RIP RDM

[Demon6324236]

Well Ill reply as if that post were here to show where its right or wrong in my opinion.

Enfeebling from 2 jobs stacking does not effect the fact that enfeebling in itself is not being fixed for RDM, its being fixed for all jobs, everything will land enfeebling, so RDM will still have little advantage.

I would love 2 RDM enfeebles to stack, you see, that would make RDM special, because then we could stack 2 enfeebles not 1, but instead there will still only be 1 from RDM, and 1 from GEO, so RDM para will be just slightly better than WHM para and people still wont care.

Enspells are not godly, they are a unique form of damage, I can hit flans, slimes, TEs in Dyna, and more with both melee & magic attacks, so if the enemy resists my melee, my magic damage picks up the slack a little. They are not good nor great, however they were ours, now they are being given a way to a job more likely to do more damage, this does hurt RDM as it takes away a feature of the job.

Yes, we do need fixing, no, the other jobs arnt here yet, but they represent something. RDM has been ditched, but we could always look to the future for hope because we had no idea what was on the way. Now we do, 2 new jobs, getting things we have, enfeebling updates that could very well ruin certain spells like the enfeebling resist spells, and help every mage with an enfeebling magic skill land spells all the same, not only us or mainly us. The jobs themselves do not ruin us, and the fact they are not here yet does not effect us, it is what they seem to mean, that SE has chosen to give them things we have asked for, and use the few spots we could still fill.

[Crimson_Slasher]

These jobs grasp at straws for some utilities we have, but neither is a huge threat. And if their future existence means our death, then im sure that spells doom for many other jobs, including bard for example (when was the last time they got a heavy adjustment? Dontcha think they mighta wanted some things geo may offer?)

Lots of jobs have gotten petty or few updates recently, our woes may be many but quite honestly i still use most my jobs a lot, if anything my RNG is my least used job at this point. With months before release, countless updates, and still many things we have over those jobs, yes, theres little threat from them. Also the fact that there are new jobs doesnt mean anything. Had the new jobs been say... "Berserker" and "Sniper" im sure the RNG and DRK and possibly sam/war forums would have been in an uproar! But instead, these are more flavors of non DD professions.

Lets look at the major facts so far, in response to geomancer, we still likely will have mp longevity, actual cure power to some degree, fastcast, effective defensive buffs, great damage mitigation tools and gear, as well as matching their nuke power, and having likely still more potent enfeebles. To get any/all of those they will require subbing us just as sch does, but sch hasnt totally replaced us either. Its just the fearful masses jumping to conclusions that because they are doing one thing, they cant possibly have any thoughts about working on something else ever.

This COULD be the death of rdm, maybe. But as we are still more flexible, even if rdm isnt wanted in EVERY DAMN EVENT like it was at 75, well, tough, not every job was wanted in every event then, ill take being accepted as a space filler or used for select events. Its been said, who doesnt have atleast 2 99 jobs these days?

Main problem here is people blowing things way the hell out of proportion! "Abyssea is over!" "Voidwatch is over!" "Dynamis is dead!" Well hate to break it to you all, but just because its not the new hot button making everyone wet their pants doesnt mean people arent still flocking to these and older events! Sorry if i dont shead a tear and feel left out of legion as rdm, but really if GEO or RNF are any more popular for these older, still vastly popular events, then i suppose we have a problem, but they already said they are designed to not be involved with them so i dont see a problem.

So SE, go ahead and make an event that Caters to GEO and RNF, because we can tell now, unless these jobs are truely, truely, truely broken, there is little chance it will put us out of a job. Dnc didnt, blu didnt, sch didnt. Hell whm only just recently took their job back.

There is a gigantic difference between "reading between the lines" and "Jumping the gun" or "Flying off the handle" or just plain over-reacting to this. Maybe the japanese players have capped all jobs to 99 and are demanding something else to level for all we know.

I am not worried, threatened, or upset at this news and look forward to the new jobs, zones, and possibility of these being useful for rdm/rng or rdm/geo play.

[Demon6324236]

These jobs grasp at straws for some utilities we have, but neither is a huge threat. And if their future existence means our death, then im sure that spells doom for many other jobs, including bard for example (when was the last time they got a heavy adjustment? Dontcha think they mighta wanted some things geo may offer?)

BRD is useful in current events and invited as such, RDM is at best a filler, and SCH normally takes its place instead because it is a better mage.

Lots of jobs have gotten petty or few updates recently, our woes may be many but quite honestly i still use most my jobs a lot, if anything my RNG is my least used job at this point. With months before release, countless updates, and still many things we have over those jobs, yes, theres little threat from them. Also the fact that there are new jobs doesnt mean anything. Had the new jobs been say... "Berserker" and "Sniper" im sure the RNG and DRK and possibly sam/war forums would have been in an uproar! But instead, these are more flavors of non DD professions.

Outside of procs I don't see people all to picky about DDs, normally it seems to come down to what your better as and what you have geared best, Berserker wouldn't really take DRK, SAM, or WAR down much unless everyone had it geared better and knew how to play the job well enough for it to be more effective. Mages are not the same, we all have many advantages and fields we are better in, except RDM, we get enhancing that WHM does, enfeebling that BLM & WHM or a SCH/RDM can do, we get worse healing than SCH, worse nukes than SCH or BLM, no native divine, and a single set of tiered dark spells.

Lets look at the major facts so far, in response to geomancer, we still likely will have mp longevity, actual cure power to some degree, fastcast, effective defensive buffs, great damage mitigation tools and gear, as well as matching their nuke power, and having likely still more potent enfeebles. To get any/all of those they will require subbing us just as sch does, but sch hasnt totally replaced us either. Its just the fearful masses jumping to conclusions that because they are doing one thing, they cant possibly have any thoughts about working on something else ever.

MP longevity hasn't been needed for some time, unless it comes back, this matters nothing.
Cures, the WHMs do cures, when was the last time RDM was an excepted healer? You take SCH before RDM in that case.
Fast Cast is cool, except SCH has little reason to not /RDM, and both WHM & BLM have either merits for -cast time of their respective types of spells, or gear for the same thing while RDM's main -cast time gear is~ enfeebling magic, which takes half a second to cast anyways!
Damage should not be taken if your a mage, if you are taking damage, its probably a NM, NMs, do enough Phalanx matters very, very, little, and thats our real protection you speak of I take it in defense, gear wise, many jobs can easily stack PDT gear.
Subbing RDM is required for as long as we don't see its gear, if it has AF sets that everything else does (which is how they made it sound) it will likely have -cast time gear built into its EmpAF set to cater with mage tradition in this case.
SCH has actually killed RDM mage wise. MP longevity=Sublimation, Magic acc gear+Strat=Enfeebling magic skill being high, higher black magic tiers, strats to boost effects of spells by 1.5 times or more. they even get heightened skill levels when in the correct arts so that gimps can use it as well/almost as well as people who actually skilled them up. I don't feel the need to go on, SCH/RDM, does beat RDM in basically every way when it comes to pure maging.
It has nothing to do with me being part of the "fearful masses" I look at the past, I look at the future, and I look at what SE is telling me, and when I add this all together it translates into "We looked at many suggestions on how to fix or help some jobs, however, rather than fixing or assisting these jobs, we thought it would be best to make 2 new jobs with these ideas, helping reason to buy our new expansion, return to the game, or forgive us for our past mistakes."

This COULD be the death of rdm, maybe. But as we are still more flexible, even if rdm isnt wanted in EVERY DAMN EVENT like it was at 75, well, tough, not every job was wanted in every event then, ill take being accepted as a space filler or used for select events. Its been said, who doesnt have atleast 2 99 jobs these days?

When you cant go into an event and know what your actually going to be doing in it, RDM's flexibility will matter, when you need a healer, you will bring a healer, when you need a nuker, you will bring a nuker, there is almost never a reason to bring someone who can do both but worse, especially RDM over SCH when SCH does both better anyways.
I don't mind not being wanted in EVERY event, I don't like being wanted in NO event as more than anything but a filler! Having more than a single job at 99 matters nothing, having more than a single job geared to the teeth, means nothing, no job should be left behind without a reason as RDM has.

Main problem here is people blowing things way the hell out of proportion! "Abyssea is over!" "Voidwatch is over!" "Dynamis is dead!" Well hate to break it to you all, but just because its not the new hot button making everyone wet their pants doesnt mean people arent still flocking to these and older events! Sorry if i dont shead a tear and feel left out of legion as rdm, but really if GEO or RNF are any more popular for these older, still vastly popular events, then i suppose we have a problem, but they already said they are designed to not be involved with them so i dont see a problem.

Again, if I was useful in these events I would be happy, lets look at them vs other jobs.
Abyssea:This world is ruled by procs, RDM has few blue procs, few red procs (dagger being the only ones I think) and only 2 of any magic proc at most unless you count a subjob. WAR has most red procs, NIN can cover whatever WAR cant, and NIN/WAR can even cover the same amount as a WAR can. MNK has 14/15 blue procs for a certain time frame, the person healing him probably has the last 1 of those 15 as well. WHM, BLM/BRD, BLU, THF/NIN, this covers all magic procs in a seal party, and treasure hunter. RDM is shown to be in none of these setups for procs, and has minimal support for any of these.
Voidwatch:RDM again, has few procs, enfeebling procs unique to the job have just been removed. Has minimal DD capabilities, has minimal need in general. BRD COR DDs BLMx2~3 BLUx1~2 NIN WHMx2, this is the gist of a VW party setup, RDM gets to be a filler for the BLM who just doesn't want to come, thats where it falls into this lineup most the time at best.
Dynamis:RDM has no Treasure Hunter and has lower damage output than other jobs, the end. THF can solo Dyna, BST can dominate Dyna, PUP can do Dyna WS mobs with their puppet procing for them, DNC can do Dyna with a locked subjob, RDM can... do subpar? Are you talking about other than farming? Ok, SMN, BRD, DDs, this is ADL setup, and thats about all there is to Dyna people do, so yeah, no use here either.

So SE, go ahead and make an event that Caters to GEO and RNF, because we can tell now, unless these jobs are truely, truely, truely broken, there is little chance it will put us out of a job. Dnc didnt, blu didnt, sch didnt. Hell whm only just recently took their job back.

DNC put in a new soloer, not nearly as effective as RDM however, so no, it didn't. BLU, does more damage with swords, does more damage with magic that casts as fast as we cast Dia, and has healing spells on par with our healing spells, they fall short in MP longevity, this job only losses in a single place, MP! SCH, I explained above, not saying it again...

There is a gigantic difference between "reading between the lines" and "Jumping the gun" or "Flying off the handle" or just plain over-reacting to this. Maybe the japanese players have capped all jobs to 99 and are demanding something else to level for all we know.

Yes there are differences, and funny enough, I know this, and do none of these except perhaps jump the gun. I sat down, calm minded, went over the info I was given, and got angry because after adding the facts together I was given, I saw that this was bad for my job. If Japanese players leveled all jobs to 99, that just means, they did what alot of people already have on this game. I wouldn't mind having new jobs, I just wish they would fix the problems they have with the current ones 1st, and namely not take away ideas that could help to fix these problems.

I am not worried, threatened, or upset at this news and look forward to the new jobs, zones, and possibility of these being useful for rdm/rng or rdm/geo play.

I am worried, new jobs are nice, but where do they fall? I see 2 more jobs to add to the other 19 that I am currently up against when an event comes out and it is chosen who is worth having, RDM is currently not very worth having, having a 1/22 chance makes me feel worse than my current 1/20 chance.

I like the idea of going to these new zones but I am faced with many problems, I'm RDM, group based things don't work for me well right now, unless this changes I will be alone out there. These new items to remove things in the way, build outposts and whatnot, will this only happen once? If so, partys will make this boring to me, because I will never really experience this. If it has to be done again, will it take up inventory space? My RDM already has alot of gear, I will be unable to really hold much of anything outside of my gear and a few items for this content if I'm alone.

I'm not upset about the news, I'm happy about it because it means this game will not die soon, most people don't make expansions to kill off a game shortly after, not to mention new interface and whatnot for the PC. And I'm excited to try new combos with the new jobs as subjobs, it will bring something interesting. But as much as I like this all, I still see problems with it as well. RDM dying or not is a past matter, the job is currently in a very poor state, this simply shows they have been putting alot of time into these new jobs, and ideas that were given for RDM even, it is driving people to lose hope RDM might change.



I'm sorry for such a long post, I'm done speaking my opinion.

[SpankWustler]

I've finally thought of the right disturbing metaphor for this situation!

Let's say a couple starts with one child. They neither love nor hate this child, they mostly ignore him and leave him to starve in a large cardboard box which slowly fills with his own filth.

Later, the couple has another child. Just a baby, right now. Another boy. Right now, they're feeding that child and showing it love. They must have loved the first child once.

Stuff happens and the first child dies of dehydration.

The second child has nothing to do with the first child's death. The first child's neglect is not a result of the second child's care. However, seeing that tiny thing all wrapped up and happy definitely hurts the first child on an emotional level. As the first child collapses into a cold and watery puddle of his own feces, I wouldn't be surprised if he gurgles, "I hope I get to haunt that little monster."

On a purely logical level, I think a lot of people know that all three jobs could live happily together like three hermaphroditic polygamists in kinda-gross union if all three jobs end up actually filling needed roles and being fun to play and not sucking horribly and stuff.

On a more emotional level, that might not matter. Stuff sucks for Red Mage right now and both new jobs seem vaguely similar to Red Mage on paper. That makes the suck, well, feel suckier. Basic suckology!

[hiko]

Sadly it's not really relevant to the concern amongst RDMs (and former-RDMs):

--The comment was that the sphere/aura enfeebles would take their own "spot" was to answer the question of "what if it's a Paralyze proc and there's a paralyze aura in effect." As of right now, enfeebles are only relevant for procs, and WHM and BLM can both land them for proc, a RDM is not needed. RDM gains nothing from this statement.

--Slow I and II, Paralyze I and II and so forth do not stalk, so this comment is fluff at best. (As an aside, I frequently asked WARs to tomahawk or DRGs to Angon when I used Dia II/III because they did stack. But that's neither here nor there).

-if enfeebling monster is useless geo doesn't take anything from RDM (you dont need rdm either geo exist or not)
-slow I & II doesnt stack with each other but thet stack with elegy, RDM debuff will stack with geo debuff (SE said they don't take same slot)
-we don't know how many aura a geo can put. RDM can stick all their debuff (minus element overwrite)

--The issue is that enspells were unique to RDM, not that they were game-breaking. The fact that only RDM had access to them made them a defining trait of RDM. You might want to figure out what "defining" means.

enspells have never been unique to RDM
-http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Thunder (not worth using but it exist)
-sch/rdm can aoe enspells

--Increasing the level cap took the uniqueness of Refresh and Convert away from RDM. SCH took away the usefulness of RDM capped Enhancing. while also blocking Refresh and Haste from working with Accession. Despite all of these, players continued to hope that with upcoming enhancements to the Merit Categories and spell effects that RDM might get a saving grace. /cut/.

Good or bad, effective or useless, prior to the level-cap increase, RDM was viable for, amongst other things, Enfeebliing (Dia III, Dispel), Enhancing (Refresh, anyone?) and Endurance (Refresh+Convert). This somewhat gave RDM relevance despite not having the higher tier magic spells of either White or Black schools of Magic.

--The melee aspect of RDM was already hindered due to the undeserved fear that everyone would become Avesta, and has been untouched since the dawn of time.

--The level cap, and subsequent enhancements made for WHM and BLM increased the gap between the "pure mages" and hybrid class, and by making Convert and Refresh sub-able reduced RDM to a "I wear it for looks" Chapeau class.

not related with new jobs being added

Instead, the recommendations for enhancements to RDM were included in the development of two additional jobs

your recomandation are so balanced that SE had to create TWO jobs to implement them.

hybrid can' be strong in every domain, you want them to be strong in every domain, it won't happen deal with it

When a team of developers think think that creating two new jobs from "scratch" (read as: copy from existing jobs with some tweaks) is more important than fixing an irrelevent job, you will understand the genuine disappointment/sense of betrayal being echoed by the forsaken RDM masses.

yes because GEO and RUF will be available tomorrow!
hmm? no! they will be in 6-18 month with several job adjustment coming before

Well Ill reply as if that post were here to show where its right or wrong in my opinion.

Enfeebling from 2 jobs stacking does not effect the fact that enfeebling in itself is not being fixed for RDM, its being fixed for all jobs, everything will land enfeebling, so RDM will still have little advantage.

Hey everyone,

I have some interesting news from development regarding enfeebling magic and resistance adjustments:
A new systemfor resistance will be implemented. If we do not adjust this first, even if we were to add new or stronger enfeebling spells, the results would be minimal against enemies with high resistance. By adjusting the current resistance system, existing enfeebling spells will become more efficient. Moving forward, our next set of current and/or new spell plans will be based on the results of the resistance system revamp.

ITT: a new system of resistance = everybody will land enfeebling @ full potency

[Demon6324236]

-slow I & II doesnt stack with each other but thet stack with elegy, RDM debuff will stack with geo debuff (SE said they don't take same slot)

What makes RDM more desired than a SCH/RDM when casting slow? We can both only land 1 spell, RDM might be a little more potent but this makes little difference, chances of sticking are about the same. When presented this choice, it might not seem like a big enough difference to take RDM for the small bit of enfeebling. Now, imagine Slow I & II could stack, this would make RDM worth looking into, a single job stacking these would be amazing, but this isn't what were talking about. SE said, GEO can stack enfeebling, with other enfeebling, this means, RDM, still is just as useful as a SCH/RDM when it comes to slow, or anything like slow that it can duplicate.

The fact GEO enfeebling can stack with ours is cool and all but what does this mean for RDM? Nothing at all, RDM enfeebles do not stack on 1 another, if you could stack Slow I & II, RDM would be brought to do it, but sadly, this isn't the case I'm afraid.

ITT: a new system of resistance = everybody will land enfeebling

Let me explain yet again, I am going by the info, I heard, when I watched the Vanafest stream. They said enfeebling magic was being looked into and they were changing it, it was even being looked into that they would completely remove the ability to resist it, this makes no difference in the end anyways. Again I will say this as well, if enfeebling is easier to stick as one job, chances are, every job with enfeebling skill, will have an easier time. Not helping only RDM with this, but everything that is keeping RDM from actually joining events to cast enfeebling as well.

To help RDM they would have to make an update that only, or mainly, effects RDM, this is why I have said before they need to do what they did with Healing Magic, and make skill a very large factor in how this works, if enfeebling skill played a large role, then the job with the highest skill in it, would play an equally large role when using it.

[hiko]

if they remove resist enffebling skill become useless
they wont make a skill totaly useless

=> add enfeebling skill into potency formula

I know SE used to do some stupid stuff but that a very easy/efficient way to make skill usefull

[Demon6324236]

if they remove resist enffebling skill become useless
they wont make a skill totaly useless

=> add enfeebling skill into potency formula

I know SE used to do some stupid stuff but that a very easy/efficient way to make skill usefull

I said only what I heard them say, I agree its stupid, and I know how easy it is to fix it. As for "used to do some stupid stuff" this makes it sound like they don't do stupid things anymore... Yeah~... Either way, the changes they make to enfeebling magic has little chance that it will change things in a way that mainly or only benefits RDM.

[Doombringer]

enspells have never been unique to RDM
-sch/rdm can aoe enspells

to be fair, that pissed us all off THEN to... or me anyway <.<. rolling thunder is terrible enough to stay under the radar.

I've finally thought of the right disturbing metaphor for this situation!

Let's say a couple starts with one child. They neither love nor hate this child, they mostly ignore him and leave him to starve in a large cardboard box which slowly fills with his own filth.

Later, the couple has another child. Just a baby, right now. Another boy. Right now, they're feeding that child and showing it love. They must have loved the first child once.

Stuff happens and the first child dies of dehydration.

The second child has nothing to do with the first child's death. The first child's neglect is not a result of the second child's care. However, seeing that tiny thing all wrapped up and happy definitely hurts the first child on an emotional level. As the first child collapses into a cold and watery puddle of his own feces, I wouldn't be surprised if he gurgles, "I hope I get to haunt that little monster."

On a purely logical level, I think a lot of people know that all three jobs could live happily together like three hermaphroditic polygamists in kinda-gross union if all three jobs end up actually filling needed roles and being fun to play and not sucking horribly and stuff.

On a more emotional level, that might not matter. Stuff sucks for Red Mage right now and both new jobs seem vaguely similar to Red Mage on paper. That makes the suck, well, feel suckier. Basic suckology!

well this is practically science, so far be it for me to digress... but as a melee rdm i feel like i was actually allowed to GROW UP in the shitbox, subsisting on buckets of raw fish heads for years. until mommy and daddy finally look upon me, only to kick me in my recently dropped balls >.>



all that being said, i'm actually curious to play rune fencer... except that it's a tank.

[SpankWustler]

well this is practically science, so far be it for me to digress... but as a melee rdm i feel like i was actually allowed to GROW UP in the shitbox, subsisting on buckets of raw fish heads for years. until mommy and daddy finally look upon me, only to kick me in my recently dropped balls >.>

This would explain why Temper was okay enough for what it was meant to do, compared to significantly more horrid stuff like Scarlet Delirium or Run Wild added during the same period.

Temper was added to give hope to Red Mages who want to hit things with their things. To give them hope because it is impossible to take away something you have never given.

Or, to keep with the really gross metaphors, it was added because even the Development Bros know nothing hurts more than a critical hit to the protuberance.