Hey look another suggestion Thread, Except this one is awesome.

[Mordanthos]

Allright, everyone is crying about Emnity and how it has a low cap and people use DD for tanking cuz its easier to maintain a capped Threat than stay above everyone else who can cap it in an instant.

So we have two options here.

1.Remove the the cap from the threat table. If Tank is at cap threat and cant generate more threat, skills are wasted, and if some DD comes and explodes a load with a WS on some mobs face for 2-4k dmg, well, they instantly go to cap threat, and at that point, i dont think paladins have much of anything to snap up to capped threat instantly like that. By removing the cap, at least every action can be added to threat on the person with the highest threat, and because of this, the next time someone does that 2-4k dmg WS, perhaps its possible that it wont bring them higher than what the tank has generated, but maybe darn close.

Option 2 is actually a better option in my opinion, and it will allow a lot better strategy when it comes to losing threat, and gaining it back. Instead of removing the threat cap, we have an option to make Provoke do whats its suppose to do, and thats "Goad the enemy into attacking you". How do you ask? Simple!! Make Provoke bring your threat equal to or just slightly greater than the person with the highest threat. If you lose it, you can gain it back even for a moment, but at the same time, your next few actions can push you above quite a bit, lil flash, throw a heal, and BAM, ur back on top, rather than just being frustrated that your provoke didnt do anything. Another good thing about this option is that it cant be very abused, with Provoke on a 30 second cooldown, it can be used at the start of battle, and then be used later if you manage to lose the threat. This doesnt mean that putting you on top of the threat table is going to keep you there. You can very well just lose it instantly again right after you snap threat back with Provoke, and then you WILL have to wait 30 seconds for another chance at securing the agro.

I Vote option 2. But Both Options is the ultimate fix to everyones threat problems. Option two solves quite a bit of the problem.

[Cream_Soda]

I Vote option 2. But Both Options is the ultimate fix to everyones threat problems. Option two solves quite a bit of the problem.

Hate was never the problem, so if you're referring to PLD tanks with your post, it will do nothing to help them.

As long as a DD tank an stay alive and not lose hate to mages, they're going to be better than PLD.

Even if you did get a pld who could hold hate over a DD, there'd be no reason to have him in your group if the DD isn't in danger of dying and can hold hate off of the mages.

[Alderin]

I see one major flaw with option 1 at least.

The flaw is simply - hate reset.

For mobs that have a hate reset TP move, if the hate is uncapped, then it would be extremely difficult for a tank to pull hate back off a mage (especially towards the end of the fight) due to the fact that the mage has built up an extremely high amount of hate from cure-bombs, nukes, etc after a hate reset.

With a hate "cap" as such, it truly doesnt take long to get back on the hate list, however if this hate reset were to push you back to enmity of 0, when the mage has built up a huge amount of enmity, a provoke, flash, cure etc won't be able to get the hate off the mage.

With option 2 - that takes out any skill from a tank's perspective at holding hate. Lately with abyssea it does feel like SE is kind of "giving the game" to us by making it so easy to get exp etc etc, down to the point that there are loads of newer players on lvl 90 jobs that have NFI what they are doing.

If anything, I believe provoke simply needs to have a bigger effect. I wouldn't go as far to say as "put you equal to the top of the hate list." Especially as sometimes in higher-manned groups when there is 2x tanks, often the backup tank uses Provoke simply to be able to pull hate off the mages if the other dies. With option 2, this would pretty much eliminate provoke being useful for this case as you aren't trying to steal the hate off the main tank - just trying to have more or equal hate as the mages.

I personally dont even feel as though hate is an issue. If your a tank and you can't hold hate - your doing something wrong in my opinion. All tanking jobs have a reasonable amount of ways in order to hold hate in this game.

[Mordanthos]

ive had my fair share of someone doing a 4k dmg WS and popping flash, provoke, improved Sentinel through merits, have couple points in emnity from merits, shield bash stun pulls a good amount of threat, and a cure 4, and Invincible for the hell of it. And i didnt get threat back, so if im doing something wrong, then tell me what, cuz i used all the maximum enmity producing moves at my arsenal and i got nowhere

And it usually only takes provoke+Flash+shield bash and u pretty much have threat back, and if u absolutely have to, Sentinel pulls A LOT of threat, and when combined with provoke Flash shield bash and Sentinel and still get no progress on the mob looking at me then something is wrong here, and needs to be addressed. If threat were capped, that surely would have capped me as well, but now, it almost seems there isnt a cap if i didnt get threat back after all that was popped right as i lost it.

[Alderin]

If you do all that, and still couldn't pull hate off him, there isnt much you can do - whether hate is capped or not - it won't fix that issue. However gear & atmas do a lot, so that's the first place I would look if you couldnt get hate off.

Or solve the problem in a simple way - let the DD die.

[RAIST]

If you do all that, and still couldn't pull hate off him, there isnt much you can do - whether hate is capped or not - it won't fix that issue. However gear & atmas do a lot, so that's the first place I would look if you couldnt get hate off.

Or solve the problem in a simple way - let the DD die.

Hehe... more often than not... that's what winds up happening to me. Either the mob dies, or I do. But with all the lenity abbysites and the quick exp. recovery options available now, eating a little dirt now and then isn't such a big deal so long as the party survives.

Raist

[Alderin]

Hehe... more often than not... that's what winds up happening to me. Either the mob dies, or I do. But with all the lenity abbysites and the quick exp. recovery options available now, eating a little dirt now and then isn't such a big deal so long as the party survives.

Raist

Raistlin from Ragnarok? Drk that wears Twilight?

Yep can imagine so :P

If I am tanking and that happens, it's the DD's fault for pulling hate so I let him eat dirt.

Besides, you get 5k EXP off an NM most of the time anyway. The death EXP means nothing these days.

[Runespider]

To fix the tanking classes they simply need to change the levels of hate each action gives, damage should have a very low amount of hate. This would make a DD tanking impossible because curing that DD would make it go kill the mages no matter how much damage they do, this would make tanks needed again.

In a group setup the hate should be tank > mages > DD. If a tank dies a DD should be unable to tank a mob because they simply can't build enough hate to do so, it should just run right over and wipe the mages if the group is unable to keep the tank alive.

[Niklz]

I think the better role of PLDs in the Abyssea era is to be the back up tank to a main dder like NIN, THF or MNK. Keep as much hate as possible on the enemy so when/if the dd-tank dies, the mob goes for the PLD. Usually by that time the PLD would have accumulated enough enmity to keep the monsters attention and can actually hold the mob by him/herself while everyone gets the ball rolling again for the dd-tank.
It's very easy to generate enough enmity on a mnk/war tank by spamming cure iv.

Happened to me on Raja. I was on pld and the mnk tank died, I generated so much enmity over time that I held hate for the rest of the fight, even when the dders were back up and unloading.

[NightDagger]

As a WHM since the PS2 NA release I can say that I have always loved PLD. it is a shame that they are obsulete now though. I have had times even in abyssea that the other healers are afk leaving me to cure 15 people, this creates alot of hate for a whm spamming Cure 5 & 6 (or 4 when timers are down). Once i reached lvl 60+ it was hard for me to pull hate off a PLD some were so good I could use benediction & still be safe. The problem now is the fact that the only jobs that are really good at holding the hate are MNK,DRK,SAM & WAR. Yes a NIN can deal a ton of damage with a WS but the DoT of the others job are far greater. It would be nice to see a fix to this a have NIN & PLD able to do their jobs again w/o having to constantly fight with the DD's. If something was either done to Provoke to help this or just add more base enmity to PLD. They are constantly nerfing/fixing jobs & PLD should be next on the list. I know alot of people that have a LVL 75 PLD and are not ever going to bother taking it to 90 just for the fact of it not having any use anyways.

A solution is needed here to help a Job Class that was once great & is now dead.

NightDagger
Server - Lakshmi