Where is my Phoenix Down?!

[Zyeriis]

Actually let me rephrase before I go to sleep.

Doing it that way, would completely nullify your argument regarding adding "complexity" to the game and making new "harder" enemies with it, wouldn't be possible. You are changing your stance on the matter to avoid being wrong (and it going to fail either way0. If they were expensive, then they would not serve the very purpose you want to adamantly defend: using them a lot in battle. Which as you said, is a staple of all the single player final fantasy games. Making them rare/ex also nullifies this staple and your argument. If they were cheap, and non rare-ex they would be overpowered and stupid. If they were cheap and rare/ex, they'd still only be one use things, which is different from what you were arguing. If they were expensive and non rare/ex, they would still be overpowered but they would only be usable by people who are already decked out, making them relatively useless.

Anyway, going to sleep, it's 5:30 am....sun's gonna be up soon...

[Coldbrand]

How does having them be rare/ex nullify their staple status? As soon as they appear in the game that condition has been met.

I'm not moving any goalposts. I want them in. I want alternatives to casters with raise. I want stabilizing wars mid-boss fight like in all the other games in the franchise. I've been against them being stackable to 99 which you put in my mouth in the first place.

Haven't changed on any of these stances.

Sorry you haven't played the other FF games, but as anyone who has can attest, a lot of those boss fights were WAY more intense than your average NM or even CS boss fight, and one excuse to present harder fights would be making it so that you could get up the healer once per battle and thus not be dead the second they go down. There's no need for quotations about any of those concepts which are hardly theoretical since they exist in the rest of the franchise and have done so for more than a decade.

Their being expensive is someone else's argument, which I am against. That'd make them pointless like the majority of the other items alchemist produce simply from the standpoint that they're too costly to be used regularly.

Anyhow, I'm not too concerned since SE seems to be on my side of things as is evidenced by almost all new content providing players with temp. items freely which make the game function more like a traditional FF. (Besieged, Campaign, Abyssea)

[Zyeriis]

How does having them be rare/ex nullify their staple status? As soon as they appear in the game that condition has been met.

I'm not moving any goalposts. I want them in. I want alternatives to casters with raise. I want stabilizing wars mid-boss fight like in all the other games in the franchise. I've been against them being stackable to 99 which you put in my mouth in the first place.

Haven't changed on any of these stances.

Sorry you haven't played the other FF games, but as anyone who has can attest, a lot of those boss fights were WAY more intense than your average NM or even CS boss fight, and one excuse to present harder fights would be making it so that you could get up the healer once per battle and thus not be dead the second they go down. There's no need for quotations about any of those concepts which are hardly theoretical since they exist in the rest of the franchise and have done so for more than a decade.

Their being expensive is someone else's argument, which I am against. That'd make them pointless like the majority of the other items alchemist produce simply from the standpoint that they're too costly to be used regularly.

Anyhow, I'm not too concerned since SE seems to be on my side of things as is evidenced by almost all new content providing players with temp. items freely which make the game function more like a traditional FF. (Besieged, Campaign, Abyssea)

ts;dr (like tl;dr but worse)

[Vangoh]

MY GOD PEOPLE!!!!! Stop the fighting!!! I had to go to sleep 'cause I was sleepy but....has any of the con-phoenix down has stated a reason why is a bad idea or they just say "is unnecessary and annoying" that's all I hear, in contrast to that I just made a quick reading on the post and some dude gave a good point. Why are there oils/powders when there is already sneak/invis? Why are there antidotes when there are poisona/paralyna/etc? So is just natural to have a phoenix down in the game to raise other people. I don't see how this would create a black hole in the universe and suck it all in.

AND FOR THE RECORD, I NEVER EVER! Said anything about reraising one self I strictly and specifically said that a Phoenix Down would only serve to the purpose of raising ANOTHER person when they're down. And for those who still don't know what a Phoenix Down is, it's an item from previous Final Fantasys' that would do the same effect as the spell Life(which is called Raise in FFXI) and would revive from KO to whoever was down without the need of using mp or requiring a mage's presence to do so.

[Zyeriis]

MY GOD PEOPLE!!!!! Stop the fighting!!! I had to go to sleep 'cause I was sleepy but....has any of the con-phoenix down has stated a reason why is a bad idea or they just say "is unnecessary and annoying" that's all I hear, in contrast to that I just made a quick reading on the post and some dude gave a good point. Why are there oils/powders when there is already sneak/invis? Why are there antidotes when there are poisona/paralyna/etc? So is just natural to have a phoenix down in the game to raise other people. I don't see how this would create a black hole in the universe and suck it all in.

AND FOR THE RECORD, I NEVER EVER! Said anything about reraising one self I strictly and specifically said that a Phoenix Down would only serve to the purpose of raising ANOTHER person when they're down. And for those who still don't know what a Phoenix Down is, it's an item from previous Final Fantasys' that would do the same effect as the spell Life(which is called Raise in FFXI) and would revive from KO to whoever was down without the need of using mp or requiring a mage's presence to do so.

1) Actually read the posts.
2) Powders/Oils are self target.
3) Antidotes are self target.
4) Your second post has multiple instances of talking about reraise.
5) I'm not getting into how pointless or overpowered this would be, again, if you cannot see it by now, I pity you.

[Vangoh]

4) Your second post has multiple instances of talking about reraise.

No foo! To make it short what my second post meant was "Who the hell is talking about reraise? forget reraise and focus on the topic of the thread" people started with reraise on the post before me you just read it wrong, get it right and don't twist what I said. And yes those items are self targeted but they also exist for the same purpose that their respective derived spell. And no, as I said you people only say how unnecessary the item is and for some reason don't back up your responses only say is no good, gimme a good why not.

[Zyeriis]

No foo! To make it short what my second post meant was "Who the hell is talking about reraise? forget reraise and focus on the topic of the thread" people started with reraise on the post before me you just read it wrong, get it right and don't twist what I said. And yes those items are self targeted but they also exist for the same purpose that their respective derived spell. And no, as I said you people only say how unnecessary the item is and for some reason don't back up your responses only say is no good, gimme a good why not.

Refer to #1. Not getting into this again.

[InfamousDS]

For Clarification:

Raise: Available to WHM and SCH at level 25. RDM and PLD @ 50+. As a subjob spell for 50+.
Reraise: Available to WHM and SCH at level 25. No other jobs. As a subjob spell @ 50+.
Reraise Scroll: 1-time use only, not the easiest item to reacquire mid-event.
Reraise Equipment: Varied, but mostly expensive for ~10 charges. While more than 1 can be carried, the equipment slot must be changed in order to be used. Additionally, in high-death situations, the recast may not be available.
Reraise Items: Generally hard to acquire, almost always (R), 1-time use.

While it is physically possible to carry as many as 4 or more RR means at any given time, it is not economic. 4 inventory slots are taken, and the cost (of time or gil) outweighs the gain. A Phoenix Down, in its purest form, (i.e the way they were used in other games) would allow the other 18 jobs to raise before level 50. It would also allow more fluid events, because the designated healers would not have to take time casting a relative long spell while the monster deals constant high damage (thus taking the chance of another player dying). If 4 important people are dead in an alliance of 18, but you only have 3 main heal and 2 support heal (support are both Dancer), then all your heavy healers are preoccupied. As a career Dancer, I can say safely that while we have the ability to heal well, the recast timers on Cure are much more forgiving in high-tension situations like the above. A Phoenix Down would allow anyone else to assist in raising, taking away the temporary strain on the healers, and may even prevent further death.