RIP RDM

[Demon6324236]

Because people don't specifically ask for it, its dead?

[saevel]

Because people don't specifically ask for it, its dead?

It's dead because there is nothing RDM can do that another job can't do better. Healing is for WHM, magic damage is for BLM, meleeing is for the pure DD's, White + Black magic is for SCH, hybrid DD / healing / crowd control is for BLU. All of them above can "enfeebled". Buffing / Party Support is for WHM, BRD, COR, SMN, and SCH, all can do everything RDM provides are more. Hell BLU/RDM can do everything RDM can do, while also doing AoE Haste most of the time (ST haste in between).

Seriously, no reason to use RDM ~ever~. It's a direct result of SE totally ignoring the job for years and giving it weak gear options combined with weak magic / JA / JTs.

[ManaKing]

No offense but she's right. It's a dead job. I can't even remember the last time I was asked to gear up my RDM. For anything.

Ever.

Because a job is not asked for, it is useless. Excellent we have some more geniuses in here tell us the definition of what it means for a job to be dead in video game terms.

It can still be played and be useful, but hey because no one shouts for one, they must be non existent.

[Demon6324236]

See it as you will then, I don't see the job as dead, I see it as underused, because people don't understand how to use the job anymore to be effective. It is not more effective in any of those fields than the job that is supposed to be better in those fields, because its not meant to be. It can still do what it needs to, the only thing that needs improved is the ability to use Brave/Faith to focus our power on what we are doing the most of at the time, as well as fixing our shit merits and fixing our spell list by adding new tiers and buffing old spells which were broken with the cap going up, not to mention the spells like En-IIs that were broken to start. Past that, job is fine, which is why I still play it and recently have almost been playing RDM exclusively on Demonjustin.

[SpankWustler]

Arguing that a job is valid because it "is useful" is just as extreme as arguing that the job is dead. Any game in FFXI can be useful, but there are 20 of the darn things, so it's a matter of which is more useful or most useful.

Even though combining Chainspell with Stun might come back in vogue once Embrava and Perfect Defense are adjusted, there's the counter-argument that two Scholars would have low enough Stun recasts for the entire event rather than a 120 (140) second burst of TONS'O'STUNS. Or, depending on the monster, the new Paladin or Thief SP might be a better solution by then.

Red Mage might be really great for that one thing, eventually, but it looks from a distance like the job has competition for a niche it doesn't even have yet.

Things like "useful" and "dead" are very strong terms and very subjective. "Fun" is even more subjective. Objectively, Red Mage is one of the least useful jobs in FFXI currently and it needs tools it does not have.

[Ordoric]

what do you rdm elites want?

[Llana_Virren]

See it as you will then, I don't see the job as dead, I see it as underused, because people don't understand how to use the job anymore to be effective. It is not more effective in any of those fields than the job that is supposed to be better in those fields, because its not meant to be. It can still do what it needs to, the only thing that needs improved is the ability to use Brave/Faith to focus our power on what we are doing the most of at the time, as well as fixing our shit merits and fixing our spell list by adding new tiers and buffing old spells which were broken with the cap going up, not to mention the spells like En-IIs that were broken to start. Past that, job is fine, which is why I still play it and recently have almost been playing RDM exclusively on Demonjustin.

The problem is not that RDM isn't "as good" as the non-hybrids. RDMs aren't supposed to heal better than WHMs or deal more damage than BLMs or melee better than WARs. But that isn't the problem.

At 75-cap RDM was better than WHM because it could suspend its MP pool long enough to maintain haste and refresh cycles without losing the ability to also Cure. Once WHM regained its proper role as a master healer, RDM had no other "niche" to fill; for procs, a BLM/rdm can cover more procs than RDM/anything; for any high-intensity battlefield WHMs and SCHs could provide more survivability and enhancements than RDM.

So, the problem is really that RDM never had a niche to fill. Up until the 75-cap was raised, RDM was simply a glorified Pink Mage; used in place of WHMs due to MP management tools. Yes you could enfeeble things, but we're not in 2006 any more. The events that we do now do not need enfeebles, and if they do, BLM/rdm or WHM/rdm or SCH/rdm can still handle it.

RDM has nothing that it can offer to the game. To say that it is "fun" is OK, but just because something is fun for you does not mean it is relevant to the game. I'm sure some people have fun playing PUP, but you're rarely, if ever going to find someone going PUP to end-game events.

[Calatilla]

Yes you could enfeeble things, but we're not in 2006 any more. The events that we do now do not need enfeebles, and if they do, BLM/rdm or WHM/rdm or SCH/rdm can still handle it.

Here-in lies the problem, enfeebles need to be made relevant and tiered by skill, adjust enfeebles like they did with cures. Do that and RDM becomes relevant again.

[ManaKing]

RDM just needs some buffs to any one of the many places it has become deficient since 75 to be more attractive and useful.

The list of what we want has already been made probably 50 or 60 times on the NA forums. Honestly, it's just negligence at this point that RDM is still in such obvious, bad shape.

Just because it's not anywhere near the strong side of the job list doesn't mean it's dead. It still has uses. It still has tactics to be used. PD/Embrava are going to be less effective. Which means CCS is going to be more useful for extremely dangerous situations. Dia III is still 5% more defense down than Dia II. If you have 33% less time in PD immunity, you better hope that you are maximizing your Zerg.

[saevel]

Even though combining Chainspell with Stun might come back in vogue once Embrava and Perfect Defense are adjusted, there's the counter-argument that two Scholars would have low enough Stun recasts for the entire event rather than a 120 (140) second burst of TONS'O'STUNS.

CSS is good and dead for 90% of things you need them on. RDM only has an E in dark magic skill and due to the way skill caps raised after level 76 RDM's dark magic is so low that even stun's magic acc bonus isn't enough. SCH's on the other hand have B+ in dark magic with DA up, that is before their gear and staff options.

RDM @99 = 300 base Dark Magic Skill
SCH @99 = 404 base Dark Magic Skill

A level 110 monster had 450 base magic evasion, and gains another 7 for each level. This doesn't take into account any natural resistance to thunder nor any resistance (natural or accumulative) to the stun status effect.

So yeah two x SCH/BLM's can stun lock pretty much anything.