Relic and Empyrean jobs that can use them.

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

We would like to provide further explanation as to why Relic Weapons will not be expanded to other jobs.
Relic weapons were created based on the current weapon types available in Vana'diel and not based on the available jobs. Since there are differences between which weapons certain jobs can equip, this is something that cannot be completely equal.

So SE said in a interview that Geo and Rune fencer will not be able to use Relics and Empyrean weapons.

Either way the issue as a whole.

Firstly DNC and SCH
These 2 jobs fit the lore of relic weapons massively so i really think at the least DNC should be able to use mandau and SCH should be able to use club or staff

Now PUP COR and BLU
All 3 Weapons wouldn't make any of the jobs overpowered but the gun would help COR alot when wildfire (it's prome source of DMG) isn't available either way i think BLU is a skilled enough swordsman to weild an Excalibur and COR gunman to weild Annihilator and PUP worth enough to wield the hand 2 hand.

Finally GEO and RUN
They definitely should have the option to wield empyrean the gsd emp and staff emp arn't ground breaking weapons so i see no reason why they shouldn't have emps

Then Relics well it depends w/ the above if BLU COR and PUP get access so should GEO and RUN
Honestly only having mythics as a final weapon is kinda sad

In summary my suggestion is this
There should a be a relic and empyrean for every job in the game

In addition to the aforementioned reason, in order to make it possible for these jobs to equip relic weapons, we would have to make changes to the current stats on relic weapons, and since this would affect other jobs as well it is not such a simple thing to do. This doesn't just pertain to only adjustments, the same can be said for if we were to add new weapons, as they would affect currently existing items.

After a thorough discussion, we have decided to keep Relic Weapons as they are in the case new weapons are added. These new weapons will be designed around their respective jobs.

Also, in regards to mythic weapons, these weapons are similar to artifact and relic gear as they are job specific, so we plan on releasing mythic weapons for any new jobs that are introduced moving forward.

[FrankReynolds]

With the exception of this:

Also, in regards to mythic weapons, these weapons are similar to artifact and relic gear as they are job specific, so we plan on releasing mythic weapons for any new jobs that are introduced moving forward.

... none of what you just said made any sense. Just to be clear. No sense at all.

You may as well have just said "we are not adding other jobs to existing relics because: popcorn rainbow jellyfish zooberzatelflop.".

[Muras]

With the exception of this:


... none of what you just said made any sense. Just to be clear. No sense at all.

You may as well have just said "we are not adding other jobs to existing relics because: popcorn rainbow jellyfish zooberzatelflop.".

Yeah, seriously, that explanation from Okipuit makes no sense at all. Hopefully people continue to complain until we get a real answer. In all honesty, I don't even think the answer given is the real reason why they don't add new jobs to the old weapons either. It just feels like the devs are being deceitful to me.

[Xerius]

Greetings,

We would like to provide further explanation as to why Relic Weapons will not be expanded to other jobs.
Relic weapons were created based on the current weapon types available in Vana'diel and not based on the available jobs. Since there are differences between which weapons certain jobs can equip, this is something that cannot be completely equal.



In addition to the aforementioned reason, in order to make it possible for these jobs to equip relic weapons, we would have to make changes to the current stats on relic weapons, and since this would affect other jobs as well it is not such a simple thing to do. This doesn't just pertain to only adjustments, the same can be said for if we were to add new weapons, as they would affect currently existing items.

After a thorough discussion, we have decided to keep Relic Weapons as they are in the case new weapons are added. These new weapons will be designed around their respective jobs.

Also, in regards to mythic weapons, these weapons are similar to artifact and relic gear as they are job specific, so we plan on releasing mythic weapons for any new jobs that are introduced moving forward.

Why don't you guys make a list of what changes would have to be made to empys and relics and let the players vote to see if they'd like them to stay the same or if we'd like the newer jobs to be able to equip them and take the nerfs? Is that really too much to ask for?

[Kojo]

In addition to the aforementioned reason, in order to make it possible for these jobs to equip relic weapons, we would have to make changes to the current stats on relic weapons, and since this would affect other jobs as well it is not such a simple thing to do. This doesn't just pertain to only adjustments, the same can be said for if we were to add new weapons, as they would affect currently existing items.

Why would they have to make changes? Help us understand, give us an example. I'm not trying to 'shoot the messenger', I know you're not a dev, so I'm not going to lash out at you or anything, but this honestly seems like a cop out. I don't see why anything would need to be changed, nor do I see how adding jobs to relics would effect balance in any way unless you added BLM to Apocalypse or something completely illogical like that. I'll probably be crucified for saying this, but I never completely understood why BRD gets Mandau, why PLD gets Ragnarok, but they do. Why? Why wasn't PLD put on Mjollnir or Claustrum? It'd make about the same amount of sense.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, if PLD got Claustrum, it'd actually have a use, situational to the point of being redundant to upgrade, but it would be a use.

[Economizer]

We would like to provide further explanation as to why Relic Weapons will not be expanded to other jobs.

As long as the letters WHM are the only letters on Mjollnir, I think I'll be okay.

That said, please be sure to examine the Empyrean weapons closely. I think they're new enough for a change in who can equip them!

[Kojo]

As long as the letters WHM are the only letters on Mjollnir, I think I'll be okay.

That said, please be sure to examine the Empyrean weapons closely. I think they're new enough for a change in who can equip them!

You didn't hear? SAM and WAR get Mjollnir after next update.

[Fredjan]

In addition to the aforementioned reason, in order to make it possible for these jobs to equip relic weapons, we would have to make changes to the current stats on relic weapons, and since this would affect other jobs as well it is not such a simple thing to do. This doesn't just pertain to only adjustments, the same can be said for if we were to add new weapons, as they would affect currently existing items.

And changes to current stats are a bad thing in a lot of cases (This would mean adjusted base damage and delay to compensate for multiple jobs); be careful what you wish for, people. I don't see why the new jobs shouldn't get empyreans/magian weapons (since empyrean weapons are "considered" (there are definitely exceptions to this) the most powerful magian weapons), but relics I can kinda understand.

This is, indeed, not new reasoning for SE.

I can name ONE weapon right off the bat that would have lowered stats: Spharai.

The damage and delay would both be lowered (this I could guarantee) to compensate for PUP. PUP is NOT known for having high delay weapons; Verethragna's damage/delay ratings are the way they are because PUP is on it. Hand-to-hand R/M/E is one of those cases where the empyrean has the weakest damage rating for one job but the highest for another because it has to compensate for another job.

This isn't disrespect towards the job, either - it's merely observation.

Case in point, just damage/delay on the level 99 weapons:
Spharai: DMG:+52, Delay:+86 MNK
Glanzfaust: DMG:+51 Delay:+96 MNK
Verethragna: DMG:+42 Delay:+51 MNK/PUP
Kenkonken: DMG:+41 Delay:+49 PUP

I can guarantee they wouldn't put PUP on Spharai and call it a day. SE is all about "balancing" - whether we players agree with it or not. And their point of view of "balancing" in the case of weapons and multiple job use can be seen well comparing those damage and delay ratings. That is the most likely scenario that Okipuit is referring to from the development team.

Eh, figured I'd put my two cents into this - I don't really play anymore, but I had to show an example of what they could most likely mean. That doesn't even consider other stats that could be adjusted.

[Sp1cyryan]

Greetings,

We would like to provide further explanation as to why Relic Weapons will not be expanded to other jobs.
Relic weapons were created based on the current weapon types available in Vana'diel and not based on the available jobs. Since there are differences between which weapons certain jobs can equip, this is something that cannot be completely equal.



In addition to the aforementioned reason, in order to make it possible for these jobs to equip relic weapons, we would have to make changes to the current stats on relic weapons, and since this would affect other jobs as well it is not such a simple thing to do. This doesn't just pertain to only adjustments, the same can be said for if we were to add new weapons, as they would affect currently existing items.

After a thorough discussion, we have decided to keep Relic Weapons as they are in the case new weapons are added. These new weapons will be designed around their respective jobs.

Also, in regards to mythic weapons, these weapons are similar to artifact and relic gear as they are job specific, so we plan on releasing mythic weapons for any new jobs that are introduced moving forward.

Without a doubt you guys are grasping at straws. We have heard a lot of excuses, but this is by far the worse.

Emperian weapons have stats geared purely to their WS modifiers. The only thing you could say is the base damage should be higher or lower, but this is really a moot point.

The relic staff is garbage so I will skip over even talking about that, but the relic GS on the other hand.

So we have PLD and DRK. Jobs that are completely different in their intended roles (that is all that matters for you guys right?) that get the same sort of weapon, but not Runic Fencer? Going by the logic of the Dev team Runic Fencer should not be on any existing weapon. However, I am strongly expect that they will be on existing weapons you can pick up at your local AH.

I can see not adding armor to abyssea for the two jobs as that throws off the number of papers each NM drops or the number of jobs a +2 item is used for. But, weapons that even multiple jobs can already use? You want to claim that is geared to the job when multiple jobs with various intended uses and power can use them? What is this, I don't even..

[Rezeak]

In addition to the aforementioned reason, in order to make it possible for these jobs to equip relic weapons, we would have to make changes to the current stats on relic weapons, and since this would affect other jobs as well it is not such a simple thing to do. This doesn't just pertain to only adjustments, the same can be said for if we were to add new weapons, as they would affect currently existing items.

After a thorough discussion, we have decided to keep Relic Weapons as they are in the case new weapons are added. These new weapons will be designed around their respective jobs.

I can understand that reason but saying relics would be overpowered when really they would be no more overpowered than they are already.

BLU Excalibur is weaker than almace anyway and won't turn BLU into a pld replace.
COR Annihilator would make the job stronger on phyical mobs but lack of a good bullet would keep it well behide RNG
PUP Empyrean is stronger than the relic anyway.
SCH on staff or club ... yea not overpowered
DNC on Mandau would be no more overpowered than a THF w/ mandau

As for Geo or Rnf

That's fair enough to say that but since Emp great sword is already weaker than some VW GSD w/e.

Honestly it's a really crappy excuse in my opinion.

The only reason i se for not adding these weapon on jobs is this.
Not adding jobs to relic so that everyone is on a level playing field when these jobs are/were added and since these jobs have exsisted without these weapons it would be unfair on the jobs that have built other weapons to lose there advantage or there effort made less vauble.

But ofc w/ the above every update old gear is made obsolete i waited like 3 years to get an algol and once i did the abyssea update said /usless.