New 2-hour Abilities

[Mefuki]

Greetings!

The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.

To start off, I like to first share some changes that are being planned.

• Paladin
  We will be adding the same enmity increase effect as Invincible.
  The reflected damage can be increased via magic attack bonus and shield skill, but as we have seen cases where enemies were resisting it we have decided to increase the rate of accuracy and make adjustments so that it is more difficult to be resisted. We will also be correcting the bug where other effects such as reflected damage from spells would take precedence.
  
  
• Beastmaster
  We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.
  
  
• Samurai
  In exchange for making the effect duration low, we will be making it so that elemental abilities are also evaded.
  
  
• Puppetmaster
  The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
  (In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)
  

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

Did you guys get that post I posted on some alternative BLU 2-hours 1 page prior to this last dev rep post? If not, I implore you to please go back and examine that post.

If you're looking for specific changes to these 2-hours, you don't have to look any further then your own forum:

From the BST fourm, by Lastranger of Fenrir:

a 2 hour effect that grants some % of PTD/MDT or just DT and with higher evasion the normal for short period, meant for those times pet dies when timer to call isnt up.

As you can tell, this was a suggestion for a master buff. However, considering how imperative it is that a BST pet must live in order to play defensively, it may be desirable for this suggestion be applied to the pet not the master.

Some additional suggestions to pair up with Damage Taken -:

*Double the HP of you or your pet
*Grant Regen (15-35~/tic depending on pet. Separate from the Regen of Reward) for you or your pet
*Allow the absorption of damage from the attacks of opponnets. Absorption rate and what element/TP attacks are absorbed depend on monster correlation.



From the RDM forum, from Tyrantsyn of Quetzalcoat:

1: 2 hr duration: honestly 30 to 45 second of improved buff's just doesn't really cry epic 2 hour at all. Basically you rush to get out buffs as fast as possible before the duration end. Having it for such a short time just kind of seem's cheap and kill's the over all utility. Ideally this 2 hour would work better with a 5 to 10 minute duration. Where it could be reapply when necessary til the end of the fight or at least mid way threw the fight.

2: undispel~able: I'm referring the actually spell's and not the 2 hr ability it self. This has been suggested a few time's to add over all bonus to the 2 hour to make it more appealing.

3: Duration increase: I know originally this was just a mis translated but it was a very appealing idea bonus to the ability.

4: It would be idea if the ability double potency on anything it affected. This would bring a lot of demand for the ability in end game content.

To further narrow this down, it was discussed that:

1*A duration of 3:00 would be sufficient to buff your party. (another suggestion was to keep the duration as it is but as a trade off, allow all spells accessible by RDM to be AoE under the effects of the 2-hour.)

2*The undispellable buffs, a la Embrava, was agreed upon.

3*The duration bonus was agreed upon, so long as it could be balanced with other duration increasing gear/abilities that RDM already receives.

4*One alternative suggestion was to keep the 50%+ potency bonus that the 2-hour already has except in the case where spells only effect yourself. Self target spells would gain 100%+ potency bonus.



So there are some suggestions from the job specific forums on this very website. It only took a few minutes to find a post regarding the 2-hour and a discussion about what would or wouldn't work. FFXIAH, FFXI BG forums and even FFXI Alla are other sites that usually have many users posting their thoughts and suggestions about things like this.

I would suggest FFXIAH especially because a user by the name of Kalilla of Siren posts all of your posts there. So, at a glance, all of you reps can go straight there and get a lot of insight on what people are thinking.

Would it help if we compiled 2-hour and any future ability/spell suggestions in one topic perhaps? Because it's all there if you do some searching around the major FFXI forums.

In any case, you're strongly hinting that you were not aware of possible alternatives that the community has been giving. So, I guess we need to be more clear about that.


So, everyone, if you haven't seen a good or reasonable suggestion for you preferred job/s yet, get those creative brains storming and come up with some things. If that job's community can come to a general consensus, we can add positive, constructive feedback instead of negative, non-constructive "bad idea, don't have a way to fix it, just re-do it" feedback. Which appears to be something the devs need.

[Demon6324236]

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

Camate thank you for the update on the happenings with the 2-hour abilities. I was sad to see nothing was said about RDM's ability however.

What to change!

1. I ask for something very simple that should be balanced, please make the effect of the 2-hour last 3~5 minutes, SCH's Tabula Rasa & BRD's Soul Voice are both much like our ability however last much longer right now.

2. Please return the duration increase, and make it 50~100% extra duration for spells cast during this time.

3. Increase the potency for all spells a 50~100% boost across the board.

4. Make Enhancing Magic cast during the effect, unable to be dispelled.

Why it is balanced!

With this, we still have many of our most potent spells such as Gain-Spells and Temper as self cast only, but have more time to buff party members. Balance is easily maintained as even with a Haste that gives 30% Haste, SCH & BRD can beat it. SCH has Embrava, which comes up to 30% Haste if I'm not mistaken, and lasts a max of 12.5 Minutes, which is roughly what the RDM 2-hour would make a RDM's Haste last, however Embrava can also stack with Haste, where as RDM's 2-hour Haste will not be able to stack with yet another haste. BRD also can Soul Voice Marches for a total of 40% Haste, which is yet again better than the double potency of a RDM's Haste, while they also have an ability as SCH does that allows for a double duration effect.

Many of RDM's best spells are self target only, meaning no one outside of the RDM would be getting these effects. Due to RDM being the only one to possibly get them, I think it would be fair for RDM to get an incredible boost in power for a good amount of time from spells like Gain and Temper, as they would be a great amount of DD power to put RDM on the front lines, or to use Gain-INT/MND for amazing nukes/enfeebles due to the higher accuracy. Phalanx would give even more damage mitigation allowing RDM to take more of a hit, another reason why it could be very useful, especially with how hard things hit now days, and if it were put with Phalanx II, you would get around -80 damage on party members with this ability, and with how hard things hit now days, that could be useful, not to mention the super strong effects Protect & Shell would gain.

Last is the un-dispellable Enhancing Magic, the reason for this is because like Embrava, the effect is wasted if a mob removed these. For instance if fighting a dragon they can wipe all buffs with a single TP attack. This alone, make the 2-hour lack balance, as said, a SCH may cast Embrava, something that is not the entirety of the 2-hours abilities, and it can not be dispelled, yet this 2-hour is able to be completely removed, and has no other benefits. Dragons are not the only mobs with this power, many can do it, and it ruins this 2-hour quite a bit if ever this were used on a RDM.

RDM 2-hour Merits?!

We have been told we are going to be able to merit 2-hour abilities, but we have little to no information on anything about it. However some of my suggestions relies on parts of this happening. I figure the Merit 2-hours will be a 3rd category in each jobs merit lists. I also think they will probably work alot like other categories, with 4+ different choices, and upto 10 merits placed into each job. So if this is the case I would like to give you my list of merits for 2-hours I would like to see.

Chainspell - Duration: With each merit, provides a 10% boost to duration. This should stack with the Augmented Duelist's Tabard +2 effect, so normally 1 merit would be +6 seconds of duration, and with this body, 1 merit becomes 8 extra seconds.

Chainspell - Accuracy: With each merit increases magic accuracy by 10 during the effect of Chainspell. This would allow better magic accuracy during Chainspell, so that less nukes, or enfeebles, are resisted during this time.

New 2-hour - Duration: Adds 10% duration to Enhancing Magic cast during the effect of the 2-hour ability for each merit. Earlier in this post I had the duration at +50~100%, that was for this. If this merit is put in, then it would be starting at 50%, and growing to 100% through merits.

New 2-hour - Potency: Adds 10% potency to Enhancing Magic cast during the effect of the 2-hour ability for each merit. Earlier in this post I had the potency at +50~100%, that was for this. If this merit is put in then it would be starting at 50% and growing to 100% through merits.

If this is not the plans for merits!

If merits are not like this we will need a 75~100% boost in duration/potency of spells during this effect, as I showed earlier, it is not unbalanced, many other jobs have effects much like this that are very potent and can even stack with the effect of the original spells, meaning theirs will still be more powerful even.

Please keep in mind, you are asking players to wait 2 whole hours to use these powers again, and 2 of these abilities we already have on other jobs are highly powerful, so much so that they are thought to be the only abilities worth waiting that 2 hours. I think it is fair for RDM to get these buffs, as it would make it a more potent job, and extend its power a little more in a party or solo setting with its various Enhancing Magics.

Thank you for reading!

Thank you for reading my post, and ideas. I hope they are given to the devs, and they can truly be looked over, and possibly implemented for RDM. RDM is my favorite job, but time and time again it feels like since the level cap was raised the job has lost its use, and this new 2-hour has some hope to get it back, but we do need the ability to be better than it is. Please look into this, and do it, so that RDM can have a place again, and so the job doesn't truly die.

[SpankWustler]

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

Yeah, I guess "this is worse than waking up on the floor of a public restroom" isn't the most constructive feedback I've ever offered. Let's see what I can muster...

Beastmaster - Stoneskin may be far better than Reraise depending on the potency and duration, but this ability is never going to feel like a boon unless it gives the master offensive buffs rather than defensive buffs. The pet itself is commonly viewed as a unique and powerful defensive option for Beastmaster, so briefly giving up a pet for a defensive buff just feels like walking a mile to trade one orange for one orange.

On the other hand, in large group activities, there are times when pets contribute very little due to being unaffected by party buffs. Simple creatures just don't have the right sense of rhythm to benefit from Marches, I guess. I'd be more than happy to eat my pet for a unique offensive buff in those situations.

Blue Mage - I know this guy isn't on the test server yet, but it seems self-explanatory enough that I'm going to complain right now. Gaining unlimited use of Unbridled Learning spells isn't a flawed concept, but most of the spells currently under the Unbridled Learning Umbrella aren't spells anyone would want to use over and over.

The "best" spells are used more akin to enfeebling magic than purely offensive magic, such as casting Gates of Hades for the Intelligence-down or Bilgestorm for the various debuff effects. Casting these spells over and over isn't going to make the desired effect any better.

Also, the additional effect of Tourbillion is either broken or intentionally horrid in terms of accuracy. So, that's one spell down completely.

If the raw damage dealt by Unbridled Learning spells were increased, that would improve this new ability and Unbridled Learning as a whole. Alternatively, if one of the upcoming merits increase Unbridled Learning spell damage drastically while this new ability is active, that would work fine.

This one has potential to be a very good ability in some situations if things are changed a bit, but as it is right now, it is so bad that I doubt I would ever use it.

[deces]

Greetings!

The Development Team has returned from their summer break and has started preparing their responses in regards to all the feedback we have been receiving on the new 2-hour abilities.

To start off, I like to first share some changes that are being planned. [*]Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.
Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

You want feedback here you go..
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-After-Testing.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...hour-abilities

I do not think it is unreasonable to just merge this concept for the 2hour with wild run into one JA and make it something actually useful. and completely start over. With that said, Wild Run should of never been as bad as it is and this wtf JA will only dwarf it in failure. While the two combined could be useful in bad situations I don't see this warranting a 2hour restriction whatsoever.

Proposed 2 hour Primordial Instinct
If you really want to make it up to us Jugtmasters for your lies and nerfs, why not make a the new 2 hour boost whatever Job Traits the jug has to a higher level for a said amount of time? This would offer us the ability to maximize what each jug has to offer, every 2 hours. It is not game breaking for yully or falcorr to have THIII for when we are fighting a 24 hour spawn NM we need a drop from.
Job traits such as double Attack, fencer Tripple Attack evasion bonus Stout Servant would also get reflected boosts and whatever else jugs have that you keep hidden from us that we will never figure out.

PS: NO PET POOFING!

[Kristal]

• Puppetmaster
  The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
  (In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

What would PUPs like to see? A SINGLE ability that benefits ALL matons, something like Revitalizer. A one-shot ability that cures the maton to full, restores all MP, gives 300% TP and removes all negative status effects. Simple, elegant, and already in the game (when opening abyssea chests with Intense Soothing Light). It allows each automaton to do what it does best, without having angry villagers chase the horrible Frankenmaton with torches, pitchforks and rude gestures.
The current 2hr ability, Overdrive, does this as well. As weak as it is (it's barely on par with a 20min ability), it still gives each automaton an edge.

[cidbahamut]

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

It needs to be said: You'll stop seeing these comments when the content being announced stops warranting such responses. Some of these two-hour abilities really were just that poorly thought out.

When you introduce the ability to smack yourself in the face with a hammer and ask for feedback, you aren't going to get responses of "we can improve its efficiency at knocking out teeth by doing X."
No, you're going to get responses of "What is this rubbish? Scrap this entirely and give us something good instead."
I don't know why you'd expect anything else to happen.

[Teraniku]

It needs to be said: You'll stop seeing these comments when the content being announced stops warranting such responses. Some of these two-hour abilities really were just that poorly thought out.

When you introduce the ability to smack yourself in the face with a hammer and ask for feedback, you aren't going to get responses of "we can improve its efficiency at knocking out teeth by doing X."
No, you're going to get responses of "What is this rubbish? Scrap this entirely and give us something good instead."
I don't know why you'd expect anything else to happen.

I already did when I commented on the new PLD 2 hour, You can keep it as is, but have the mob(s) attack only the PLD for the duration of the ability. This would actually make it useful in a non solo situation.

[Theytak]

I realize I'm a few dayslate to the party, but;

[*]Beastmaster
We will be keeping the HP recovery and status ailment recovery as is, but we will be changing the reraise effect to a stoneskin effect. The strength of the stoneskin effect will vary depending on the pet. The idea is that Familiar will increase the pet’s offensive capabilities, while the new 2-hour ability will enhance the master’s defensive capability.

For a bst, who's pet is their primary line of defense, I don't really understand how "killing your pet" is a logical defensive ability, no matter how much damage that stoneskin absorbs.

[*]Puppetmaster
The same enmity properties for the player version of Invincible and Benediction will be added.
(In cases where the head’s respective 2-hour ability will not work due to the combination of head and frame, such as a sharpshot head with a frame other than a sharpshot frame or a stormwaker head with a valoredge frame, we will be making it so Mighty Strikes is used.)

That doesn't fix the issue with mighty strikes not being worthwhile, it just spreads it around. I don't have any issue with the enmity if you insist on keeping those two, but honestly, well, see my next response.

Finally, I have one request when submitting feedback. We have been seeing comments stating that “we don’t want this” and “totally remake it.” Your feedback is something we wish to utilize in our efforts to make the game better, so instead please try to be as specific as you can with how you’d like it aspects to change.

I can only speak for the jobs I regularly play, so I'm not going to suggest new ideas for every job, but the ones I play, I can. Also, please keep in mind that at this point in time, 2hours are really only worth using against NMs. Giving us an awesome 2hour that only works against regular mobs defeats the purpose of the ability, because by level 99, we no longer have any need for 2hours against regular EXP fodder.

WAR: Consider what war already has, and what this ability has to compete with. War is a heavy DD with very little in terms of innate defensive ability (defender is laughable). Mighty Strikes is a very powerful offensive buff. It's understandable that creating an equal offensive buff is not really easy. I admit, I can't really think of another ability to replace war's current new 2hour with; at least not one that another job doesn't already have (seriously, rehashing job abilities doesn't give us "new" abilities). The only effect that could compete with mighty strikes would be "Greatly increases the rate of double attacks" but given the weapons warrior uses, that could very easily be overpowered.

Perhaps, rather than a directly offensive, or directly defensive ability, you could give use something like a super-sized Break WS (ie: greataxe's shield/armor/weapon/full break); but rather than low damage and simple stat debuffs, it would basically be like enhanced Eagle Eye Shot for warrior. By this I mean, it would be one, big hit (about the same damage as a decent ws, like raging rush if using a gaxe), instant use JA (and no missing, please, a 2hour that can miss is functionally stupid) that would inflict a short duration, potent, by which I mean that it can land on anything, no matter how brokenly powerful the NM is otherwise, amnesia effect. Essentially, a real weapon breaking ability; hit the enemy so hard that it jars them and prevents them from using TP moves for 15~30 seconds. Of course, to be properly balanced, it could be set so that it only works once per fight, after which the enemy would resist the amnesia effect, so that it can't be used to lock monsters and take the challenge out of the fight. This would essentially force the war to choose between their own damage, or everyone's survival.

Of course, you could always give this ability to one of the less desired jobs, instead, to at least give them something to be more desired for.

MNK: The problem here lies mostly in how counters work. This ability, while nice on paper, only really defends from melee attacks. Lately, anything this would be worth using against only poses a threat through it's constant spam of TP attacks and Ga/Ja spells. The only NMs where this ability would really be worthwhile are those that use hundred fists, any other time, the monk using hundred fists themselves is going to be more useful. Honestly, I like this ability on paper, but I know that it won't be worth using in practice, because it won't have any relation to TP moves. Perhaps simply adjusting it, so that while the ability is active, each successful counter reduces the enemy's TP rather than increasing it, or giving it some way to at least partially negate enemy TP moves, such as reducing their damage by some amount and having counter proc when hit by a damaging TP move. Not really sure.

PUP (And a little love for bst): This is the big one for me. If you translate nothing else from my post, because I realize I have a tendency to write novels, translate this portion. Puppetmaster, though a pet job, is a job that favors the PLAYER, not the PET. BST is the reverse of pup, favoring the pet over the player. Giving BST an ability that favors the master, and pup a second ability that favors the pet, is completely backwards. BSTs want a new 2hour that does something for their pet. PUPs want a new 2hour that does something for the player.

Pup already has to deal with having an absolutely terrible 2hour (I could go in to great detail with just how many things are wrong with overdrive, but this is not the thread for it). It's cute that the devs want to give us this little copycat 2hour gimmick, but after testing them to find that, point for point, 4 of them were functionally weakened versions of the 2hour they were supposed to be.
Manafont gives us nothing because we never run out of mp anyway.
Chainspell is heavily hindered by the 4 second global recast, and also costs our puppet's ability to not cast the same failed spell over and over.
Eagle Eye Shot's damage formula was flat out reduced (changing it is understandable, to account for the difference in pet and player ranged attacks, but the amount it was reduced is just silly).
Mighty Strikes cannot be used by the only puppet with any real ability to melee, without noticeably hindering that puppet's ability to function and the damage it deals.
Invincible was entirely unnecessary for valoredge, because of all the puppet's, it's the only one that doesn't have significant problems staying alive against most things, and it's really not even that good of a tank.
Benediction, while nice, is also limited by how rare it is we actually have need to use soulsoother in a party situation.

Instead of 6 cloned 2hours given to a pet at reduced effect, pup's new 2hour should openly benefit the player. I've already lined out one idea, I think in this thread, though it may be elsewhere, that would essentially be similar to a spiritsurge effect; sacrificing the pet to buff the master based on the maneuvers they had active or the puppet they were using. Using that as a basis, I came up with this idea:

An ability that augments maneuver effects, and either allows the pup to temporarily use maneuvers without their pet (and consumes the puppet inthe process) or temporarily grants the puppet immunity to damage while also revoking their ability to be deployed (and thus, do anything at all, other than stand there). The augmented maneuvers would give the pup either an Aura effect, a Sphere effect, or both, depending on how that all works, but basically, each maneuver would buff the party members near by in some way, with the potency depending on the number of maneuvers active
- Fire Maneuvers: Regain and/or a Sizeable chunk of attack bonus that stacks with others
- Thunder Maneuvers: Crit Hit Rate and/or Damage, or Double/Triple attack rate
- Wind Maneuvers: Job Ability Haste (It would -have- to be JA haste. Gear haste and Magic haste would completely defeat the benefit, because they're already easily gained from multiple other sources)
- Earth Maneuvers: Physical Damage Taken -
- Water Maneuvers: Magical Damage Taken -
- Ice Maneuvers: Either MAB, Fast Cast, or some other magically inclined effect
- Light Maneuvers: Regen
- Dark Maneuvers: Refresh or outright MP cost reduction (NOT conserve MP)

Ideally, these effects would impact the master as well, but even if they didn't, they (primarily the fire/thunder/wind effects, earth/water/light to a lesser extent) allow pup to negate the rather significant amount it trails in terms of damage output relative to other heavy DD jobs in endgame events simply by the nature of increasing everyone's damage. The buffs would have to be strong enough to negate the loss in damage of using an effectively pet-less pup in place of a different melee job, but that's really not too difficult to do.

[Kristal]

Instead of 6 cloned 2hours given to a pet at reduced effect, pup's new 2hour should openly benefit the player. I've already lined out one idea, I think in this thread, though it may be elsewhere, that would essentially be similar to a spiritsurge effect; sacrificing the pet to buff the master based on the maneuvers they had active or the puppet they were using.

I wouldn't mind boosting the automaton with a 2hr, as long as it actually was worth using it. I'm not even using Overdrive, the effects are too short and too small to consider it for those ohshyte moments.

[Helel]

What the hell at sam lol? So they basically get a better version of invincible? One that increases their WS damage with every attack evaded, both magic and physical? Uh . . . ?

Also duration of RNG 2-hour needs to be increased, or it needs to enhance true shot or something. The only time I ever see myself using it is during a zerg, and as crappy as EES is, the new 2-hour will not outparse a 7k EES during a zerg.