New 2-hour Abilities

[Theytak]

And maybe that nerf was necessary. And maybe the SCH 2 hour will have applicable uses when in party play (not everything is a zerg fest).

All I'm saying is at least we give a try on the test servers before we start whining about them. The way I see it, these abilities will simply not be used, and nothing will be gained, but nothing will be lost either.

Honestly, so many of these are either conceptually terrible or blatant repeats of abilities jobs already have that we don't even need them to hit the test server to see how terrible they are.

However, knowing SE, it's going to play out like this:
- This thread gets posted
- Everyone is disappointed by how much the new 2 hours suck
- SE says that they have no intention of drastically altering any of these abilities, they will only adjust values and potencies
- Everyone reiterates how terrible these abilities are, despite SE refusing to listen to our feedback
- new 2hours go live on the test server
- Everyone gets on and confirms that most of these abilities are useless/terrible, and the ones that aren't end up being even weaker than they sounded on paper due to horribly short durations, or draw-backs SE conveniently forgot to mention
- Everyone continues to explain to SE why these new 2hours are terrible and why most of them need to be completely redesigned
- SE ignores feed back, as per always, and releases the new 2 hours as they are on the test server, only changing some values here or there to weaken some of the stronger ones for BALANCE.
- SE manages to yet again affirm that it doesn't care about NA player feed back at all.

WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists, unless fighting something that can hundred fists right back
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New, while crying
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New, unless it sucks, then it'll still be bloodweapon/souleater
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=Meikyo Shisui, unless fighting an Ironclad or some other TP-move melee attack monster, then either/or
NIN=New, unless they want a free warp later
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow (if PD is necessary), otherwise New
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=Neither, because they're both terrible and not worth using over having your 2hour on a different job
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

Fixed for accuracy

[Calamity]

WAR=Mighty Strikes
MNK=Hundred Fists
WHM=New
BLM=Manafont
RDM=Chainspell
THF=New?
PLD=Invincible
DRK=New
BST=Familiar
BRD=Soul Voice
RNG=New?
SAM=New
NIN=New
DRG=Spirit Surge
SMN=Astral Flow
BLU=Azure Lore
COR=Wild Card(2-hour reset is the only thing I ever see COR used for in any event where 2-hours are needed...)
PUP=New
DNC=New
SCH=TABULA RASA!

This is my list of the 2-hours that will be used thanks to this choice. The rest will likely sit in the JA list, never to be used except on very very rare occasion or by people doing it to screw around.

If I didn't have this terrible suspicion that SE would make it amount to like 5tp per hit AND be highly resistable on anything that counts, I'd probably agree. But I refuse outright to get my hopes up for this in any way.

[Theytak]

Greetings!

Thanks for all the feedback thus far on the new 2-hour abilities.
Along with the feedback from the test server, we will be sure to utilize it for further adjustments.

In regards to effect durations and values, they will most likely be adjusted before they are implemented to the live server so please try them out first on the test server and get a feel for them. We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

We are getting closer to the final stretch to implement these abilities on the test server, so hang in there just a bit longer.

Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)

• RDM:
  Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.
  
  Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.
  
  
• PUP:
  Incorrect: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)
  
  Correct: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)
  

Ok, the pup correction is an improvement. Now correct the rest of pup's 2 hour so it doesn't suck.

No, but way to take a long and thought out post and try to turn it into a joke with 4 words. Care to expand on your bolding a little based on opinions and observations, or you just trying to be a nasty little troll garnering a few likes from other trolls at your vile approach towards another human being? You feel taking the mentally handicapped as a laughing matter amusing? I hope you have an enormous sense of well being following your disgusting attitude. I rarely if ever get annoyed at something someone posts on an internet forum, but your post I found both insulting, and vile.

Well, if you want to blatantly ignore every single one of my posts in this very thread because they disagree with you on some part or another, that's fine, but I wasn't trying to troll. I was asking an honest question that I was unsure of, because all of the portions of your post that I bolded are rather... unintelligent. or uninformed. You're not going to be able to successfully guilt trip me, though, given who I am and what I am; I'm just gonna laugh at you, while you sit there on your moral high horse, because I find it comical.

The post was intended to be an insult, though, so mission accomplished, I guess.

Whoever says this new pup 2 hour doesn't rock obviosly hasn't put the time into their puppet enough to realize how much the old one sucks. Thanks camate for the update, but the drg one really does seem useless.

That's cute and all, but I'm fairly certain I've put a fair amount of time into my pup, and everyone else's pups, to be qualified to declare that our new 2hour is just as garbage as overdrive.

[Hashmalum]

Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)

• RDM:
  Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.
  
  Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.
  
  
• PUP:
  Incorrect: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will only apply to the master and automaton)
  
  Correct: Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)
  

Wow, the RDM got even worse, and still no mention of being able to apply self-only buffs to other people. This sounds awful. I can't envision a situation where this will be more useful than Chainspell, let alone Tabula Rasa. If this shares a timer with the existing 2 hour abilities, it will never get used. Camate, please tell them to try again.

[Economizer]

Many of the 2hours are great, but some aren't so great.

I think the optimum example at this point is Monk's which gives the player a choice between a very good offensive option and a very good defensive one.

That said, some jobs, no matter what you give them, you'd be hard pressed to give them something better then their two hour.

Summoner and Scholar come to mind, but with Summoner the 2hour option is actually really good - you get an offensive option that also finally makes Tarutaru's high MP useful, for once (well, at least until you go /RDM and use Convert on a non-Galka race...).

Scholar... well, I can't pretend to be upset since the job already has a great 2hour, but swapping enmity around doesn't exactly Scholarly. Obviously whatever is given is very likely to not have as much utility and power as Embrava if the game is to retain some semblance of balance from one of the most powerful classes, but I think Scholar could use something else more suited to it, or some more tactical element could be added to the proposed 2hour, such as also (in addition to the enmity swap) Scanning the enemy for strengths/weakness, current buffs/debuffs and stats, or also (in addition to the enmity swap, but instead of Scan) slightly buffing the player who got all the enmity with some sort of enmity based buff that wears off as the player loses the main aggro focus. Nothing major, just something more "tactical" to reflect Scholar, not because it needs more power, but because it would fit flavor better.

Anyways, while I also disagree with some assessments of certain 2hour abilities, I'll reflect on White Mage's and Red Mage's 2hour abilities.

WHM Grants party members protection from status ailments.

Much better than Benediction in this day and age. I bet it will still be worse than Perfect Defense, although the duration could make all the difference here.

While just about anything is better then Benediction (which is very situational at best for various reasons), I'd like to point out that this souped up Divine Caress is roughly (maybe exaggerating to make a point here, but still) useless unless it covers EVERY debuff. Perfect Defense exists (and to a lesser extent, the Chainstun combo), so it isn't like 2hour abilities aren't allowed to break monsters. Really, Benediction should remove Doom with perfect accuracy, but since that's been denied White Mages, they should be able to prevent it with this new 2hour, along with Zombie, Amnesia, Charm, Muddle, Max HP/MP down, Petrification, Gradual Petrification, Weakness, and maybe even Death (spell). If that's all really an issue, just make it not stack with Perfect Defense and you have a reasonable tradeoff.

I really think White Mage deserves a good 2hour that isn't just instantly doing a couple spells while stealing hate from the tank.

• RDM:
  Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.
  
  Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.

Any increase to temper and gain spell's would only effect RDM so that's kind of a win and a lost depending on how you look at it.

Yeah, so Red Mage's 2hour is going to be interesting. If it doesn't let you cast self-cast spells on others, those spells should get a much, much bigger boost then others.

If something like that happens, Red Mage could get Haste, Refresh II, Phalanx II at reasonable amounts for the party for what others essentially call a mini-Embrava, but also get highly souped up Barspells for itself and possibly the party... and then for itself get insanely buffed Temper, Phalanx, Gain-STAT, and Enspells.

Basically, if these spells are still self-cast for the 2hour, a well equipped Red Mage should get 100% Double Attack rate, 50~100+ damage Phalanx, at least doubled Gain-STAT (~50+), and Enspells that make Rainemard blush. I think if this was the case, this would be a great 2hour, since you'd be able to toss a few boosted buffs on your party, then become a demigod for a short amount of time. Melee Red Mages would finally have their time to shine, and without hampering the party to do so.

[SpankWustler]

While just about anything is better then Benediction (which is very situational at best for various reasons), I'd like to point out that this souped up Divine Caress is roughly (maybe exaggerating to make a point here, but still) useless unless it covers EVERY debuff. Perfect Defense exists (and to a lesser extent, the Chainstun combo), so it isn't like 2hour abilities aren't allowed to break monsters. Really, Benediction should remove Doom with perfect accuracy, but since that's been denied White Mages, they should be able to prevent it with this new 2hour, along with Zombie, Amnesia, Charm, Muddle, Max HP/MP down, Petrification, Gradual Petrification, Weakness, and maybe even Death (spell). If that's all really an issue, just make it not stack with Perfect Defense and you have a reasonable tradeoff.

I really think White Mage deserves a good 2hour that isn't just instantly doing a couple spells while stealing hate from the tank.

I agree with this very much.

I just made the assumption that the new White Mage ability will block all status ailments completely for the duration, because if not, it will be worse than Perfect Defense across the board. That outcome just didn't seem like a possibility at the time.

After taking in some of the more lackluster abilities and it thinking about it, that seems like a possibility now. I HAS A SAD.

[Alistaire]

We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

Translation: Quit your bitching till you try them.

Response: No. Most of these aren't even mildly good with the most over-optimistic fantasies about best-case-scenario effects and durations.

[Sunrider]

Greetings!

Thanks for all the feedback thus far on the new 2-hour abilities.
Along with the feedback from the test server, we will be sure to utilize it for further adjustments.

In regards to effect durations and values, they will most likely be adjusted before they are implemented to the live server so please try them out first on the test server and get a feel for them. We are looking forward to hearing your thoughts after testing them out.

We are getting closer to the final stretch to implement these abilities on the test server, so hang in there just a bit longer.

Additionally, we made a few corrections to two of these new abilities. (The original list posted yesterday has been corrected as well.)

• RDM:
  Incorrect: Grants an increase to the effect and effect duration of enhancing magic.
  
  Correct: Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.

Regarding the RDM two-hour, there are reports that the effect increase is less than 2x. This is unacceptably underwhelming. The new two-hour should not offer less than triple potency, and should apply to all Enhancing magic, from Protect to Gain spells. Anything less is worthless compared to Chainspell. The new two-hour, while in effect, should also be immune to dispelling effects.

Merits should adjust the duration of the Job Ability while in effect, the duration of which should start at a minimum of a minute, to account for the time spent actually casting the spells. The duration of the affected spells should be enhanced by Composure.

RDM has always been more of an enfeebler, if anything SCH is more of an enhancer. Give us this 2Hr so I can enjoy the delicious irony of having a 2Hr that would double the potency of Embrava, but never will since their recasts are linked. Well I assume they're linked at least, and their effects wear off if you use the other 2Hr to avoid exploiting COR to stack two 2Hrs.

Players need to stop regurgitating this falsehood. RDM was never an enfeebling specialist, nor has S-E ever advertised it as such; if there was ever a point that the dev team implied it was or should become a better enfeebler(over other jobs with the same potential), I'd welcome a source to that reference.

Until merits, RDM didn't even have tier 2 Paralyze/Slow/Blind effects, NIN got tiers one and two natively, as well as a tier 2 poison effect parallel to RDM. BRD has always had more unique enfeebles in it's songs, as well as a more powerful slow. BLM had native control of the elemental DoTs, where RDM didn't. DRK had Stun and Absorbs, PLD had Flash. Until merits, the only unique enfeeble in RDM's powers was Gravity. Not to mention that, prior to WoTG, WHM, BLM, and SMN had superior native INT and MND stats to improve potency of said spells, to include a slightly more exclusive equipment inclusion (and example here would be Seer's from the Promathia era). Even DRK has superior Dark magic skill for superior Bio damage.

More importantly, with the exception of three or four spells, most of these enfeebles were underwhelmingly inefficent against most boss-level monsters. It was the unique combination of Bio, Poison, Gravity and Bind that made RDM any sort of threat. In the time after Aht Urgan, even this was made irrelevant.

It's the players alone under the delusion that RDM is some kind of enfeebling specialist; everyone was desperate to easily label the class and simply latched on to it's A ranked Enfeebling skill, the usefulness of which is debatable.

[FrankReynolds]

Players need to stop regurgitating this falsehood. RDM was never an enfeebling specialist, nor has S-E ever advertised it as such; if there was ever a point that the dev team implied it was or should become a better enfeebler(over other jobs with the same potential), I'd welcome a source to that reference.

Until merits, RDM didn't even have tier 2 Paralyze/Slow/Blind effects, NIN got tiers one and two natively, as well as a tier 2 poison effect parallel to RDM. BRD has always had more unique enfeebles in it's songs, as well as a more powerful slow. BLM had native control of the elemental DoTs, where RDM didn't. DRK had Stun and Absorbs, PLD had Flash. Until merits, the only unique enfeeble in RDM's powers was Gravity. Not to mention that, prior to WoTG, WHM, BLM, and SMN had superior native INT and MND stats to improve potency of said spells, to include a slightly more exclusive equipment inclusion (and example here would be Seer's from the Promathia era). Even DRK has superior Dark magic skill for superior Bio damage.

More importantly, with the exception of three or four spells, most of these enfeebles were underwhelmingly inefficent against most boss-level monsters. It was the unique combination of Bio, Poison, Gravity and Bind that made RDM any sort of threat. In the time after Aht Urgan, even this was made irrelevant.

It's the players alone under the delusion that RDM is some kind of enfeebling specialist; everyone was desperate to easily label the class and simply latched on to it's A ranked Enfeebling skill, the usefulness of which is debatable.

Red mage was labeled an enfeebling class, because it was the best bet for landing enfeebles on a high level mob. All the other jobs you named had better things to do during a big fight than worry about landing enfeebling magic. Not to mention the fact that most of them weren't as good at landing them with the exception of one or two spells. I don't know what you thought red mage was, or what you thought it should be, or what the devs thought it was. But, it was there to enfeeble and cast haste / refresh %99 of the time and do whatever else you thought it was supposed to do the other %1. Devs can call it a flying pig if they want, but if it walks like a duck...



On Topic: The adjustments to dancers 2 hour seem pretty blah. I'm not even sure where that you would use this outside of just trying to make some cool numbers on your screen. Perhaps we could get some details as to how the devs plan on having this used, because it looks to me like it should just be a short recast offensive ability. Maybe to get just one more kill before getting timed out of dynamis? I dunno.

[Sunrider]

Red mage was labeled an enfeebling class, because it was the best bet for landing enfeebles on a high level mob. All the other jobs you named had better things to do during a big fight than worry about landing enfeebling magic. Not to mention the fact that most of them weren't as good at landing them with the exception of one or two spells. I don't know what you thought red mage was, or what you thought it should be, or what the devs thought it was. But, it was there to enfeeble and cast haste / refresh %99 of the time and do whatever else you thought it was supposed to do the other %1. Devs can call it a flying pig if they want, but if it walks like a duck...

What you're talking about is the roles players forced the class into, not what it is actually tailored to do. SMN could land Silence on Suzaku as reliably as a RDM, would you call it an enfeebling specialist then? RDM was the most popular choice for healer in after Aht Urgan, did that make it a more specialized healer than WHM?

The players might have popularly chosen the RDM to enfeeble, but that didn't make it specialized nor properly equipped for the task, much less in the face of superior enfeebling powers on other classes, such as the examples I previously mentioned. Nothing you said invalidates my statements.