Relic and Empyrean jobs that can use them.

[Daniel]

You know what I agree, I mean look at how powerful the relic staff is in the hands of a BLM! Now just imagine if you gave that to sch! They would be mele bad asses, no one would ever want a war again!

[Return1]

Its not really no Rag that's limiting it, it's no trial 216 weapon. The OaT Fulgurante is so incredibly powerful compared to all other non-Rag GS's that without it RUN will become a 3rd tier DD. Even a PUP will become more powerful then they are.

Oki ask the dev's about access to magian weapons, specifically the OaT / Fire STR ones.

Well no rag is the real limit, no one gives a shit if you can't access the second best weapon, unless you can't access the best.

Also, I would be willing to bet that even SE isn't retarded enough to release a job without magian weapons. Also, if RUN makes it onto any magian weapon trials, it'll most likely be on an Empyrean because SE wouldn't want to take the time to remove them from just the Empyreans instead of copy pasta all across.

The job is pretty DOA though in terms of DDing and tanking. It specializes in GS and has no access to the strongest GS, which can easily be obtained in a couple months of laid back farming or even in weeks with some zeal.

[tyrantsyn]

Okay so if those weapon are out of the question, could there be something new and equivalent made for those job's so that the player base could have another option?

[Elexia]

LOL I feel truly sorry for Okipuit, bad news after bad news have to be delivered. Well at least we know that the current team is just as stubborn and clueless as the one before them. With barely any visions other than just put another bandage solutions, or flatly refused any suggestions from their player base. I think it's rather clear the vision now, ignore the player base, hope they quit, and perhaps migrate to FF14.... Though most would probably just ignore SE, quit alltogether, stop buying their future product, and lost faith at the company.

You can keep saying this all you want but that won't make it any more truer. This isn't like when you were in elementary school where you can repeat yourself till your wish comes true.

Though most would probably just ignore SE, quit alltogether, stop buying their future product, and lost faith at the company.

'

You =/= Most players. Most players actually would rather play XIV than rejoin XI not because of the rough start a new player will have, but because the community has degraded into something fierce.

[Theytak]

Greetings,

We would like to provide further explanation as to why Relic Weapons will not be expanded to other jobs.
Relic weapons were created based on the current weapon types available in Vana'diel and not based on the available jobs. Since there are differences between which weapons certain jobs can equip, this is something that cannot be completely equal.



In addition to the aforementioned reason, in order to make it possible for these jobs to equip relic weapons, we would have to make changes to the current stats on relic weapons, and since this would affect other jobs as well it is not such a simple thing to do. This doesn't just pertain to only adjustments, the same can be said for if we were to add new weapons, as they would affect currently existing items.

After a thorough discussion, we have decided to keep Relic Weapons as they are in the case new weapons are added. These new weapons will be designed around their respective jobs.

Also, in regards to mythic weapons, these weapons are similar to artifact and relic gear as they are job specific, so we plan on releasing mythic weapons for any new jobs that are introduced moving forward.

This does nothing to answer, and infact, completely ignores, the other question posed even in the post you quoted; what about EMPYREAN weapons? Further, will you please just tell use whether or not the new jobs will be able to use magians at all? Right now, it sounds like you guys are trying to say that neither runefencer nor geomancer will have access to magian trial weapons, because magian trials were "balanced around the 20 existing jobs" because good lord, there's something game breaking and unbalanced around every weapon having the same stat bonuses available as every other weapon of similar hand-requirements, except for dmg and delay values.

The Molva Maul is the main reason White Mages feel so threatened, another would be Realmrazer, which is in fact better then Hexa Strike despite the nerf. Staff jobs like Scholar traditionally do their damage from magical sources. White Mages use clubs and hammers.

The bottom line is no other job is a Club job. Paladins, who might actually make any amount of sense with one are a Sword job. Scholars, the class where we only talk about this because of a pair of what are essentially mistakes that happened in Abyssea (the only Hammer style clubs SCH even gets is the Molva Maul, and the Trainee Hammer, further adding the the mistake category), is most definitely a Staff job - their Mythic is a Staff, their Nyzul WS is a Staff WS, their Empyrean is a Staff, they can't do Magian Club trials, they don't have Mystic Boon but instead have Spirit Taker, Shattersoul combos much, much better with their nukes... the list goes on. This isn't like Regen where SCH was good at it early on and SE made a mistake and didn't give them Regen IV for whatever reason, this is something that makes absolutely no sense for Scholar. I highly doubt if the typo that is the Molva Maul never existed we'd be having this discussion, since one weapon does not a master make.

At best, I might consider it fair for Geomancer if the job uses hammer style clubs, gets Hexa Strike, but I still wouldn't like it. White Mage got something special and unique, playing a WHM DD has a very unique feel to it, both gameplay-wise and lore wise.

On and to play devil's advocate, I don't see why so many Scholars are so entitled about having everything White Mage has. You utter the "Cure IV is good enough for 99% of situations" and they put fingers in their ears and start screaming "CURE VI CURE VI CURE VI" at the top of their lungs.

Whm's got a lot of unique shit, like cure skin, respectable light damage nukes (due to solace), an untouchable throne as the best healer in the game, stupid amounts of mp efficiency, lots of unique party buffs (auspice, pro/shell -ra lines, boost- line, which is unique from rdm because rdm is self-only), as well as all one of rdm's new, unique debuffs (addle). Whm is the strongest healer, the strongest magical buffer outside of embrava, and the strongest mage physically (ie: ability to melee). WHM is sitting on Mary Sue levels of "unique and special" and it really wouldn't suffer at all if it lost some of that. Sorry, econ, I like you, and I think you're a very intelligent guy, but whm is just a little OP right now. They have no place to be bitching about losing one of their many unique/special toys.

I'm afraid that atm their concern is that a class like COR, which was originally meant to be a buffer able to do some damage, can already deal too much damage.
Indeed there are situations where this is true.
Armageddon is awesome, but Annihilator would be a pretty good weapon as well for COR, despite the lack of gear RNG has.
Comparing the two common options that are easily obtainable without too much effort, that is 95 Anni (71 base damage) vs 90 Armageddon (64 base damage).
If I recall base damage has an impact on Quick Draw?
Also, Coronach's aftermath is pretty cool.
Not saying Annihilator would ve overpowered or that it would break the game/the job, but I can understand them for having some concerns about it.


premise: LOLPUP
Aside from that you're forgetting that PUP has naturally access to a very powerful WS which is not bound to a weapon, that's Stringing Pummel. An awesome 6hit CRIT ws. Amount of crit rate given per TP is lower than Victory Smite, but nonetheless that's still a very powerful WS.
In my opinion Spharai would be a very powerful weapon for PUP compared to Verethragna. Aside from the difference in gear options, it would probably be more powerful than it is on MNK since they can't use a WS like Victory Smite (i.e. Stringing Pummel) on Spharai but have to resort to Shijin Spiral, which is available to PUP as well and PUP has a lot of nice +DEX gear option.
Anyway, lolpup etc, but Spharai would really be a nice weapon for PUP.

They didn't have any problem putting brd on mandau, I don't see why putting cor on annihilator's any different. That's said from the perspective of someone who knows and regularly plays with a very well geared melee brd who does some of the craziest shit.

Also, as for pup, I do want to point out that for pup, shijin spiral and stringing pummel average roughly the same damage (ignoring kenkonken) with SS winning against higher defense shit, and SP winning against lower defense shit. Stringing Pummel is about the same level of power as Victory Smite, as well (ie: regular stringing pummel vs WoE weapon VS, or KKK stringing pummel vs Vere VS), due primarily to our terrible selection of str gear. The primary reason KKK is stronger than Vere for pup is that it has -50 delay on it. Even if we had access to spharai, we'd still never out damage a mnk in zerg situations; kick attacks alone are a huge gap that our puppet can't currently bridge. I really don't care about whether pup gets spharai, I'd still take KKK over them every day of the week, and twice on sunday, but pup having spharai won't suddenly make it stronger than mnk, so SE doesn't have any grounds to worry about that.

Besides, Evasion procs before counter, so pup can't even make the same level of use out of spharai's counter effect, because of how much more evasion we have, relative to a mnk.

No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? Or half is 10 for 20 dmg?

An winrar is you!

[Demon6324236]

You =/= Most players. Most players actually would rather play XIV than rejoin XI not because of the rough start a new player will have, but because the community has degraded into something fierce.

Well... I don't know, see, Bioware is like how Square is in a way. They were both Single Player game makers, and then they took their steps into MMO world, this game is going alot better than The Old Republic did, however its kinda the same idea. Bioware showed that after all that time, delaying, and everything else, their MMO kinda flopped. Now SE is doing better with FFXI but really, the question is what are they doing with it? If they ignore player feedback, or everyone outside of Japan at least, then what does that say about them with MMOs? If you are running a multiplayer game, feedback is very important, more so than any other kind of game. Now, if SE doesn't listen to players, and it ends up killing this game, I think it will show to others, that SE may not be the best company to put your money into with your Subscription. Another MMO may take players more seriously and really try to do things about flaws players find.

[saevel]

Well no rag is the real limit, no one gives a shit if you can't access the second best weapon, unless you can't access the best.

Also, I would be willing to bet that even SE isn't retarded enough to release a job without magian weapons. Also, if RUN makes it onto any magian weapon trials, it'll most likely be on an Empyrean because SE wouldn't want to take the time to remove them from just the Empyreans instead of copy pasta all across.

The job is pretty DOA though in terms of DDing and tanking. It specializes in GS and has no access to the strongest GS, which can easily be obtained in a couple months of laid back farming or even in weeks with some zeal.

Ohh how little you know...

That OaT competes with Rag damn near. It does that due to it's delay being significantly easier to work with then Rag's 431 delay and that it will on average shave a full hit off your time till 100.

Seriously 431 delay sucks to work with as /WAR.

[Return1]

Ohh how little you know...

That OaT competes with Rag damn near. It does that due to it's delay being significantly easier to work with then Rag's 431 delay and that it will on average shave a full hit off your time till 100.

Seriously 431 delay sucks to work with as /WAR.

You should have retardedly fast TP gain with either weapon unless you suck. It's fine to say it keeps up with napkin math, but in human performance it's not as good as napkin math states. The relatively garbage DoT (before even considering Rag's 2.5 damage mod), more WS saturation, lack of ACC, and lack of perfect timing puts Fulgurante soundly behind Ragnarok.

This is all besides the point though. No one should give a shit about Fulgorante with Ragnarok EASILY available. That's why not having access to Ragnarok is the biggest nail in the Coffin for RUN DD, Ragnarok DRKs or WARs are dime a dozen, and better than any "non-mythic" GS using DD. Talking about a lack of Fulgurante is just beating the dead horse that is RUN DD at that point.

[Zirael]

[...]
In addition to the aforementioned reason, in order to make it possible for these jobs to equip relic weapons, we would have to make changes to the current stats on relic weapons, and since this would affect other jobs as well it is not such a simple thing to do. This doesn't just pertain to only adjustments, the same can be said for if we were to add new weapons, as they would affect currently existing items.

[...]

You don't have to change relic weapon itself in any way. If, for example, you think by adding DNC to Mandau would make DNC to do more damage than 'old' Mandau jobs, just add a piece of armor (ammo, ring, whatever) that adds like +10% Mercy Stroke, or latent effect "Mandau equipped: +3% damage", usable only by 'old' Mandau jobs.
Or if that's too radical, next time you make new better armors (this will definitely happen with Seekers of Adoulin), just rebalance new relic jobs at that time. I't's not really that hard to add new jobs to Relic Weapons. You will be doing major rebalancing/rehauls of most jobs for Seekers of Adoulin anyways - might as well kill two birds with one stone.
Many players over the years have asked for this. Instead of saying "We can't be bothered to go through all the hassle" just make it happen. It's the "right" thing to do.

But honestly, as I see it, DNC getting Mandau, COR Annihilator this very moment, etc will not upset current balance that much. What kind of armageddon are you trying to prevent by denying your players this change?

[Gricus]

While we understand that you (SE) grasp the game from a programming standpoint and understand the game as a whole...... on paper. What a vast majority of the player base questions is, do any of you actually play the game?
To further clarify that, do any of you actually play the game as freethinking individuals seeking character growth? We want to know if anyone that has any part in the design process there actually plays the game as a game player would in it's current state.
You claim to understand the game when clearly you only understand the concept of the game and not the game itself.