RDM/RNK make it good

[saevel]

Just saw this ... and ... wtf...

If they increase our Enspell damage drastically it will be main hand only with Enspell 2s. Increasing the potency while halving the duration of enspell 2s would work against the sustained DPS benefits of Enspell 2s. Enspell 2s are easier to balance since it takes time to increase your damage to something better than enspell 1s. SE has plenty to work with to make RDM better but not Over Powered.

Do you have any idea how poorly Enspell II's compare to the original versions? Their laughably useless, they don't proc on any DA / TA's and RDM happens to not only favor DWing for damage but has a spell that gives us straight 20% DA. At the end of the day Enspell II's would need to be ~2.5~3x stronger to be anywhere close to where Enspell I's are at. That's without counting how long it takes to build up their damage and the fact that the damage resets when you reapply them. And that's just to meet enspell 1 level of potency. Due to enspell damage not scaling anywhere near melee / WS damage, enspell 1's need to deal x2 to even be competitive.

SE just needs to drop the whole "only on first hit" bulvine scatology. Get rid of the "building strength" and make them just Enspell x 2.5 potency. There "balanced". RDM wouldn't be near where the WAR / SAM / MNK / DRK / DRG crowd is, but it would at least be an option, especially in scenarios where you know you might need magic and melee damage. Would be a niche use (PDT things) but would still be a strong candidate for those use's.

[ManaKing]

You obviously didn't read the thread or do any research. If you had, you'd know that Rainemard casts T1 enspells that do hundreds of damage. So yes it could be offhanded, and yes we'd be awesome DDs.

Try again troll, I'm the OP and this topic is about RDM/RNF. I was discussing using the supposed new job trait that RNF was getting that would increase enhancing potency by 50%. I wasn't talking about anything else besides a possible increase in enspell potency. I didn't say Rainemard level potency, I was asking for something realistic and pointing out that giving it to us wouldn't be broken.

I then pointed out that if they wanted to fix the existing Enspell 2s and make them viable, that they would already have counterbalancing mechanism in place to avoid them from being abused by sloppy RDMs with KCs. Sorry you're not good at reading and looking for a fight.

Just saw this ... and ... wtf...



Do you have any idea how poorly Enspell II's compare to the original versions? Their laughably useless, they don't proc on any DA / TA's and RDM happens to not only favor DWing for damage but has a spell that gives us straight 20% DA. At the end of the day Enspell II's would need to be ~2.5~3x stronger to be anywhere close to where Enspell I's are at. That's without counting how long it takes to build up their damage and the fact that the damage resets when you reapply them. And that's just to meet enspell 1 level of potency. Due to enspell damage not scaling anywhere near melee / WS damage, enspell 1's need to deal x2 to even be competitive.

SE just needs to drop the whole "only on first hit" bulvine scatology. Get rid of the "building strength" and make them just Enspell x 2.5 potency. There "balanced". RDM wouldn't be near where the WAR / SAM / MNK / DRK / DRG crowd is, but it would at least be an option, especially in scenarios where you know you might need magic and melee damage. Would be a niche use (PDT things) but would still be a strong candidate for those use's.

So no one is good at reading today or staying on topic? The topic is RDM/RNK and what we would like to steal from it.

I read that, 'Rune fencers will possess versatile abilities like one that cuts the duration of the next enhancing magic spell cast on them by half, but in turn amplifies the spell's effect 1.5 times, and another that erects a barrier that reduces magic damage.' and go on to point out that to use that with enspell 2s at all you would have to increase the potency significantly for them to pay off using this kind of a job ability.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW BAD ENSPELL IIs ARE ALREADY. It has to do with looking at what would be necessary to make them work.

We are also talking about a job combination that probably isn't going to include Dual Wield, so please don't tell me about how Dual Wield is great again, because anyone posting in RDM forums on RDM DD should know that RDM/NIN is blatantly the best combination with Enspell 1s. So when I mention Fencer and Enspell 2s. It's because I'm anticipating that we wouldn't be dual wielding and I'm talking about what the possibilities could be to make that viable.

The likelihood of that being possible is very low, but since some of us can enjoy talking about theoretical game mechanics without being stuck to how it is currently, I thought it would be entertaining to discuss it.

Enspell 2s have the extra effect of lowering elemental resistance, which may or may not be relevant to enfeebling after they make the adjustments. I doubt that as well, but if RDM/RNK has the potential to make enspell 2 use semi-viable, I would like to show my interest in that line of reasoning mostly for the sake of us having a 2nd melee sub that is viable outside of /DNC for dynamis procs.

[Protey]

Try again troll, I'm the OP and this topic is about RDM/RNF. I was discussing using the supposed new job trait that RNF was getting that would increase enhancing potency by 50%. I wasn't talking about anything else besides a possible increase in enspell potency. I didn't say Rainemard level potency, I was asking for something realistic and pointing out that giving it to us wouldn't be broken.

I then pointed out that if they wanted to fix the existing Enspell 2s and make them viable, that they would already have counterbalancing mechanism in place to avoid them from being abused by sloppy RDMs with KCs. Sorry you're not good at reading and looking for a fight.

You're the one that isn't good at reading, or you're just an idiot. I had made a comment on Neisan_Quetz's comment on Rainemard's enspells. You then made a reply to my comment on Neisan_Quetz's and erroneously stated that "Enspells 1s doing 45 damage instead of 30 damage" even though Rainemard's is in the hundreds. I'm not trolling, you just don't know how to reply appropriately to someone's comment. You should have said what you had to say in a separate comment rather than posting it right after you quoted me speaking about Rainemard.

[ManaKing]

All I can hear is you continuing on about something that has nothing to do with RDM/RNF, which is the topic.

Stealing a job trait from RNF that increases enhancing potency by 50%, i.e. enspell 1s doing 45 damage, is valid discussion. Talking about Rainemard + KC has nothing to do with the topic other than you could add a KC to the above JA and get all of 360 total damage out of it and be a sloppy DPS, and thus not Rainmarde.

I dismissed your comment pretty much instantly as trolling since it's completely off topic and unrealistic. What good does it do anyone to talk about game mechanics that are obviously broken and would never be implemented? Does anyone really want to read another RDM thread about how we should be the top DD and KC all the things with 100+ damage enspells just like we were Rainemard?

It's been done before. It's boring. It makes RDMs look like unrealistic, stupid fan boys.

[Babekeke]

I believe the whole point of how Rainemard came into this was because someone suggested that by losing dual wield, the enspells would need to be over-poweringly good (like Rainemard's) for rdm/rnf to benefit over /nin. Then the KC zerg came into play, so it was all still on topic of a fashion.

[saevel]

I believe the whole point of how Rainemard came into this was because someone suggested that by losing dual wield, the enspells would need to be over-poweringly good (like Rainemard's) for rdm/rnf to benefit over /nin. Then the KC zerg came into play, so it was all still on topic of a fashion.

This.

Unless RNF provides some form of DWIII by 49 (for a job that specializes in Great Swords...) then it's not going to do more damage then RDM/NIN. I then went forth to explain how much DW increases your damage. Then afterward someone stupidly mentioned that "Enspell II" would be where the damage increase would be, I explained how woefully inadequate they are, in any context. Seeing as RDM/RNF would not have DW, we are needing a 5~6x increase in damage from Enspell II's (150~180 per hit) for it to come anywhere close to a RDM/NIN.

It might have a nifty JA or spell that becomes situational, similar to /PLD and /BLU, but for actual damage it's RDM/NIN or bust right now. Courtesy of barance bros.

[Demon6324236]

Well /DNC+Haste Samba gives same DPS if I'm not mistaken, unless your at absolute haste cap which is unlikely as it was said before. Also Haste Samba would help the rest of your party as well which follows suit with how RDM supports they party. So /DNC would be a viable option as well. TP lost from Samba should somewhat be regained by the TP you are not losing off Haste vs the DW you get with /NIN.

[Neisan_Quetz]

/Dnc will do less damage overall than Rdm/nin even with samba, it's for increasing anyone else in your party's damage if no one else is Dnc or /dnc.

I have no clue what the last sentence is trying to say.

[Demon6324236]

Haste = same TP/hit
DW = Less TP/hit because it counts as lowering your delay
The TP you spend on using Haste Samba can be somewhat recovered by the fact you are not losing TP/hit for having the 5% DW, because instead it is 5% Haste.
Said it when I first woke up so probably didn't sound as good to everyone else as it did to me.

[saevel]

Haste = same TP/hit
DW = Less TP/hit because it counts as lowering your delay
The TP you spend on using Haste Samba can be somewhat recovered by the fact you are not losing TP/hit for having the 5% DW, because instead it is 5% Haste.
Said it when I first woke up so probably didn't sound as good to everyone else as it did to me.

Doesn't work that way.

The TP vs time ratio gets really good past 450 and under 200 delay. This while you do get "less tp" per hit, you get more hits in and thus greater TP gain. /DNC Haste Samba is +5% haste not 10% that DNC gets (merits).

Going from 20DW to 30DW is 14.28% increase in DPS. It would take well over 50% haste before that 5% would be worth more then what DWIII would give you. The absolute biggest kick in the nuts is that your forced to use Enspell II's to get the effect of haste samba on your off hand hit. /DNC is about giving party members more damage at the expense of your own.