New 2-hour Abilities

[Zirael]

As I said before and Insaniak pointed out again, this is just not correct. What you've made is a 2-hour that's inferior to Tomahawk + Mighty Strikes, and Tomahawk's effect extends to the entire party and would be desired in the same situations. Are we supposed to use this when we're solo zerging Jailer of Temperance in the wrong mode?

Currently, with a 50% TP/WS split and crits doubling damage, both of which are estimations in favor of the new 2-hour for events like Legion, the monster would need 96% PDT for the new 2-hour to be superior to Mighty Strikes (Tomahawk used in both cases). Under more realistic conditions the new 2-hour is probably never superior. If you changed it so WSs are also affected, the monster would need 71% PDT for the new 2-hour to be superior to Mighty Strikes.

As it currently stands the new 2-hour is good only for cases of almost total physical immunity. If you changed it to include WSs the world would not fall apart, but we could use it in a few more cases.



I figured that would be your response. Functionally, though, the best thing you can do with this 2-hour is make a really long skillchain or (for anything involving a party) do three WSs back to back. You may have to waste one of your 2-hour Flourishes to re-apply Climactic Flourish depending on how many hits get through, but I think it can be done with good enough timing:

Party: Climactic Flourish (5 FM) -> Rudra's Storm -> No Foot Rise (4 FM) -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm -> 2-hour -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm -> Reverse -> Rudra's Storm

Again, though you hype the versatility of this 2-hour it's actually fairly limited. Here's why:

1) Reverse is clearly our best damage option, whether starting/continuing a skillchain or going solo. Wild has some potential if you're low on FMs (aka not while using this 2-hour) and solo, but with 5 FMs there's no reason to use anything but Reverse. Building isn't even in the picture unless you're fighting very very difficult monsters (where no one would bring a Dancer due to level correction killing 1H damage).

2) Even though you've reduced the timer, we still cannot use multiple Tier 3 Flourishes (not that we'd want to even if we could) because they are all exclusive with each other. If you use Ternary with Climactic up, Climactic is overwritten, etc.

3) Flourishes I is still not very useful. Why would I want to use 3 Desperate Flourishes in a row when Rudra's gives a more powerful form of Gravity? Why would I want to use three Animated Flourishes in a row when I could just hit the monster and get more enmity in the same amount of time? Why would I want to activate my 2-hour (which takes a second) so that I can use Violent Flourish three times in a row? Is there some monster I'm fighting that's resistant (but not immune) to my Stun effect that uses a long charge-time TP move or spell that I only need to stun once every 2 hours?


There is definitely still room for improvement, but I'll take a dagger version of Meikyo Shisui over the previous (totally useless) 2-hour. Still, please realize that what you've given us is just an inferior version of Meikyo Shisui, which lasts longer (if for some reason that was an issue), grants ~4 WSs instead of 3 with the augmented armor, and gives 300/225/150 TP WSs instead of ~100TP WSs. Also, they're using a GKT instead of a dagger and don't have to rely on another buff to make their WSs do decent damage.

You guys' dispute reminds me another, not long in the past, battle to unsuck Dancer. This day, anyone even remembers what Ternary Flourish is? When it was meant to be implemented and everyone was saing that it's useless/waste of development potential, Square Enix has replied with this:

As we have explained before, we hope you understand that Ternary Flourish was implemented with future growth in mind. We plan on strengthening this ability through equipment and merits, and we appreciate your patience as we do so.

We plan on adjusting all jobs, but our highest priorities right now are adjusting puppetmaster, corsair, scholar, dragoon, and warrior’s firepower. We will be working on these job adjustments in order of priority.

In response to a comment asking for Charis Casaque (+1 and +2) to apply to Ternary Flourish as well... if Charis Casaque (+1 and +2) also increased the effects of Ternary Flourish, they would be too powerful as gear items, so we do not plan on implementing those adjustments.

Also, Flourish-type abilities are not separated by rank or effectiveness, but are separated so that they are useful in different situations, so even if an item were to increase the effects of Ternary Flourish, the effects would not be exactly the same as "increasing the effects of Striking Flourish."

Please continue to offer up your feedback on how you want dancer to shine and we will use them as reference points when we think of support abilities for dancers.

Ternary Flourish is still useless, there was no merits/equipment ever added to make it worthwhile. Everyone just felt like their feedback got completely ignored.
Déjà vu.

[Shadax]

BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

I can honestly say in the 3 or so years I've been playing BST, I have never once encountered a situation such as this and if you do, then you are fighting something you shouldn't be and this will only delay the inevitable or you have no idea how BST works. Something tells me the devs are the latter.

[SpankWustler]

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

Unless the goal is to create an ability that deals less damage than Mighty Strikes + Tomahawk on anything with less than 90~% physical immunity, this ability should be tested more thoroughly.

Every single player is getting the same result in this case. Every player. Same result. Mighty Strikes. Tomahawk.

If a lot of monsters in the coming expansion are going to have 100% physical immunity for more than one minute at a time, I am too terrified to care about lackluster new abilities any more.

BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

If I'm in a situation awful enough that there's a chance of an emergency, I have already used Familiar for the +10% HP (and 10% Haste) it provides. I'm also carrying as many Dawn Muslums as my Mog Satchel will allow, if not losing horribly is really vital to me.

I would much prefer something to help me achieve my lofty goal of "don't suck" than to help me out when I do suck.

[FrankReynolds]

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

Correction: Making this 2hr apply to weapon skills would make it more powerful than mighty strikes when used against things that are incredibly strong / immune to physical damage (the only time you would ever use this).

There is so much "broken" in your logic that I don't know what to say other than: instead of thinking about why you are right and we are wrong, try our idea first and see if it works. We already know that yours does not.

DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

Just because you have figured out how to make a coffee warmer out of an Ipad doesn't mean that people want you to do it to theirs. The "different uses" that you refer to will never be used by any sane person. Trance sucks bad enough. Can we please have a really good one?

BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

This 2 hour ability is absolutely no good. I've read the JP forums and they say the same things. Stop acting like you don't understand the problem here. No one believes that a total moron can develop a video game. We know that you understand what we are trying to tell you. The pet needs to stay. I don't care if you add invincibility for 9 hours to the master. the pet has to stay. Did you hear that? The pet has to stay. Read that out loud. The pet has to stay. Is it sinking in yet? The pet has to stay.

[Insaniac]

These 2-hrs are a good chance for the Devs to start listening to player feedback again and they are kinda blowing it. When the entire community is in consensus that the BST 2hr needs to be scrapped and rebuilt as something completely different take the hint.

If that is a proper translation of the devs response to the WAR 2hr being underpowered they need open their windows calculator and read this:

WAR: The 2-hour still doesn't affect WS damage, so it still isn't worthwhile. Warriors have about a 50/50 WS/TP damage split. Assuming Crits double damage (which they will against any enemy that is worth 2-houring), then the monster would need to have more than 75% PDT for the new 2-hour to be worth using.

Not only that, but you've already given us the necessary tool to invalidate this 2-hour entirely, Tomahawk. If a monster has 100% PDT and you Tomahawk it, for a little while it has 70% PDT. If 75% PDT is the cut-off, then Tomahawk + Mighty Strikes (30% with AF2+2 feet and 5/5 merits) is better than using this 2-hour.

You need to make this 2-hour apply to weapon skills too.

then understand it and have their minds blown.

[saevel]

And no mention about RDM's 2hr ... which all the RDM's think is utter sh!t due to its stupidly low duration and really weak bonus.

SE it needs fixed, 3 min duration with 2x potency bonus and 2x duration bonus. Anything less is pretty much useless.

[Shibayama]

The problem with the dancer two hour is that it really has no utility outside of a damage spike, thus giving no incentive to bring a dancer to an event - nobody is going to bring a dancer over say, a samurai because it can "fill a variety of roles" - nobody plays the game like this, which is why middle-of-the road jobs with no real direction as of yet like RDM and DNC struggle to find roles in the current endgame content.

Please stop insulting your playerbase by writing off our complaints/frustrations about these abilites (the fact that you're still trying to justify the bst's 2 hour when literally every beastmaster has said that eating your pet in a pinch situation rather than enhancing your pet which is the primary tank is a bad idea? Just take the hint already and come up with something new) - don't tell us how these abilities are justified in existing because you had an intended scenario of use for them - trust your playerbase who have been playing this game for 10 years for heaven's sake.

[Cljader1]

And still nothing about DRK and the 30 seconds duration on this crappy 2hr? Can we just fix BW before we get any new 2hr? BW needs to be 60 seconds in duration and should reset the recast timers of all dark magic upon its use. Drks only have about 5 good spells its about time there is something to boost our magic side.

[Calysto]

DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

like everyone said since your post, still no other choice would beat the fake sam 2h as the only viable options are for damage dealing.
also, since the flourishes 3, the dev team seems to have forgotten that dnc was supposed to be somewhat of a support job, not just another DD.

[Siiri]

Why do people care so much about warrior? It is already far and away the most powerful melee. Let's worry about jobs that really could use a boost via a 2 hour, not making war more broken.