Windurst region fix.

[RAIST]

Think of it this way, most areas gradually move up in levels as you move through them. Like with Inner Horutoto Ruins, the cards start at 2~3 and end up in the 8~9s, level wise its a start of lv4~5 ending in the upper 40s but they move up as you go. The GoV mobs are not as gentle, they go from level 10 mobs, to level 85 mobs, by simply moving behind a simple door. I am under the idea that if your playing Final Fantasy, part of what you do is explore, going behind a door to see whats on the other side is expected, however... finding something that is 8 times the level of what you were just fighting and yourself, isn't so expected.

That seems a reasonable point at face value...but if you are doing the research you would be aware of the threat and if you are going through a process of trial and error to learn your way around, you would quickly learn that that section of the map is not good for you right now, just like you might just as easily stumble into a nasty situarion in Giddeus and die and learn not to go in there just yet. The fundamental principles are still the same---either you know in advance, or you learn by trial and error.

Besides, that isn't the argument that was being made. The argument being put forth was that a new low level player would rage quit because they ran into a mob they could not handle. This type of scenario could play out for that type of player at any time from level 1 to 75 in the past, depending on where they explored aimlessly and at what job/level they are against the mobs they came across--that still applies just as well from level 1-99 now. So, it is a bit weak of an excuse.

Even so....they should learn from the mistake, and try something different. There are other paths that can be taken. The issue of making this change needs to have the pros and cons weighed. As it stands now, people from Windurst have obviously been finding ways to level, as evidence by the new players coming up through Genkais and such needing help at the higher levels. Each time I've searched the areas, I have always found level 90+ peoplle using the areas, but rarely find lower level players there in comparison. I'm sure this varies from server to server, but it is one of the things SE would likely want to analyze if they were to consider this concern....who stands to win/lose, and to what degree. What is wrong with bringing these points into light?

At present, it would appear (from what I've seen) it would penalize higher level players by denying them access to specific game mechanics for that region, while providing a minimal gain for the lower level players. On both sides of the equation, low level players can now and still could seek alternative camps currently close by, while higher level players would no longer have any options in that region. Lower level players still currently have a much wider range of areas to choose from than higher level players do by comparison when it comes to taking advantage of specific game mechanics in these older regions. That is an important point to be considered, and likely one of the driving points behind them making the changes in the first place---players were asking SE to make these older regions useful for higher level players, they did, and players appear to be using the new options added.

As for the point about the xp path laid out for players....I have seen this evolving gradually since WotG came out, and there really isn't a set path to follow, never really was--there was simply popular paths, but those have shifted over the years as the game has evolved with new features/options at one's disposal now. At various points, several directions open for players....it is the player's choice in which way they go. Before, yes...they may have had more variety in certain areas, and those may have been reduced for those areas--but that deoesn't meen they are out of options. They in fact still have numerous options available to them. They are not locked into JUST that one alternative path that pushed them to the Canyon, that is just one fairly obvious route. Rosina herself just brought up Amaryllis tower again:

What I used to do was level around west sarutabaruta then @ 5, I would go to the tower located north of Giddeus. The was a large square room with you smaller rooms on the left and right side. Mobs were spread out enough for quick kills, but not enough to gang bang you. And you can rest on the platforms w/o too much aggro.

That tower is still usable for lower levels in much the same fashion, it just may be laid out a bit differently now is all (I can't recall just how it was laid out 4-7 years ago, but I DID explore it earlier in this thread and found that the section she referenced is currently NOT full of 80+ mobs, but rather varying clumps of mobs bracketted from level 10 through 18. If the mobs were lower in the past, than that is a change that one needs to work around by going somewhere else for the levels the may have gone there in the past. The trick is to investigate a bit to discover how it has altered....perhaps it is simply a matter of going into a different tower now? I found one such section that had mobs up to level 7, and ther are targets in the Saras that go to level 10...just saying, there are options available for the levels that have been put into question in the thread that do not put players in such dire jeopardy as is being portrayed here.

The point that keeps getting overlooked time and time again, is that when SE made this change (made in part because they were lobbied to do something to bring players back to the older regions), they were careful to try to section them off and also made adjustments to preserve options for the lower level players. They didn't simply convert an entire zone to an elite campground and shut out the lower levels....they tried to keep things balanced.

One can argue how well they did/didn't balance it....but you can't say they completely shut out lower level players from having a viable path for leveling. What appears to be goin on here is more that there are those that either are not aware of the options (for whatever reason), or are aware but are refusing to branch out into the new direction the game has taken and are clinging on to times past that are simply are no more. Either way, this should foster a spirit of exploration/experimentation to find one's way, just the same as we all had to do in the past. Sure....some will make mistakes, sometimes fail miserably....but they should be learning from those mistakes and move on. What appears to be happening here, is some are falling into the rutt of trying to teach and old dog new tricks. That is quite frankly, more of a personal issue than a game design issue.

[RAIST]

Cid
Raist already made is point of why he posts.

His point of view summed up is "this change is a waste of time" Thats it. All his posting can sum up that he simply does not "get it" he can't see past his own nose.

Before: a player in windurst had little to no trouble finding sweett spots to level in, geting low level fame quests done. Now, a few quest need high level assistence. He refuses to see a difference because he started late in the game. He is from the "net" generation where info was online.

Windurst is a nation nearly completely cut off from the "typical" ffxi path people layed out. Most of the ffxi player base on garuda was sandy then bastok, then windurst. Infact Sandy had the sarutabaruta region when i logged on.

See as a windurst player you had to expernt with leveling due to design of the zones, the type of mobs that spawned, and the spread of the mobs. Windirst areas are some of the most open and bigger zones in game. Sandy had forest bastok had 2 large hills so mobs around these

Actually, Rosina, I never said it was a waste of time. What I actually said was:

Quite simply, the changes are not needed, and will drastically upset the structure of what the game has evolved into. You might want to take some time to review the FOV/GOV lists for those zones. They are laid out quite well to get you leveled up in a very streamlined fasion, especially with the double xp tweak.

If you are going to try to appear to quote someone, it's best if you actually quote them. If you were trying to paraphrase, need to make sure you give an accurate representation of what was actully stated. Otherwise, be prepared for rebuttal.

The Net Generation? If I remember correctly, I am considerably older than you and pre-date the Net Generation (I remember when TSR-80's and Apple IIe's were in schools, system/36, i386, the fanfare over i486 and later Pentium 90's), and I followed the game from early on....read printed guides in the BAM stores and had notes laid out for how I was going to get started and all long before I even bought the game. I was simply holding out for it to become cheaper to play (which, unfortunately never happened).Don't know where you're drawing the assumption that I'm from the Net Generation.

And, from what I've seen going on, apparently Windy citizens are not running into a lot of trouble finding ways to level, perhaps they are simply doing something different than you, IDK.

That quest in question does not require higher level help. That's just one of the easy tactics that can be deployed, just like people may have opted for in the past. There are alternative ways to get sneak/inv applied so you can progress through that dangerous section....restated because it doesn't seem to be sticking.

Nations continually take over rival nation's areas, so not sure just what you're getting at there...but Windy has never been cut off from a traditional leveling path. Each nation had and still has it's own popular paths....Bastokans didn't simply run to Sandy to level and such because that was THE path to take. People from Bastok and Sandy still experimented and find their way just the same as players from Windy. If Windy's was so terrible, more people might have switched because of it...some may have changed nations over frustration with Windy (not necessarily levelling), but many stayed for various reasons. There are other reasons people might chose a starting nation outside of how they were going to level, the grind was more or less just an accepted evil in the game regardless of where you were from.

[RAIST]

And here is the kicker, WHY was it changed? There was no reason. To my understanding no weather takes place in the ruins. So trials are pointless. No high level would want to go to windy to level, so that is out. I personally from 04-2012 have never seen a ton of ppl use these areas.

I'm not even demanding it get changed, If people do use these areas I can see, but i personally do. I'm also voicing my opinion on a chamge that 1) was never made mention from the player base. 2) never was needed in the first place.

Honesy raist, you nd this change useless, why post. Stop trying to force correct ppl with false notions.

Some theories on why they made the change have been stated in various posts by several people in the thread already.

Not all trials require weather to be present. People may have specific reasons for choosing a certain target/zone for a trial. For instance, I choose some certain beetles for a Vermin Trial because it allowed me to skillup some crafts off their drops.

I have seen higher level players in the ruins...and levelling is not the only reason people go to a zone.

If you've never seen a lot of people using these zones over 8 years....then why are you so vehemently lobbying for them to change them back? If no one is using them, why does it matter? This statement alone so greatly undermines this thread.....

Actually, the concept of a training area/event was brought forward by players and discussed in length on various forums. There was also a lot of chatter about making the old zones usable again, and requests for more options for post 75 for various reasons, amongst them skillups. SE may have done this in part to knock out several birds with one stone.

I never stated that it was pointless to change things. In the scope of the challenges presented, I said it wasn't needed with various clarifications, among them: adjustments have been made to offset issues created by the change (granted, it may still need some tweaking in some spots), it does not prevent access to content as was being presented, and changing it would disrupt access to key elements in the game that actually are being used now that the game has evolved past 75 cap.

If you have every right to express your opinion, so do I. You just seem to feel it was an unecessary change, others disagree. You feel it would be better for them to change it back, others disagree. Others here have been in opposition of you in this thread, yet you've just chosen to continually lash out at me and not them for some reason, and it is often so out there that it calls for a rebuttal/correction. That's just how things work in a point/counterpoint discussion. Guess I'm just the first one to actually try to verify the claims, and that rubbed you the wrong way, IDK....but it is getting a little old. Yo don't like when people go after you personally, so we do you insist on doing so to me when I have not?

I'm not trying to "force correct" anyone with "false notions". I've corrected misinformation, and just happened to put forth an opposing point of view that for some reason just jazzes you up. If you have the right to post information as facts whether you have vetted the information, I have every right to actually look into them and correct the record where fault is found. Facts are facts, it's either right or wrong by definition. Stating the truth after something was assumed in error is not "force correcting" someone....it is simply a correction. If you then insist on challenging the correction that has been sourced or actually checked on in game...be prepared for further rebuttal. That is not cramming it down your throat...that is a response to your challenge. If you don't like being corrected like that...might want to make sure you have the facts right in the first place.

TLDR:
A lot of things you keep bringing up have been gone over in the thread already, sometimes repeatedly--they keep coming back, because you either keep bringing it up or are misrepresenting things. IDK if some key things just are not getting through to you somehow, or you just aren't reading some posts thoroughly....but a LOT of this back and forth could have been avoided if you would have just accepted the basic truths that you did not give a clear and fair presentation of the facts, and there are people here that have just as strong an opinion on the topic as you, but just happen to have a different view on the topic than you. If you are going to be so openly opinionated and not double check your claims/posts, be prepared for opposition/correction. Don't challenge those corrections if you don't have the facts to support said challenge, or be prepared for a rebuttal. Every time a post is made in opposition to one of your posts is NOT a personal attack on you, sometimes it is just a challenge/correction of the elements presented in your post....so please, stop with the personal attacks against those that have not been attacking you personally.

[Rosina]

Raist you infact have stated that you see this as a pointless suggestion. And continue you "find" evidence to baxk it up. I know not all trial require weather. But point blank mobs found in ruins dotted around windurst are also located in other regions, so you would not need the ruins.

Also the mobs in the tower north of Giddeus pre change was solo-able from 5-13. Also Raist by net generation, i didn't mean age, I meant playing on ffxi. When I started we just played the game, did trial and error. We didn't do the "look on wiki" stuff.

Also Raist, you don't need to constently correct people when you CLEARLY "don't get it". You started ffxi later then I did. So you are not really in the know. You only know what wiki taught you. Which hate to say, in some cases have proven false.

Wiki is user created, so cases of inaccurate data will happen. It also can be freely changed by anyone with an account. So realistically anyone can write anything and state it as fact.

[Rosina]

Also raist, since you seem to not read my post at all cept what you FEEL are inaccurate statements. You would be surprised to know that the quests in question NEVER needed assistence from anything. And there is something you forget, you need tabs inorder to put book sneak/invis. Did you ever thing or grasp that a person may not have tabs?

You are not grasping any concept then what wiki or the norm tells you. That is what I'm trying to get across to you. You shouldn't assume anything. Not everyone follows wiki/ the norm like a net gen zombie.

I personally perfer more free form play instead of going by the apparent ffxi bible. To really share an opinion about this though. You would have to physically experience it for yourself. You shouldn't comment on what you assume you see. I never had an issue leveling around windy before. Now i am. Its not really the difficaulty. It is on the fact that I'm running more then killing. Which for me gets dull fast. Mobs in the zones are too spread out.

[Rosina]

I never stated any reply here was a personal attack outside the one triss made. But what i find a bit pathetic, is you feel that i have no "good enough" reason to suggest this. I think that is a rude statement.
Honestly, by your stance, no reason no matter how well thought out would ever be good enough for you. And really, why defend the mob level increase in what was low-mid level areas? Is it not the point of leveling to explore FARTHER from the city?

Also how does it make any sence to have mobs start out from low-mid level, you open a door and they are all of a sudden high level. To me that is silly. It does turn a player off. Just read ffxiv forums in the past or old reviews. That was a major complaint. Mob levels show flow naturally through out the zones/regions and dungeons. NOT have sudden "omgwtf" increases. That makes the region unblanced.

Basically, I'm suggesting this to return the mob balance/ placement go back to normal. There is no need to have high level mobs in starter cities regions.

[Rosina]

it is a bit unfair that high level players get areas that were once for low-mid levels. Plus all the areas they had from the get go, and areas that got added. A low level became very limited in choice. My choices ti level around windy: west/east sarutabaruta (a few pages here are tedious at best due to how spread out mobs are) the canyon (hard to navigate at times, mobs spread out.) the east sarutabaruta towers (link/aggro is too high so death rate is pretty high) Giddeus (link/aggro is too high, death rate high) And that is it really. I shouldn't be forced to waste my play time running to a different area just to "try" to level. (as in going to a different nation)

[Demon6324236]

it is a bit unfair that high level players get areas that were once for low-mid levels

Its because there are more high levels than low levels...

[RAIST]

Raist you infact have stated that you see this as a pointless suggestion. And continue you "find" evidence to baxk it up. I know not all trial require weather. But point blank mobs found in ruins dotted around windurst are also located in other regions, so you would not need the ruins.

Also the mobs in the tower north of Giddeus pre change was solo-able from 5-13. Also Raist by net generation, i didn't mean age, I meant playing on ffxi. When I started we just played the game, did trial and error. We didn't do the "look on wiki" stuff.

Also Raist, you don't need to constently correct people when you CLEARLY "don't get it". You started ffxi later then I did. So you are not really in the know. You only know what wiki taught you. Which hate to say, in some cases have proven false.

Wiki is user created, so cases of inaccurate data will happen. It also can be freely changed by anyone with an account. So realistically anyone can write anything and state it as fact.

I did not state it as being pointless....I even quoted what I said. Again, you have misrepresented the conversation. This is exactly what I was talking about.

And I do get it, and I too experimented....even stated it at some point that I did so with subjobs to see how alternative combinations played out. And if someone is going to continually spout false information against something I just checked out, yes...I'm going to correct it if someone else doesn't do it first. If anything, it might be you that isn't getting it. You are refusing to accept that there is a reasonable, accepted means to avoid the dangers presented that challenges the direness of the situation as it was presented, and that the changes actually did serve a purpose and do fulfill a need. What you are requesting to fulfill your perceived need can already be fulfiilled easily, you are just refusing to accept change I guess. IDK why you were struggling so hard when so many others have not---especially considering you are a veteran player vs. 13 year olds that are new to the game.

OK, so the mobs are available where... in a rival nations area? Or somewhere out in no-man's land that requires lengthy travel to get too? Isn't that one of the same arguments that you've used--don't want to have to travel so much? If you feel it is a viable excuse on one hand, it can be applied to the other as well. You've been round and round so much.. I think you're starting to undermine your own position.

Whether I started in 2004 or late 2005 makes no difference if I too have actually explored and played the game extensively and have experienced the challenges. I never stated all I knew was what Wiki taught me...you are making assumptions again. As you are so fond of bringing up in other threads, you've never played with me and know nothing of my playstyle outside of what has been posted here. Many that have played at length with me will attest to the fact I try repeatedly to accomplish things on my own before I ask for help--and as such I've made a buttload of mistakes, and suffered countless deaths and delevels from it. It's a running joke amongst friends that I'm a connoisseur of Vana' diel dirt. They all know that if I'm asking for help...I'm having a hard time with it. I continually get asked where to do a trial, where to skillup, where to level, where/when is it best to farm this or that. So yes, I've explored in places I had no business being there...thwacked a certain dragon in the nuts when it drew me in as a last great act of defiance before he bit my head off....it's nothing new to me, and just another day in the life for me. I have engaged in sprited debate about theories, gears, events and often take a "show me" or "let me test it for myself" approach for a lot of it---to the point I have spent hours/days testing something just because I wanted to see it with my own eyes. so, please, take a look at your own experiences on these forums before you go on the attack with such assumptions about a player's experience with this game.

Everyone who's been around this game for an extensive amount of time knows that wiki's aren't always 100% correct initially, but most eventually do get corrected--by people who actually test/experience it. And the things I've cited from them have stood the test of time. The FoV/GoV data and references is collected not only from the books in game, but also what I and others have experienced from participating in the content.

I even took the time to verify some information in game, I wasn't just citing wiki's....beginning to wonder just how much of the information in this thread you've actually been digesting.

[Rosina]

Its because there are more high levels than low levels...

and the game is not newbie friendly as it once was.