BST nerf please

[Demon6324236]

Whatever your just going to keep saying that somehow a pet being super powerful and strong without any need for the master to do anything is fair, and its honestly very wrong to every other job. All jobs have at least skill ups to get stronger, puppetmaster has skills for its automaton, dragoon "levels up" its Wyvern, and SMN skills up summoning magic. BST simply pops a pet, at most it has to wear AF2 hands because they help its level, thats the most they possibly have to do for it to be stronger.

Your telling me this sounds balanced? You need to reevaluate what your sense of balance in a game is, because this is far from it. I don't want all jobs to be the same, or do the same things, I want them to take effort. No job should be able to go 1~99 without effort then do whatever they want shortly after without much (if any) work. Appealing to more players? That sounds nice, but the others who don't need that kind of hand out abuse it just as much and it makes things far to easy.

[Luvbunny]

From the sound of your posting, jealousy is rather evident lol. Saying that one can level 1-99 without doing nary anything is total BS, most people do at least something. The fact that the jug pets are quite powerful, well that is the strength of the job, by taking away Beastmaster charm ability in all the new contents, SE is giving them a jug pets replacement that is quite good and well worth the effort for crafters to supply the demand. Otherwise all the beast master will come with craptastic jug pets, and they will ask for the master to be powered up to the level of Dragoon or Warrior when it comes to melee skills, sorry not gonna work, if you want that go play Dragoon or Warrior. Each jobs has its strength and weaknesses, good players know how to take advantage of this. Many other jobs such as Puppetmaster and Blue Mage are over powered as well on certain events, lets not name them in case you get jealous over those jobs as well. Even Summoner can do what the Beastmaster cannot, with pretty much unlimited avatar to resummon less than 1 minute, not a 5 minute timers, and can tank when it comes to NMs with matching elements. Between dawn mulsum and BP ward they can also perform similar duties. Basically you can exploit game mechanic, people do this all the time. Each jobs has their own strength, beast master just happen to be THE jug pets, which is quite strong. Don't blame the way the jobs is designed because a bunch of people took advantage of it and run around with gimped gears. Blame the players for realizing how to utilize the strength of the job and run away with it.

[Demon6324236]

SMN=Level skills, acquiring gear, summon pet, keep MP up, watch it kill.
BST=Use a pet, watch it kill.

How you make it sound is that its a cheat-code in the back of the Manuel for a game. Its there if you want to use it, sure it makes the game easy but you don't have to use it if you don't want to. The problem with these kind of things are that when the majority of players see this cheat-code they feel like using it, especially if it betters them when without it. Like playing a game with infinite HP to get past the hard parts, then going back to normal. Or in this case, players use it for BlackBelt, Dyna, Emps, and then go back to the jobs that would use it. Other people like me, look at the cheatcode and ignore it, we want to earn our stuff and have a challenge. My Excalibur for example, sure I could go out and do BST, make more AC, have it all easy and fly through it, instead I do it the right way, I do it on my RDM. Its challenging, its fun, its geared well and that shows while I play it and make it though my fights.

[Luvbunny]

OK you choose the hard mode, which is YOUR choice, so be happy for it. Other people choose the easy mode, which is THEIR choice, so get used to it. Hey if you want to feel like you earn it, by all means, do it. This game is nothing but grind grind grind grind grind and more grind. Smart people take advantage of short cut and avoid the grind trap. Why bother taking the long hard road when an easy way out is presenting itself. I got 2/3 of my black belt items this way, with beast master and summoner, but go with normal set up on turtle and still yet getting that items. Being able to low man the bcnm is PRICELESS!!!

[Alikhat]

The problem with attaching some kind of skill level requirements to the job is that it would only be a temporary set back. It may deter a few less-than-bothered players from taking up the job but it's not that difficult to get it up if you really wanted to. And considering that BST is as powerful as it is, the rewards for players that take it up would probably see them through it. The only reason I'd like to see such a requirement is to even out the playing field with the other jobs that have to push through that set back.

Other people like me, look at the cheatcode and ignore it, we want to earn our stuff and have a challenge. My Excalibur for example, sure I could go out and do BST, make more AC, have it all easy and fly through it, instead I do it the right way, I do it on my RDM. Its challenging, its fun, its geared well and that shows while I play it and make it though my fights.

This is why I play the game. I mostly do things with my partner and a mutual friend, and occasionally do things with PUGs/linkshells, though I do often like to solo too. I couldn't care less that someone decided to level BST to farm their empy or relic weapon because it was the easy option (sometimes, even I like to take the easy option from time to time). If that makes them feel like a decent player then more power to them. It doesn't affect me in the slightest. My own personal experiences are what makes me the type of player I am and that's where I get my enjoyment in this game. And to be quite honest, these players only copy and do what others before them have long since achieved. They'd fall over backwards if they tried anything original or remotely difficult (as far as that word can be applied to the game, before someone goes on the "this game isn't hard" rant).

The only thing that annoys me is the arrogance of these players who feel like they are above everyone else and can't seem to grasp the concept of common decency. But that's a player base issue, not an issue caused by the job itself. I've even stopped feeling threatened by a BST in the dyna camp I am in, simpy because I make use of less favourable camps or move to decent challenge mobs. It made me laugh a little when I realised that most of the BSTs in the zone don't actually use them because they're probably unsuccessful there.

I do agree that some of the jug pets I've seen are a little overpowered with regards to individual hits (seeing Falcorr hit for 250-300 a swing and having triple attack, is a little silly sometimes) but I can chew through EP/DC in dyna faster than most of the BSTs realise what day it is and when you weigh things up they do have a cost and it's only really decent BSTs that are capable of doing more than what you commonly see (bar Abyssea related content but that's incomparable in my opinion). Of course, I do dynamis on THF mostly, or BLU which really is strong against trash mobs (and with some decent MP management/choosing mobs appropriately can go all night without struggle). I could see an issue if you were comparing RDM DD with a jug pet.

Considering that BST is pretty useless in anything that matters, it's hard not to sympathise with the job itself, it should be left to be at least good at what it can do (even if 5k HP for a pet is a bit silly). If anything, I'd prefer to see a bit more balancing between the jugs themselves. I find it sad that there's such a repertoire of available pets to choose from but only a select few ever get used, especially once you hit 99. It really shows how bad SE is at making, and keeping, things relevant.

Do feel free to /slap arrogant individuals who don't understand playing nicely, though. Because that really is the biggest problem with players of the job.

[Randwolf]

If we're bringing out the nerf stick, Ochain Paladins in Dynamis need one, also. I've seen them aggro multiple, a lot, of mobs. Then stand there and get beat on while stocking up MP. AOE weapon skilling the mobs over and over, while another player continues to gather more mobs and bring them back to the PLD and positions them so that the PLD's AOE hits the newly pulled mobs. Takes almost no skill whatsoever and the duo gets way too many drops for the amount of effort put in.

I'll add more nerfs we need later. Because, it makes me mad when someone else's job is 'overpowered.'

[Demon6324236]

Except Ochain is the hardest Emp in the game to make next to the Harp, the PLD has to be geared fairly well I would think, and probably isn't procing many if any mobs. If they arnt procing them then honestly you would need to throw in WAR as well with Fell Cleave as I'm sure a PDT WAR & a PDT RDM could do that without any problem at all, simply FC the same as you would in Abyssea with more PDT to make up for not having atma.

Come to think of it a smart FC group could probably FC Dyna... RDM spam diaga for procs in magic time, WAR spam FC for WS time, have WAR and RDM /DNC for when JA time comes. All would be somewhat fast depending on luck of procs and you could move between 2~3 types of mobs due to the small distance between mobs in Dynamis.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So much crying over a solo job NOBODY wants in a party being able to solo. Who needs devs to cry balance when the playerbase does it so often even to the jobs NOBODY wants....... a sad, sad, way this game is in.

Except Ochain is the hardest Emp in the game to make next to the Harp, the PLD has to be geared fairly well I would think, and probably isn't procing many if any mobs. If they arnt procing them then honestly you would need to throw in WAR as well with Fell Cleave as I'm sure a PDT WAR & a PDT RDM could do that without any problem at all, simply FC the same as you would in Abyssea with more PDT to make up for not having atma.

Come to think of it a smart FC group could probably FC Dyna... RDM spam diaga for procs in magic time, WAR spam FC for WS time, have WAR and RDM /DNC for when JA time comes. All would be somewhat fast depending on luck of procs and you could move between 2~3 types of mobs due to the small distance between mobs in Dynamis.

Except, in your view it's still OP, or does difficulty of making an OP weapon/shield suddenly change that in your mind?

[Komori]

BST's pets aren't affected because Call Beast is a JA.

And as far as I know, there is no JA that is directly influenced by skill level. There would be no way to incoporate a nerf without everyone suffering greatly (by having all JA influenced by skills)

or nerfing both good and bad BSTs in the process or killing BST completely. BST is already excluded from group play and removing it's incredible power to solo means the job could literally never be played at all.

[Demon6324236]

The goal is not to nerf BST via make the job weaker simply to make a naked/undergeared BST suffer the same as most naked/undergeared jobs would. As it has been said over and over again a BST naked can perform decent enough to do things with nothing more than a jug and some treats for reward. Other jobs must gear and/or skill to become as strong as a naked BST. Fully geared BST vs fully geared other jobs they perform about the same or other jobs pull ahead. In which case wouldn't it be bad for BST? If jobs pull ahead of it when geared/skilled and its only better when everyone is naked and unskilled you would think there is little room for growth in the job which means it should probably be better rewarding and more spread out.