New Red Mage Spells

[Economizer]

I realize a lot of these aren't new spells, but that doesn't make them great ideas for the class.

Yeah, I kinda have a hard time thinking unique spells for Red Mage that aren't special enfeebles that others have or stuff SE has said no to, or stuff that should go to other classes (I wonder if now is a good time to pitch Reposega again). Buffs are generally something that White Mage and Red Mage share with rare exceptions (like Red Mage's Refresh, Temper, or Enspells, or Scholar's Adloquium), and SE already gave thumbs down to another tier of Enspells.

The way Reflect was suggested was actually aimed toward White Mage incidentally, but I think in exchange for the amount of shared magic, Red Mage will get it to. Kinship of certain traits shared by classes should earn Red Mages that.

All that said, Red Mage should get some more AoE enfeebles. They don't get Sleepga/Breakga, but they should get Paralyzra and Slowga. That way you need multiple classes for that crowd control, and each fills an important but logical niche. Even if somehow Red Mage ended up sharing White Magic based enfeebles with White Mage, they'd get the top tier I'd think, especially if we see decoupling of enfeeble merits to be effect based or even adding the AoE tiers as something the merits provide later.

Well, I can hope anyways.

[Dreamx]

Is RDM ever going to be useful again?

-In before "It's useful as a paperweight".


That's my only question.

[Muse]

• Plague effect enfeebling magic spell:
  Since there are already abilities that add a plague effect, we don’t really feel a necessity to add it to red mage’s arsenal. Also, since DoT-related magic spells are scholars forte, this wouldn't be something that is unique to red mage.

What is Red Mage's forte then? Scholar has Red Mage beat on all magics but Enfeebling Magic. (Basing only off of Magic Skill Ratings here) It seems we, RDM's, are suppose to be the enhancer of the group, especially with the new two-hour that was just announced for RDM, but SCH has us beaten by leaps and bounds in this category. So that only leaves us with our one real niche. We can land, or use too, enfeebles better then every other job and make those effects stick hard.

One spell, Plague, would not balance as RDM's are born enfeeblers, and need an enfeebling spell to call their own. If not more of them. MP and TP reduction would be a nice fit into the RDM's arsenal of crippling effects.

That feels like a cheap excuse. There are already abilities that inflict Poison, Paralyze, Slow, Blind, Defense Down, and Attack Down, but none of those stops RDM from having equivalent spells. Plague's MP/TP reduction would be the perfect compliment to Poison's HP reduction.

SCH may specialize in DoT magic, but SCH didn't originate it, nor does it corner the market on DoT magic. RDM haivng Plague wouldn't compromise SCH's abilities in the slightest.

I completely agree with Sunrider's statement. There are several other JA's that inflict status effects and there is a magic equivalent for those. Why not Plague also?

Also, SCH's may "claim" to be the best in DoT magic, but are not. Helix's are unreliable, and doesn't have any other DoT's, not including Kaustra, that POP out as being the best. RDM has access to Dia 3 and Bio 3, where no other job does. Not to mention that BLM has more of a corner on DoT's then SCH with their elemental DoT's and access to the other DoT's, except Dia, without the use of a support job.

Scholar on the other hand does not natively have access to poison, dia, or bio. It has to use a support job in order to have access to these spells. So how is DoT magic a SCH's forte over the other jobs that already does it better?

As mentioned previously, the Development Team is looking into adding new spells that will be quite different from the current list available.

I'm glad to hear that we will be receiving some new spells sometime in the future. But, I'm also weary that these spells will only focus on enhancing magic, or further push Red Mage away from a party aspect. I'm also weary that these "new spells" will be all jobs, and make Red Mage even less unique then it already is.

Not to say I don't mind solo'ing on my RDM.

[Lastranger]

Good evening!

As we are approaching max capacity for adding magic we are in a situation where it is difficult to add new spells on a short-term basis, and this is not only limited to red mage. To clarify, this doesn’t mean we cannot add new magic, it just means we first need to address the expansion of the magic spell capacity, so this will take a bit of time.

Next, in regards to some of the suggestions and requests we have been seeing.

• Plague effect enfeebling magic spell:
  Since there are already abilities that add a plague effect, we don’t really feel a necessity to add it to red mage’s arsenal. Also, since DoT-related magic spells are scholars forte, this wouldn't be something that is unique to red mage.
  
  
• Stronger version of Dia/Bio:
  Red mages already have Dia 3 and Bio 3 from merit points which are considerably powerful version of these spells.

As mentioned previously, the Development Team is looking into adding new spells that will be quite different from the current list available.

Well i got an idea how we can make some room for spells

Remember all those single cast spells rdm has that only we have while whm get aoe version lets delete em and replace em with something that narowly makes us slightly more party friendly.

There that should have opened up ohh about 20+ spell slots not bad for a single idea, oh and dont bother with the we not giving rdm aoe spells, its a old poor excuse, get with the times rdm needs a very big overhaul after all the new jobs released over the years because the game has changed since rdm originally came out let the old view of rdm die and reinvent it

Let us have nice buff's for self and party because cycles never coming back, let us have decent DOT spells at higher tiers then curently availible cuz no one cares if those can kill something in 2 hours when other DD jobs do the same in like 5 min solo, dont let soloist that have too much time be what the job is balanced for.

And finaly if no new tiers of enspells fix the tier 2 ones, no one will think a rdm with double enspell 1 dmg on all hits is overpowered, heck and a way to drain mp on all hits for further dmg, im sure RNf will get that now that i think of it.

Also DO A REAL MERIT OVERHAUL, a lot of mage merits are a joke, make spells into scrolls and give real merits, and reduce single element boost to acc into 1 merit for all elements and add something that u know reflects the RDM job division, also Regain would be nice and please lower level of regen 2 on rdm and give us at least level 3.

As i said theres a lot to fix so get to it, Pwetty pwease ....

Also /Comfort okiput , seems like u drew the short straw or lost a bet over there as u get all of the offical no we CANT posts today.

[Raksha]

[list][*]Plague effect enfeebling magic spell:
Since there are already abilities that add a plague effect, we don’t really feel a necessity to add it to red mage’s arsenal. Also, since DoT-related magic spells are scholars forte, this wouldn't be something that is unique to red mage.

What?

You guys realize that the only DoT spells SCH gets are helixes and kaustra right?

Blm gets more DoTs than SCH.

[Quetzacoatl]

Goddamn it SE, why do you hate RDM so much and why must you make me want to take it off life support?!

Red mages are now on par with Puppetmasters in terms of uselessness at this point.

[Mattk]

DoT related spells are SCH's forte? That makes about as much sense as saying Enfeebling Magic is RDM's forte...oh wait. By the way the immunobreak system sucks. I'll let you know when I get enough immunobreaks to land Gravity II before a NM gets butt raped by DD's.

[Sunrider]

The problem with RDM's "usefulness" is that there simply aren't events that cater to multipurpose utility. If it isn't high octane healing, damage, or buffing, there's simply not enough room for it.

Campaign and Besieged are examples of events that reward multi-talented classes. The jobs that capably buff (both self and others), heal, nuke, enfeeble, and melee were the ones that received the greatest points, specialization only limited your gains.

Walk of Echoes had potential as a larger-scale Campaign-like event, but the devs couldn't decide whether they wanted to promote party play or individualistic rewards, and so it ended up largely a system where some players sacrificed for the group's victory while others reaped the benefits of that victory from a point system that favored their role.

Events like Voidwatch simply will not favor jobs like RDM without either expanding it's Weapon Skill selection, or turning it into a clone of WHM or SCH. What we need is more differentiation between the magical classes, not less.

Events like Nyzul and perhaps even Einherjar hold potential for facilitation of hybrid classes, Einherjar particularly if the devs can get over this need for monsters powerful enough to require specialized DDs. Creating something like a high-level Garrison (or more refined WoE), and peppering it with loot comparable to current popular events, would be the key to giving RDM (and other hybridized jobs) a place to shine.

[Muras]

As we are approaching max capacity for adding magic we are in a situation where it is difficult to add new spells on a short-term basis, and this is not only limited to red mage. To clarify, this doesn’t mean we cannot add new magic, it just means we first need to address the expansion of the magic spell capacity, so this will take a bit of time.

Really makes me curious what the exact limitations are. From what I can see, there's currently a total of 440 spells in the game that players can use (Including Impact from Twilight Cloak). I'm just really curious... What is the maximum? 512 perhaps...?

[*]Stronger version of Dia/Bio:
Red mages already have Dia 3 and Bio 3 from merit points which are considerably powerful version of these spells.

If the devs aren't already aware, there is ongoing contention at the very nature of merited spells and abilities. There are a myriad of reasons, not the least of which being that placing spells under merits artificially blocks the potential for any higher tiers. So long as Dia and Bio 3 remain merits, there's little hope of seeing Dia and Bio 4 under anything but future merits.

There is also major discontent with the limited point allocation for merit spells, which forces an illusory specialization on a class billed for it's diversity.

I really agree with this. The merited spells and abilities made sense when the game was capped at 75, and was thought to be capped at 75 until the end of time. Since the cap increase however, some spells have been completely held back because of their merited counterparts. Protect V was one of the spells that were really messed up because of this, but at least that was fixed. However, the spell effects for Bio IV to VI (Or at least V) are already in the game, but we'll never see them because they're being held back because RDM has Bio III as a merited spell (You can find the effects on YouTube).

And they're not "considerably powerful"... They're just Bio III/Dia III. The DoT isn't significantly higher than the tier II spells (And I hear a DRK's Bio II DoT does as much, if not more than a RDM's Bio III because of their higher Dark Magic), and neither is their attack/defence down. This is expected though... It's just one tier higher than the last. I imagine Bio V would be powerful though.

Here's just a thought to pass onto the dev team... Why not just completely revamp RDM's catagory 2, and add stuff that RDM might actually like while adding the current catagory 2 spells as scrolls? Yes, I understand that this might mean some RDMs losing merits put into the spells but... Merits are easy to get now so it's not that big of a deal. And if RDMs get better abilities and spells, I think it'd be worth it. Especially since it'd mean WHM/BLM/RDM/DRK can get higher tiers of Bio and Dia.

Also, SCH's may "claim" to be the best in DoT magic, but are not. Helix's are unreliable, and doesn't have any other DoT's, not including Kaustra, that POP out as being the best. RDM has access to Dia 3 and Bio 3, where no other job does. Not to mention that BLM has more of a corner on DoT's then SCH with their elemental DoT's and access to the other DoT's, except Dia, without the use of a support job.

This is not true. I don't know why you think the helix spells are unreliable but... They're pretty darn amazing when you do the math. A helix spell lasts 2 minutes and 48 seconds, or a total of 18 ticks (Every 9 seconds instead of 3 like Bio). Even if a helix spell does as little as 60 damage on the initial cast, it'll inflict a total of 1080 damage. And that's a ridiculously weak helix. Normally a helix will land for 300-500 damage and do 5,400 to 9,000 damage over it's duration.

We can pretend Bio III does 18 per tick and is fully merited, which lasts 2.5 minutes/150 seconds. This is 50 ticks or 900 damage. This just shows that this spell isn't exactly "considerably powerful", especially at Lv99, which is why BLM/RDM/DRK should have higher tiers.

The Regen spells are also a part of SCH's "DoT" arsenal, although they obviously don't do damage. I think when Okipuit talks about SCH, he's saying that if they added Plague SCH would get it as well. Or only SCH would get it, I dunno. They did mention a while back they were planning on giving SCH an enfeeb spell that'd effect TP, although honestly I hope it's something more unique so it stacks with Plague rather than being Plague itself.

When I look at SCH and RDM, I see SCH as an enhancer/enfeebler of "Endurance" while RDM is/should be an enhancer/enfeebler of "performance". When you think of it like that, it may be easier to come up with ideas better suited for RDM. For example, they could create a spell that reduces the target's DMG rating. Not all mobs carry weapons, but they still have DMG ratings none the less. Likewise, they could give RDM a spell that boosts PT members DMG as well. +10-20 DMG to any weapon would rock.

[Karbuncle]

[*]Stronger version of Dia/Bio:
Red mages already have Dia 3 and Bio 3 from merit points which are considerably powerful version of these spells. [/list]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Okay.

I like that they're considering adding new spells... Can we at least deliver on the premise of them being "Enhancing experts"?

Having literally NO exclusive Enhancing effects capable of being casted on other members does not make them a good enhancer. WHM has more buff Potential than RDM at this point, Its sad the job is getting all this enhancing related stuff when the job just feels like its sitting in limbo atm, no real direction.

As far as the actual quoted part goes, Bio III and DIa III are powerful, But so were T-IV Nukes, and Ancient Magic II... Which were replaced and outdated with the level Cap. I think what is boils down too is SE is scared of RDM becoming what it is in 2005, Which will almost certainly never happen again. they need to let RDM have some room to shine.

Give RDM more, Not everything, But more. Them being "Well rounded" only means its doomed. Does SE not see RDM is probably the least used job in the game for any real content? People still play it for fun and if they have no better jobs, Sure, But in almost every single Optimal or Sub-Optimal set up, RDM has no place in the party or alliance.

They have nothing of value to contribute that another job can't do better.

Honestly, my mad ravings aside... I think RDM is a dead job, and judging by SE's reactions to their spells being 'powerful', Its going to stay a dead job. I mean, Dia III and bio III's effects are pretty good, But their difference from Dia II and Bio II are negligible to the point its not worth their spot not going to a WHM or BLM.

HONK HONK There's Abilities that Plague so We're not adding plague right now!

You know, I Actually agree to this. I feel the same way about

Slow (Weaponskills and JA Inflict this)
Paralyze (Weaponskills and JA Inflict this)
Blind (Weaponskills and JA)
Silence (Weaponskills)
Poison (Weaponskills)
Stun (Job Abilities and Weaponskills)

(P.S, For the JA on Slow/Para/Blind - Despoil) All of these spells should simply be removed at this point sine there's abilities that already inflict them. I think we need to remove Lowing as well, as this inflicts Plague which is counterproductive to SAM's Merit JA doing it.

......

i'm being sarcastic, but, Camate if this is the response they gave you, Did you at least look at them funny and laugh like "Is he kidding lol?" and then they all sat there in silence and go "no." and you just walk out of the room with your head down fearing the RDM rage D:?

*Ahem* rage aside, Thanks for bringing us the update and we appreciate you taking the time to do so, Even if its bad news... Bad news is better than no news.