Where is my Phoenix Down?!

[Zyeriis]

It's not a matter of opinion that they're useful regardless of reraise. It can be proven easily. Here:

I'm an adventurer, I cast reraise and fight a hard fight with a group. I die, reraise item is used up. I die again, but the WHM is also dead, phoenix down brings me back up.

Phoenix Down was useful in that situation functioning as it would in any other game in the series. The only way it wouldn't be a fact is if it was implemented in a way that bared no resemblance to the rest of the franchise, which the vast majority of the items in the game don't do. Potions are still potions, ethers are still ethers, etc.

My statement that I think it's positive that the monopoly on party presence that healers have being lessened is a positive is an opinion yes, however no matter how small the reduction in their necessity may be, any change is in fact a change and therefore the first part of that sentence is a fact.

How many chances do you need? Dying has to mean something, that's why it's called dying.

That's what Reraise is, your second chance. You have to fail at some point, that's called experience.

[Flunklesnarkin]

1) If either you or your healer die, more than once (thus resulting in no RR). You failed. Get over it.

2) If you didn't bring a healer and die, more than once (thus resulting in no RR) or die once without having RR. You failed the moment you left unprepared. Get over it.

If you can't comprehend how this quote is related to the topic.. you are dumb.. FACT

[lowkey]

Phoenix downs would be useful even in the presence of reraise. Fact.

Sneak/invisible are useful even in the presence of silent oils/prism powders. Fact.

It's still your place to come prepared at all times, and failing to do so habitually, will cause people, especially mages to hate you, and eventually exclude you. Being prepared means oils, powders, rr items, whatever misc. medicines that may be required, getting cut scenes and other soloable stuff done on your own time, etc. No one wants to hold your hand. Fact.

[Coldbrand]

Agreed. Good thing Phoenix Downs would enhance your ability to prepare!

[Krashport]

Sneak/invisible are useful even in the presence of silent oils/prism powders. Fact.

Having options. Fact. ^^

[Zyeriis]

U failed lol omg xD so randum

I'm glad you're not a game designer, and sorry you expect everything to go smoothly. A large part of the fun in earlier FF games is managing weakened party members and trying to stabilize mid fight via raise/phoenix down etc. Have you played them? I strongly doubt there weren't boss fights that didn't present this situation to you, unless you just grind out for hours before progressing in each title.

Here an example of this kind of gameplay being exciting in really oldschool FFXI as proof of concept that the afforementioned gameplay can exist in the XI environment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQLCN_qqFY

I have to call you an idiot again? Cause I will. You're the one who wants the phoenix downs to extend your ability to stay in the fight, to smooth out a process of never failing. Phoenix downs, in FFXI, wouldn't create the environment you are looking for as it already exists through reraise. It would only add an extra layer of not failing, which is dumb, the game is already lost a great deal of difficulty.

[Coldbrand]

So adding complexity is dumbing it down? Nice argument there champ. Did you know that as a result of adding in the oldschool stabilize via raise/reraise/phoenix down gameplay they could make newer fights designed with that functionality in mind harder? Ouch.

[Flunklesnarkin]

So adding complexity is dumbing it down? Nice argument there champ. Did you know that as a result of adding in the oldschool stabilize via raise/reraise/phoenix down gameplay they could make newer fights designed with that functionality in mind harder? Ouch.

Redundancy =/= complexity .. Fact

Failing to plan for reraise/healing is noobish.. Fact

[Alderin]

Just make it a high level Alchemy craft that you cannot buy from NPC's. Requires Fire Crystal, Phoenix Feather, Black Ink and Bomb Ash. Make Phoenix Feathers drop off certain regular mobs in Abyssea, as Bomb Ash isn't the most common thing to come across - it would also increase the price of them a bit.

Make the materials for the synth reasonably difficult to obtain, keeping the prices on AH reasonably high, and people won't spam them - but will use them for emergencies. Stackable to 12, not 99.

As much as it would be nice to have stackable meds to 99, it would shoot Alchemists in the foot and reduce the value of items like Echo Drops and Holy Water far too much to be worth it. (Now that is a different topic that belongs on a different thread, but no meds should be stackable to 99. Including these Phoenix Downs.)

[Coldbrand]

Redundancy =/= complexity .. Fact

Failing to plan for reraise/healing is noobish.. Fact

Phoenix Downs and Raise being in the same game isn't really redundant, unless you think every single other FF game ever made has redundant gameplay options. Trying to stabilize in an intense boss fight in those games was a very fine balance that some might consider complex especially considering the various status effects and conditions the enemies who usually put you in that spot can induce.

Also, weren't you the one crying when you thought I was making judgements about players skill levels earlier? And now you're saying that unless you have a WHM stapled to your side you're a "noob"? I'm not sure I follow. And if you're such a fan of preparation, let me tell you, phoenix downs have been an integral part of preparation in every other flagship title in the entire franchise, ask anyone who's actually played them and understands their inherent value which seems to be beyond you!