New 2-hour Abilities

[Sapphire]

WTF is summer vacation?
<------- Jealous, wants summer vacation too.

Heh, you know that Summerfest event going on in game right now? It's basically timed to Japanese Obon time. This is a TERRIBLE time of year to travel there, everyone is going home to see family. (Note I too, would like a week off in August, oh and a Golden Week in the spring, I would be a-ok with that as well!)

[Demon6324236]

Happy Monday and I hope that everyone had an enjoyable weekend!

There is still so much feedback coming in about the new 2-hour abilities and we are doing our best to pass all of it on to the Development Team! However, the team will actually be on summer vacation this week, so we expect responses to feedback to be delayed a bit. We are hoping to be able to give some dev. responses next week regarding the 2-hour abilities.

Camate thank you for letting us know about the delay. Please do your best to make them aware of just how the player base feels about these abilities upon their return. I think it has been made clear in this thread that many are not happy with the abilities, and they are seen as very lack luster for the time, especially compared to other abilities added to 2-hours as of recent years.

[Byrth]

A few things:
WAR - Lasts 45 seconds and doesn't work on WS damage. This has to be changed if you ever want it to be competitive with Mighty Strikes. I'm not sure I can think of a single situation where this would be superior to using Mighty Strikes. If a difficult monster (like Paramount Botulus) takes 50% damage from physical attacks, this would double the melee damage of the player (but not affect WS damage). He's also a high level enemy, so critical hits are valuable against it and approximately double the damage of the player (and also affect WS damage). These are just made up, but considering the proportion of WAR's damage that comes from WSs, the monster would have to have something like 90% resistance to damage before the current 2-hour is worth using over Mighty Strikes.

RDM - As mentioned in the notes, Gain spells do not work with it. Barfire actually does, so I'm not sure what that note was about (perhaps Barstatus spells?) More importantly, though, this 2-hour does nothing to help RDM in the long term. I could recommend suggestions for it that would improve the 2-hour, but really the RDM job just needs to be fixed and then you need to design a suitable second 2-hour.

DNC - I was initially excited about this 2-hour, but then I realized how it actually works. This either needs a much longer duration (~5 minutes) or to reduce Flourish recasts while the 2-hour is up, similar to how Trance affects Waltzes. Giving all the Flourishes a 6 second recast would be nice, but 4 seconds would be much better even.

The way it is now, you're looking at 2 Reverse Flourishes and one Climactic Flourish during its duration that you don't need to get FMs for. Ideal usage would be something like:
Climactic -> Evisceration -> No Foot Rise -> Reverse -> Rudra's (darkness) -> 2-hour -> Reverse -> Rudra's (double darkness) -> TP back up to 100 TP -> Climactic -> Rudra's -> Reverse -> Rudra's (darkness) -> 2-hour wears off.

You're basically using your 2-hour for two extra WSs and a skillchain, which dramatically reduces the usefulness of this 2-hour when you're doing things in a party. Also, the value of this 2-hour is much less for people that don't have a Twashtar.

Kind of a side note because I've almost abandoned the category entirely, but Flourishes I isn't very useful with this. Violent (oops, missed) -> 2-hour -> Violent takes too long and the spell or monster WS has already gotten off and killed you. JA delay strikes again.

[Ophannus]

WAR's 2hr is alot like Spirit Surge in that it's a shorter duration version of another job's ability.

Warrior's New 2hr has the same effect as Formless Strikes, except it's a 2 hour recast/45second duration vs 5min recast/3 minute duration.
Similar to how
Spirit Surge's 25% Haste boost is a 2hr recast/60 second duration compared to Last Resort+Desperate Blows which is a 5min recast/3min duration.
DRG's new 2hr needs to reset Call Wyvern to 0 because even though the wyvern doesnt die directly anymore from large attacks, the DRG still does, which causes us to lose the pet when we die. Many times a DRG will run into a fight and die from some instant death move or crazy strong AoE attack or spell and then no wyvern for 20minutes. So despite the increase to wyvern durability and healing options with spirit link, none of that prevents the wyvern's master from dying easily. No other job in the entire game faces a penalty that harsh even after weakness wears off where they lose a huge aspect of their job for such a long time. Other jobs can die amidst a difficult battlefield like Legion and be raised up and within 5 minutes are back to full fighting potential. If a DRG had his wyvern called and dies in the middle of a legion fight and is raised, he's still severely hampered by the fact that he has to wait another 15-20minutes for his wyvern. Letting us restore Call Wyvern's recast by using the new 2hr with the wyvern out would help for these situations.

[Theytak]

WAR's 2hr is alot like Spirit Surge in that it's a shorter duration version of another job's ability.

Warrior's New 2hr has the same effect as Formless Strikes, except it's a 2 hour recast/45second duration vs 5min recast/3 minute duration.
Similar to how
Spirit Surge's 25% Haste boost is a 2hr recast/60 second duration compared to Last Resort+Desperate Blows which is a 5min recast/3min duration.

Formless Strikes has a 10 minute recast, just sayin. But also, It's not really accurate to compare spirit surge to desperate blows, given that spirit surge gives a sizable chunk of str, all of your wyvern's TP, an HP boost, and augments all your jumps while resetting their timers. LR+DB is just berserk with haste. There's too much difference between Spirit Surge and LR+DB to really call them clones of each other (but LR, merited, is an obvious clone of Berserk, until DB)

That said, it's not just war who got a "new 2hour ability" that's a near carbon-copy of another job ability. That's already been pointed out several times;
- pld got palisade/reprisal II
- nin got issekigan II with dash of NTE
- whm got an AoE Fealty
- thf got Trick Attack II
- drg got spirit link II
- drk got a reversioned blood weapon (big TP drain instead of big HP drain)
- smn basically got a sexy combination of tabula rasa and chain spell
- blu got a suckier retake on tabula rasa
- dnc got a suckier retake on trance
- pup got 4 weakened (EES uses a 4x multiplier instead of 5x, and can't crit; Manafont and Chainspell are hindered by the global recast that players don't have, as well as the automaton casting AI, and mighty strikes was given to a ghetto mage frame) versions other jobs old 2hours, and 2 equal (Invincible is 30 sec PDT-100%, Benediction is benediction),

DRG's new 2hr needs to reset Call Wyvern to 0 because even though the wyvern doesnt die directly anymore from large attacks, the DRG still does, which causes us to lose the pet when we die. Many times a DRG will run into a fight and die from some instant death move or crazy strong AoE attack or spell and then no wyvern for 20minutes. So despite the increase to wyvern durability and healing options with spirit link, none of that prevents the wyvern's master from dying easily. No other job in the entire game faces a penalty that harsh even after weakness wears off where they lose a huge aspect of their job for such a long time. Other jobs can die amidst a difficult battlefield like Legion and be raised up and within 5 minutes are back to full fighting potential. If a DRG had his wyvern called and dies in the middle of a legion fight and is raised, he's still severely hampered by the fact that he has to wait another 15-20minutes for his wyvern. Letting us restore Call Wyvern's recast by using the new 2hr with the wyvern out would help for these situations.

I'm sorry, but how much does the wyvern add to your over all damage? 10%? Considering that pup's automaton constitutes about 40% of its damage, and bst's pet constitutes even more, and they're both just as susceptible to that problem, I think you can be a little less melodramatic. Sure, automatons and jug pets can be called back faster than 20 minutes, but that costs the bst a good deal of money, and the pup a good deal of time (Deus revives the pet at ~35% HP, one AoE and it's dead again for another minute, and repair's HP restore comes mostly from it's REGEN effect, or liberal use of oil+3, the cost of which adds up fast). I'm not saying losing your wyvern to this isn't a big deal, but it's not really fair to say "No other job suffers from that" when your job is one of the top 5 DD jobs in the game, wyvern or no wyvern.

[Mefuki]

Ah, excellent, there's still time to recommend things to the devs then. Most BLU are unsatisfied with our new two hour. May I suggest any of these.

By Dinah of Phoenix:

BLU
Duration: 00:01:00
Description: Physical spells gain TP for the user. Magical spells drain HP depending on damage dealt. Breath attacks do quadruple damage and instantly cast.

An extra note by Prothescar was to make breath spells under it's effects ignore a certain percentage of enemy resistance.

Speaking of him, by Prothescar of Valefor:

*I modified your suggestion posted on FFXIAH to something that seemed a little more balanced. If you're reading this and want me to change it back just let me know. I don't want to misrepresent you.*

BLU
Duration: 00:00:30
Description: Blue Magic ignores level correction penalties, set recast times to 0, and costs half MP.

And lastly one suggested by myself:

How about a 2 hour version of Unbridled Learning for BLU? Say maybe 3-5 spells available, all from endgame bosses. They'd have to be good so, first ones I can think of are Mighty Guard from Shinryu, Diffractive Break from Provenance Watcher, Beleaguerment from Shah. Maybe Laser Shower or Target Analysis from Omega/Arch-Omega, Citadel Buster from Ultima/Arch-Ultima, or Grace of Hera from Alicorn.

Any of these, I think, most would be very pleased with. Please consider them.

[Karbuncle]

Ah, excellent, there's still time to recommend things to the devs then. Most BLU are unsatisfied with our new two hour. May I suggest any of these.

By Dinah of Phoenix:



An extra note by Prothescar was to make breath spells under it's effects ignore a certain percentage of enemy resistance.
Speaking of him, by Prothescar of Valefor:
And lastly one suggested by myself:
Any of these, I think, most would be very pleased with. Please consider them.

While I'm all for unreasonably overpowered effects, The duration being 1 minute is unimaginably unreasonable. Almost every single 2hour so far is 30sec, baring some few of the crazy requests... You're essentially asking for Half Chainspell, Half Manafont, Full Ignoring of Defense, and Level Correction removed?

I think THF's new 2hour should Ignore Defense, Have 100% Triple Attack proc, and all Hits are Sneak Attack tier Criticals that have no direction restrictions. This Effect Works on Weaponskills as well.

That is the level of insanity of that request. However, 2hour Ignoring Level Correction would be reasonable, and offer a strong boost to BLU Spells. Could shoot the duration to 30 seconds and throw in "Sets Recast timers to 0" and it seems less like asking for an All-In-one-Zerg Kit.

Messing around aside, Good contribution :3

[Mefuki]

While I'm all for unreasonably overpowered effects, The duration being 1 minute is unimaginably unreasonable. Almost every single 2hour so far is 30sec, baring some few of the crazy requests... You're essentially asking for Half Chainspell, Half Manafont, Full Ignoring of Defense, and Level Correction removed?

I think THF's new 2hour should Ignore Defense, Have 100% Triple Attack proc, and all Hits are Sneak Attack tier Criticals that have no direction restrictions. This Effect Works on Weaponskills as well.

That is the level of insanity of that request. However, 2hour Ignoring Level Correction would be reasonable, and offer a strong boost to BLU Spells. Could shoot the duration to 30 seconds and throw in "Sets Recast timers to 0" and it seems less like asking for an All-In-one-Zerg Kit.

Messing around aside, Good contribution :3

Yeah, I thought the 100% ignore defense + 1:00 minute might be too much . Prothescar is, among a couple others, more or less the authority on BLU in the BLU community. So, I figured I should post his idea here on the official forums so it would have a better chance to be seen.

I like the changes you suggested. Change duration to 30 seconds, forgo the 100% defense ignore and set recasts to 0. Obviously, I'd have to get permission from Prothescar to change my original post.

[Theytak]

Actually, it says Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)

I think you need to learn to read the dates shit gets posted, hun. When the post you quoted was posted, it very much did NOT say what you're pointing out. There's a post later on that makes clear that there was initially a typo. Read the whole thread before you reply snidely, please.

Idc what anyone says about the pup new two hour, having him be able to use benidiction rocks. I guess you just cant please some people.

I agree, pup get 5 new 2hrs, I think that pretty good.

Pup didn't get 5 new 2hours. Pup got shitty copies of 6 already existing 2hours. Pup got absolutely nothing new or original. Instead, we got:

Invincible, which we didn't need

Benediction, which they implemented broken, and didn't bother fixing before they left for the week

Gimped EES (damage modifier is reduced from 5x to 4x, it can't crit, and requires near impossible levels of fSTR to be good)
Gimped Mighty Strikes (Using harlequin head lowers valoredge's melee weapon damage, thus it's over all DoT, VE doesn't have any WS that area really able to take proper advantage of mighty strikes, harlequin just sucks, and it doesn't affect sharpshot's ranged attacks at all)

Gimped Chainspell (Doesn't affect the 4sec global recast on all spells, so it limits Stormwaker to 12 spells maximum, and also, due to lowering all the category recasts, sets back the clock, removing the AI fix that allowed Stormwaker to cycle spells between categories; during CS it casts Buffs -> enfeebles -> nukes, in that order, and even if you set it up to do 12 nukes, it doesn't have enough mp to back that up, and using mp restoration will cost you a nuke due to JA lag)

Pointless Manafont (Seriously. ADD. Activate -> Deploy -> Deactivate. Infinite MP. In what way is this useful? Even in situations where using ADD isn't easy, it doesn't cause spiritreaver to do anything different, it just gives it a few extra underpowered nukes before it starts spamming aspir.)

How, exactly, do you people continue to think these are good, new, or useful? The only real gain we got is benediction, which is basically just an ohshit button for solo, because there's no way you can swap from another puppet to soulsoother fast enough to use benediction in a situation where a whm would use it as an ohshit button, and solo's the only situation where it's normal to have soulsoother out, baring random lowman dicking around, which rarely ever gets to the point of needing benediction anyway.

The garbage they gave pup is nothing other than appeasing the fanbois who think "pup is an speshul butterfly job." You know, the same pups who used to try to join meripos in full AF/eva gear and subbing dnc, after grinding all their levels in campaign because no one would invite them (because their gear sucked ass). Those very same pups that perpetuated the stigma of "lolpup; pup sucks" for so long after SE fixed our shit and we stopped sucking. Then again, most of the shit SE gave as "new" 2hour abilities are just rehashed abilities they've already given the same job, or another job. I think the only completely original ability was brd's.

[Cljader1]

I think you need to learn to read the dates shit gets posted, hun. When the post you quoted was posted, it very much did NOT say what you're pointing out. There's a post later on that makes clear that there was initially a typo. Read the whole thread before you reply snidely, please.




Pup didn't get 5 new 2hours. Pup got shitty copies of 6 already existing 2hours. Pup got absolutely nothing new or original. Instead, we got:

Invincible, which we didn't need

Benediction, which they implemented broken, and didn't bother fixing before they left for the week

Gimped EES (damage modifier is reduced from 5x to 4x, it can't crit, and requires near impossible levels of fSTR to be good)
Gimped Mighty Strikes (Using harlequin head lowers valoredge's melee weapon damage, thus it's over all DoT, VE doesn't have any WS that area really able to take proper advantage of mighty strikes, harlequin just sucks, and it doesn't affect sharpshot's ranged attacks at all)

Gimped Chainspell (Doesn't affect the 4sec global recast on all spells, so it limits Stormwaker to 12 spells maximum, and also, due to lowering all the category recasts, sets back the clock, removing the AI fix that allowed Stormwaker to cycle spells between categories; during CS it casts Buffs -> enfeebles -> nukes, in that order, and even if you set it up to do 12 nukes, it doesn't have enough mp to back that up, and using mp restoration will cost you a nuke due to JA lag)

Pointless Manafont (Seriously. ADD. Activate -> Deploy -> Deactivate. Infinite MP. In what way is this useful? Even in situations where using ADD isn't easy, it doesn't cause spiritreaver to do anything different, it just gives it a few extra underpowered nukes before it starts spamming aspir.)

How, exactly, do you people continue to think these are good, new, or useful? The only real gain we got is benediction, which is basically just an ohshit button for solo, because there's no way you can swap from another puppet to soulsoother fast enough to use benediction in a situation where a whm would use it as an ohshit button, and solo's the only situation where it's normal to have soulsoother out, baring random lowman dicking around, which rarely ever gets to the point of needing benediction anyway.

The garbage they gave pup is nothing other than appeasing the fanbois who think "pup is an speshul butterfly job." You know, the same pups who used to try to join meripos in full AF/eva gear and subbing dnc, after grinding all their levels in campaign because no one would invite them (because their gear sucked ass). Those very same pups that perpetuated the stigma of "lolpup; pup sucks" for so long after SE fixed our shit and we stopped sucking. Then again, most of the shit SE gave as "new" 2hour abilities are just rehashed abilities they've already given the same job, or another job. I think the only completely original ability was brd's.

Invincible is pretty good, I played pup for years, I'm happy with the 6 new 2hrs. Plus the automaton is a pet you can't expect the 2hr to be exactly like the original jobs from which they came, that would be ridiculous.