Scholar Has lost it's ability to be useful, please fix this.

[Delvish]

Original poster has no ability to be useful on the most useful job in the game (IMO)... Please fix this.

Please read the entire thread, or let me summarize by 1 overkill 2hr does not equal useful.

[Thorbean]

Wait... So it's not useful to be able to regen V, phalanx and barspell the entire party, boost their stats and fill a healer role. Then switch and throw out 5-6 powerfull nukes + helix before switching back to light arts for more 700ish hp cures (1350-1400 if needed) +status removal spells. All that at 10% less MP cost than others, while maintaining high MP via sublimation and conserve MP.

I'm not talking about their 2 hour, but if you want to add that into the mix then by all means do so. Outside of abby, embrava is only 15 mins of 2 hours. a skilled SCH gets alot done in those 105 mins.

Inside abby it gets even better, with the ability to tank zone bosses etc. if your tank gets hit with a 1 hit KO move. On numerous occasions I held glavoid for the entire duration of my team mates weakness if a high disgorge got through. Just standing still rotating stoneskin, blink and the occasional re-regen V. Not that it matters in abby as a 4 year old could succeed in there.

I play mostly just in a duo with a THF. Embrava isn't such a massive bonus when you dont have a full party of melee's to make use of it. Sure it's awesome, but if that's all the scholars you play with are doing, then you are playing with bad scholars.

If you really think SCH is useless outside of embrava then you either don't play the job, are terrible at it or the ones you are playing with are terrible.
/thread.

[Dantedmc]

Wait... So it's not useful to be able to regen V, phalanx and barspell the entire party, boost their stats and fill a healer role. Then switch and throw out 5-6 powerfull nukes + helix before switching back to light arts for more 700ish hp cures (1350-1400 if needed) +status removal spells. All that at 10% less MP cost than others, while maintaining high MP via sublimation and conserve MP.

I don't know what kind of parties you're in, but if someone decided to only cast regen V / phalanx on me and then started nuking. I'd be pretty upset. Sch usually sticks to one role at a time. Constantly switching just depletes stratagems and isn't that helpful. Now I'm not saying sch can't switch roles in emergencies, but you should never plan to be constantly switching. The 10% reduction isn't going to make sch stand out either because many whms and blms also sub sch, and mp is hardly a issue in today's ffxi.

I'm not talking about their 2 hour, but if you want to add that into the mix then by all means do so. Outside of abby, embrava is only 15 mins of 2 hours. a skilled SCH gets alot done in those 105 mins.

Inside abby it gets even better, with the ability to tank zone bosses etc. if your tank gets hit with a 1 hit KO move. On numerous occasions I held glavoid for the entire duration of my team mates weakness if a high disgorge got through. Just standing still rotating stoneskin, blink and the occasional re-regen V. Not that it matters in abby as a 4 year old could succeed in there.

Whm can do this better by spamming extremely powerful cures with 350+ instant stoneskins.

I play mostly just in a duo with a THF. Embrava isn't such a massive bonus when you dont have a full party of melee's to make use of it. Sure it's awesome, but if that's all the scholars you play with are doing, then you are playing with bad scholars.

Embrava is still extremely useful lowman, fulltime embrava in abyssea speeds up practically everything, and even outside abyssea in events like dynamis when working on trials.

If you really think SCH is useless outside of embrava then you either don't play the job, are terrible at it or the ones you are playing with are terrible.
/thread.

Sch's main role is embrava with other emphasis being on stun spam. This is a fact, not an opinion.

[Delvish]

I apologize, I figured you were among the hordes of others who think it is all about Embrava. In this case however, you recognize everything that SCH is good at, however, you also mentioned everything (sans Regen) that a WHM or a BLM can also do even better.

I completely agree that SCH is not useless by any means and in that respect the OP is wrong. However, we are only good at what other jobs already have and excell at. Our unique abilities to include Modus Veritas, Libra, merited stratagems and our MP stratagems, Animus Augeo/Minuo, Klimaform (on anyone without empy +2 boots), and Adloquium are all hardly usefull.

[Thorbean]

I don't know what kind of parties you're in, but if someone decided to only cast regen V / phalanx on me and then started nuking. I'd be pretty upset. Sch usually sticks to one role at a time. Constantly switching just depletes stratagems and isn't that helpful. Now I'm not saying sch can't switch roles in emergencies, but you should never plan to be constantly switching. The 10% reduction isn't going to make sch stand out either because many whms and blms also sub sch, and mp is hardly a issue in today's ffxi.

I don't know what kind of parties you are in but if you need more than Regen V + -45 damage/hit phalanx and maybe a bar spell then your SCH team mate will probs be pretty upset too O.o. Let's be honest, it takes around 60 seconds to helix + throw out a few nukes while weather swapping (at the absolute most). If you can't last that long with Regen V then you should probs rethink your strategy and bring more appropriate gear for the situation? You can always halt your attack and switch back to LA if you really need to, but that shouldn't happen often. Remember your party should be aware of what you are doing, don't just do it without letting them know.

Whm can do this better by spamming extremely powerful cures with 350+ instant stoneskins.

Nobody is disputing that WHM is an amazing healer, thats it's job after all. Those cures are rarely needed if you are fully buffed and geared right. In a small party that is, If you have 10 people eating AoE then you are doing it wrong. and a WHM would be hard pressed to keep up with that without 69hp/tic regen easing the load.

Ps. 45 reduction phalanx on the party absorbs more damage than 350 cureskins over the duration of a fight.

Embrava is still extremely useful lowman, fulltime embrava in abyssea speeds up practically everything, and even outside abyssea in events like dynamis when working on trials.

Again, I'm not disputing that, I'm leaving it out of the discussion because SCH is so much more than just that 1 spell. If thats all you get from your SCH's then they are also doing it wrong.

Sch's main role is embrava with other emphasis being on stun spam. This is a fact, not an opinion.

It is opinion because:
A: I have never used stun as sch because /RDM has so much more to give.
B: Lots of jobs have access to their own stun and should be able to use it well.
C: Standing around doing nothing, hovering over a stun macro is a waste of a scholars time and ability's.
D: If you need to stun so often that SCH is required for strats then you are feeding way to much TP and wasting the SCH's strats.

Are there really this many bad scholars around that all anyone thinks of them is an embrava bi**h?
The job is perfect for those of us who enjoy playing in a pair or trio, you can fill the roll of BLM and WHM for your team mate and not have to depend on other people and or timezones.

There are problems with the job i admit (such as MV and libra) but those problem abilitys could be completely removed from the game and SCH could still perform just as well. they certainly don't make the job useless. Flexibility is SCH's greatest strength, that's something only a hand full of jobs can boast.

@Delvish I'd still main SCH even if embrava was removed . I'm surprised Kaustra isn't talked about as much as embrava. when it comes to soloing NM's, a kaustra, helix, bio II and pois II + kite is an effective win with almost 0 TP feed.

I find Klimaform quite nice for landing enfeebles the target is resistant too (though that has been somewhat reduced with the new enfeeb resist system ><). I wouldn't be against a merit category for it though.

I posted a couple of suggestions for MV and libra (Mainly making MV simply add the damage again rather than multiplying, with a 100% landing rate reinstated). I agree though that these abilitys are frustrating at best.

Adloquium I rarely cast, but it can increase the frequency of WS occassionaly (IE. when your melee ends up at 99 TP, with Adl. up, they can get a WS off and the next attack round is building TP again).
I wouldn't put it in the useless camp, but 1-2 gear pieces that increase TP by 1 per tick would make this a very nice spell indeed.
My LS generally ask for me to come as SCH if they are doing anything hard, alot more than they ask for a WHM or BLM at least. I'm not exactly trigger happy when it comes to casting embrava either, I usually save it for when somethin goes wrong or I need the extra HP/tick when soloing stuff.
My machine struggles in huge alliances though so any party I'm in is usually no more than 6 bodies. AoE 850 cures with Aurorastorm (I only have 19% cure potency atm ) + regen is more than enough to get the job done.

I'm not saying it's better than all other mage jobs, I'm saying that it can fill either roll (or both at a push) with just as much success for the party. It is far far from useless.

Edit: Woah! for the love of god TL;DR.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I don't know what kind of parties you are in but if you need more than Regen V + -45 damage/hit phalanx and maybe a bar spell then your SCH team mate will probs be pretty upset too O.o. Let's be honest, it takes around 60 seconds to helix + throw out a few nukes while weather swapping (at the absolute most). If you can't last that long with Regen V then you should probs rethink your strategy and bring more appropriate gear for the situation? You can always halt your attack and switch back to LA if you really need to, but that shouldn't happen often. Remember your party should be aware of what you are doing, don't just do it without letting them know.



Nobody is disputing that WHM is an amazing healer, thats it's job after all. Those cures are rarely needed if you are fully buffed and geared right. In a small party that is, If you have 10 people eating AoE then you are doing it wrong. and a WHM would be hard pressed to keep up with that without 69hp/tic regen easing the load.

Ps. 45 reduction phalanx on the party absorbs more damage than 350 cureskins over the duration of a fight.



Again, I'm not disputing that, I'm leaving it out of the discussion because SCH is so much more than just that 1 spell. If thats all you get from your SCH's then they are also doing it wrong.



It is opinion because:
A: I have never used stun as sch because /RDM has so much more to give.
B: Lots of jobs have access to their own stun and should be able to use it well.
C: Standing around doing nothing, hovering over a stun macro is a waste of a scholars time and ability's.
D: If you need to stun so often that SCH is required for strats then you are feeding way to much TP and wasting the SCH's strats.

Are there really this many bad scholars around that all anyone thinks of them is an embrava bi**h?
The job is perfect for those of us who enjoy playing in a pair or trio, you can fill the roll of BLM and WHM for your team mate and not have to depend on other people and or timezones.

There are problems with the job i admit (such as MV and libra) but those problem abilitys could be completely removed from the game and SCH could still perform just as well. they certainly don't make the job useless. Flexibility is SCH's greatest strength, that's something only a hand full of jobs can boast.

@Delvish I'd still main SCH even if embrava was removed . I'm surprised Kaustra isn't talked about as much as embrava. when it comes to soloing NM's, a kaustra, helix, bio II and pois II + kite is an effective win with almost 0 TP feed.

I find Klimaform quite nice for landing enfeebles the target is resistant too (though that has been somewhat reduced with the new enfeeb resist system ><). I wouldn't be against a merit category for it though.

I posted a couple of suggestions for MV and libra (Mainly making MV simply add the damage again rather than multiplying, with a 100% landing rate reinstated). I agree though that these abilitys are frustrating at best.

Adloquium I rarely cast, but it can increase the frequency of WS occassionaly (IE. when your melee ends up at 99 TP, with Adl. up, they can get a WS off and the next attack round is building TP again).
I wouldn't put it in the useless camp, but 1-2 gear pieces that increase TP by 1 per tick would make this a very nice spell indeed.
My LS generally ask for me to come as SCH if they are doing anything hard, alot more than they ask for a WHM or BLM at least. I'm not exactly trigger happy when it comes to casting embrava either, I usually save it for when somethin goes wrong or I need the extra HP/tick when soloing stuff.
My machine struggles in huge alliances though so any party I'm in is usually no more than 6 bodies. AoE 850 cures with Aurorastorm (I only have 19% cure potency atm ) + regen is more than enough to get the job done.

I'm not saying it's better than all other mage jobs, I'm saying that it can fill either roll (or both at a push) with just as much success for the party. It is far far from useless.

Edit: Woah! for the love of god TL;DR.

How are you getting 45 when I think the cap is 35 at 500 skill.

[Thorbean]

35 yeh my bad, I really should read over that i write before I post .
While we on the subject of phalanx my math has always said 34. Is phalanx calc not floored?

[Raksha]

I don't know what kind of parties you are in but if you need more than Regen V + -45 damage/hit phalanx and maybe a bar spell then your SCH team mate will probs be pretty upset too O.o. Let's be honest, it takes around 60 seconds to helix + throw out a few nukes while weather swapping (at the absolute most). If you can't last that long with Regen V then you should probs rethink your strategy and bring more appropriate gear for the situation? You can always halt your attack and switch back to LA if you really need to, but that shouldn't happen often. Remember your party should be aware of what you are doing, don't just do it without letting them know.



Nobody is disputing that WHM is an amazing healer, thats it's job after all. Those cures are rarely needed if you are fully buffed and geared right. In a small party that is, If you have 10 people eating AoE then you are doing it wrong. and a WHM would be hard pressed to keep up with that without 69hp/tic regen easing the load.

Ps. 45 reduction phalanx on the party absorbs more damage than 350 cureskins over the duration of a fight.



Again, I'm not disputing that, I'm leaving it out of the discussion because SCH is so much more than just that 1 spell. If thats all you get from your SCH's then they are also doing it wrong.



It is opinion because:
A: I have never used stun as sch because /RDM has so much more to give.
B: Lots of jobs have access to their own stun and should be able to use it well.
C: Standing around doing nothing, hovering over a stun macro is a waste of a scholars time and ability's.
D: If you need to stun so often that SCH is required for strats then you are feeding way to much TP and wasting the SCH's strats.

Are there really this many bad scholars around that all anyone thinks of them is an embrava bi**h?
The job is perfect for those of us who enjoy playing in a pair or trio, you can fill the roll of BLM and WHM for your team mate and not have to depend on other people and or timezones.

There are problems with the job i admit (such as MV and libra) but those problem abilitys could be completely removed from the game and SCH could still perform just as well. they certainly don't make the job useless. Flexibility is SCH's greatest strength, that's something only a hand full of jobs can boast.

@Delvish I'd still main SCH even if embrava was removed . I'm surprised Kaustra isn't talked about as much as embrava. when it comes to soloing NM's, a kaustra, helix, bio II and pois II + kite is an effective win with almost 0 TP feed.

I find Klimaform quite nice for landing enfeebles the target is resistant too (though that has been somewhat reduced with the new enfeeb resist system ><). I wouldn't be against a merit category for it though.

I posted a couple of suggestions for MV and libra (Mainly making MV simply add the damage again rather than multiplying, with a 100% landing rate reinstated). I agree though that these abilitys are frustrating at best.

Adloquium I rarely cast, but it can increase the frequency of WS occassionaly (IE. when your melee ends up at 99 TP, with Adl. up, they can get a WS off and the next attack round is building TP again).
I wouldn't put it in the useless camp, but 1-2 gear pieces that increase TP by 1 per tick would make this a very nice spell indeed.
My LS generally ask for me to come as SCH if they are doing anything hard, alot more than they ask for a WHM or BLM at least. I'm not exactly trigger happy when it comes to casting embrava either, I usually save it for when somethin goes wrong or I need the extra HP/tick when soloing stuff.
My machine struggles in huge alliances though so any party I'm in is usually no more than 6 bodies. AoE 850 cures with Aurorastorm (I only have 19% cure potency atm ) + regen is more than enough to get the job done.

I'm not saying it's better than all other mage jobs, I'm saying that it can fill either roll (or both at a push) with just as much success for the party. It is far far from useless.

Edit: Woah! for the love of god TL;DR.

You should give legion a try.

[Thorbean]

All in good time, however, I hear its generally done in big alliances and I don't really enjoy that style of play. It's hard enough getting a competent group together for nyzul and I've only been playing for 9 months. Would you only have 1 Scholar main healing for something like that though? I would think perpetuating Aurorastorm onto the WHM's would be a nice bonus in itself for that kinda thing no?

Is a job classed as useless if it's not outstanding in every area or am I missing something?

[Raksha]

typically you embrava and stun

(yeah i don't like it either, but that's what this thread is about)