melee no thanks, stun only," I even been moved from the zerg group to the backlines to stun with the blms. Drks want too zerg and not babysit a mob for tp control, the last thing i dont want to see is drk being outlawed from doing there ws's. Allow the 2hr to drain-tp on ws and no matter what you can not stop drks from zerging. This would make everyone happy

If you don't see the zerg benefit to being able to WS every 2 swings I can understand why you get moved out of the DD party. This is a solid 2 hour that not only increases DRKs damage output but carries a decent utility. The duration will probably be increased via merits and it will be even better.