Single-Handed Damage Adjustments

[Snoctopus]

Currently, two-handed jobs have an unfair advantage over one-handed jobs in how their damage is calculated. It is so far skewed that dual-wielders have no place in current end-game content outside of procs. Are there any plans to fix the damage calculations to put the jobs back on even footing, or is it your intention for every player to have to level WAR, DRK, or SAM if they wanted to be considered for a DD role?

[Monchat]

what are you talkign about ? WS damage? it has and ill alwasy be like this. 2Handed DD will always do good WS damage and poor melee damage, and 1 handed DD do the converse. A sam excells at WS damage for exemple but its meelee damage completely blows. For a monk its the converse, a mnk does 2x more melee than ws. Its always been balanced like this and despite that 2hander have rarely been able to keeep up with a mnk on stuff a mnk can dd. Exception ws dualwielding war/nin with ridill back in the day.

[saevel]

That used to be the way, not much anymore. The attack formula is skewed to favor 2H's more, especially in high buff scenarios which is what everything in this game has turned into. Gear that's been introduced since Abysesa has also heavily favored the 2H group (and BST to an extent). Once you combine those it becomes a case of 1H's never approaching the total damage output possible by most 2H's. Finally the JA / JT distribution favors WAR / SAM / DRK for damage with BST and DRG getting some from their subs.

It's a result of everything being stacked on top of each other. During abyssea SE should of handed out native DW3 to all jobs that wield 1H weapons and high forms of CAB.

[Snoctopus]

what are you talkign about ? WS damage? it has and ill alwasy be like this. 2Handed DD will always do good WS damage and poor melee damage, and 1 handed DD do the converse. A sam excells at WS damage for exemple but its meelee damage completely blows. For a monk its the converse, a mnk does 2x more melee than ws. Its always been balanced like this and despite that 2hander have rarely been able to keeep up with a mnk on stuff a mnk can dd. Exception ws dualwielding war/nin with ridill back in the day.

Within any 20-30 second span, melee DPS damage assuming optimum TP and WS gear should be comparable within 2-5% between jobs. Melee job preference should be based on personal taste and appeal, not upon outrageously poor "balance". Dual-wielders with empyreans/relics should never fall short in DPS compared to 2H jobs that didn't put in the effort to obtain similar weapons, I.E. fauxkonvasara WAR should never beat out Twashtar DNC/Kannagi NIN/Mandau THF in damage.

A player's effort/time invested in their character should be the deciding factor in their damage output, not amateurish formulas compiled by poor/biased programmers. Make the game better for the majority of players, not the jobs the developer's preference favors.

[Llana_Virren]

A player's effort/time invested in their character should be the deciding factor in their damage output.

A lot of items exist for the sole purpose of e-peen stroking.

Although I agree that any item that portends to be a major enhancement on the character's performance should have the amount of "awesomeness", there is a such thing as diminishing returns. If each time something new came along, which had to be better than what came before it, we'd find ourselves with DMG999 daggers, eventually.

Not every new piece of gear and equipment will automatically be better than the last; and not every item that is upgraded 20x times will be 20x better than other item that hasn't.

If you wanted to be a realist, you'd could say that a dagger, no matter how upgraded, shouldn't deal more dmg than a 2-handed axe, but that's neither here nor there.

Point: 2H users were the laughing stock of FFXI for many a year, and the pendulum finally swing over to the other side. When 2H users have capped ACC, there is a clear advantage, however the time between 2 swings of a 2H weapon, a single-weapon wielder would have swung nearly 4 times; about 2-3 for dualwielders, roughly, not accounting for DA/TA/QA procs. When a 2H misses, however, it is much more costly to dmg and TP gain than it is for a DW or 1H weapon(s).

Also, I have an issue with Empyrean weapons, because compared to a lot of weapons they suck. A lot. This is probably why you mentioned a Mandau THF. Mandau is a Relic, Twashtar is Empyrean. By your logic, a Twashter should be > Mandau. After all, players who made the effort in the newer weapon should be rewarded more than a player who rides a 7-year old piece of equipment, right?

Alas, if the Twashtar was better than Mandau, you'd have all sorts of complaints about how Mandau took so much time to acquire just to become obsolete. You can't please everyone, no matter how hard you try.

[Snoctopus]

A lot of items exist for the sole purpose of e-peen stroking.

Although I agree that any item that portends to be a major enhancement on the character's performance should have the amount of "awesomeness", there is a such thing as diminishing returns. If each time something new came along, which had to be better than what came before it, we'd find ourselves with DMG999 daggers, eventually.

Not every new piece of gear and equipment will automatically be better than the last; and not every item that is upgraded 20x times will be 20x better than other item that hasn't.

If you wanted to be a realist, you'd could say that a dagger, no matter how upgraded, shouldn't deal more dmg than a 2-handed axe, but that's neither here nor there.

Point: 2H users were the laughing stock of FFXI for many a year, and the pendulum finally swing over to the other side. When 2H users have capped ACC, there is a clear advantage, however the time between 2 swings of a 2H weapon, a single-weapon wielder would have swung nearly 4 times; about 2-3 for dualwielders, roughly, not accounting for DA/TA/QA procs. When a 2H misses, however, it is much more costly to dmg and TP gain than it is for a DW or 1H weapon(s).

Also, I have an issue with Empyrean weapons, because compared to a lot of weapons they suck. A lot. This is probably why you mentioned a Mandau THF. Mandau is a Relic, Twashtar is Empyrean. By your logic, a Twashter should be > Mandau. After all, players who made the effort in the newer weapon should be rewarded more than a player who rides a 7-year old piece of equipment, right?

Alas, if the Twashtar was better than Mandau, you'd have all sorts of complaints about how Mandau took so much time to acquire just to become obsolete. You can't please everyone, no matter how hard you try.

The pendulum has been on the side of 2H weapons since August 2007, and has never swung back. Regarding your comments of Twashtar vs. Mandau, old vs. new, as well as my own, this is moot, and was merely meant as an example, as I have both the "gimp" (empyrean; twashtar) weapon and the "optimum" (relic, mandau) weapon on my job of choice. The issue is that with the game's current state, even with an optimum weapon such as Mandau, a THF cannot keep up with a WAR, DRK, or SAM in the current content due to the attrociously poor "balance" that the game currently has. Buffing 1H weapon holders is a plus across the board as it increases the amount of viable party members available for the current and SEVERELY improperly tuned content that the game has to offer:VW. Abj. augementing, nyzul.

[Gokku]

Currently, two-handed jobs have an unfair advantage over one-handed jobs in how their damage is calculated. It is so far skewed that dual-wielders have no place in current end-game content outside of procs. Are there any plans to fix the damage calculations to put the jobs back on even footing, or is it your intention for every player to have to level WAR, DRK, or SAM if they wanted to be considered for a DD role?

ill prase it this way , i have a barely merited uncapped dagger skill thf with a VERY solid exern , and the 2nd best tp set you can get for thf. it took me 2 months to gear thf as well as it is i have 0 empys and 0 magian weapons and im able to outparse and or hold my own with 2handed DD's in VW, and trust me im a piss poor thf.

Now you put me on Monk * none 2 handed DD and suffers from the same penaltys as 1handed users* and i straight wreck almost everything any anything im fighting.

you issues seem to stem from either your
A. lack of gear
B. lack of a reputation
C. lack of skill

yes 1 handed DD's CAN pump out solid DPS , but to do so you will have to work a hellva lot harder for it then a 2handed dps job. so if your not making the cut and getting frustrated look no further then yourself. Will you ever come close on thf to a well geared / skilled ukon war? no... but you can easily out dps your average cookie cutter af3+2 ukon war. God knows the last prov parse my static ran i out dps'd 2 ukon wars by 6% on my none ukon upheaval war.

to put it into perspective , cookie cutter war / drk / sam dps is somewhere between my thf and a mandau 95-99 / str dagger , thf with str food on and a PERFECT tp set, and a very strong WS set.

Resolution is heavely reliant on beating its atk pen. Ukkos is reliant on crits and has been nerfed once already , and fudo/shoha stops being omfgawesomesauce very very quickly.

[Llana_Virren]

The pendulum has been on the side of 2H weapons since August 2007, and has never swung back. Regarding your comments of Twashtar vs. Mandau, old vs. new, as well as my own, this is moot, and was merely meant as an example, as I have both the "gimp" (empyrean; twashtar) weapon and the "optimum" (relic, mandau) weapon on my job of choice. The issue is that with the game's current state, even with an optimum weapon such as Mandau, a THF cannot keep up with a WAR, DRK, or SAM in the current content due to the attrociously poor "balance" that the game currently has. Buffing 1H weapon holders is a plus across the board as it increases the amount of viable party members available for the current and SEVERELY improperly tuned content that the game has to offer:VW. Abj. augementing, nyzul.

Except that it doesn't work that way: for 1) a dagger should never actually deal more damage than a very large axe; but more realistically because 2) the more damage players deal, the more HP/insta-death moves our friends in the Development Team give to the NMs we like to fight.

This of course also deals with job roles: a THF was never designed to be a front-line DD, but rather a mid-line support role. THFs should not be keeping up to par with WAR, DRK or SAM. As for the argument between a 1H WAR and 2H WAR I would agree, but believing that a THF should be on-par with a DRK or SAM is like having a RDM argue that he can't deal more damage than a DRK or SAM.

I mean, afterall, a RDM/dw can Dual Wield Excalibur and Mandau.... so nothing should be able to touch that!

[Demon6324236]

Except that it doesn't work that way: for 1) a dagger should never actually deal more damage than a very large axe; but more realistically because 2) the more damage players deal, the more HP/insta-death moves our friends in the Development Team give to the NMs we like to fight.

This of course also deals with job roles: a THF was never designed to be a front-line DD, but rather a mid-line support role. THFs should not be keeping up to par with WAR, DRK or SAM. As for the argument between a 1H WAR and 2H WAR I would agree, but believing that a THF should be on-par with a DRK or SAM is like having a RDM argue that he can't deal more damage than a DRK or SAM.

I mean, afterall, a RDM/dw can Dual Wield Excalibur and Mandau.... so nothing should be able to touch that!

I wont say I think my RDM should do more, or the same, but I should be somewhere on the board, RDM has been left out of melee in any content and everything RDM gets magic wise is better as a SCH/RDM... Melee is what keeps RDM & SCH apart, so a melee upgrade for 1handers such as RDM would be most welcome by the RDM community I'm sure! ^_^;

[Snoctopus]

i have 0 empys and 0 magian weapons and im able to outparse and or hold my own with 2handed DD's in VW, and trust me im a piss poor thf.

you issues seem to stem from either your
A. lack of gear
B. lack of a reputation
C. lack of skill

Cute, except your first statement is a gross exaggeration at best and more realistically a flat-out lie.

@LLana;

"Realism" arguments have no place in a video game that's based on a fantasy setting. THF's initial design no longer applies to FFXI, and SE should fix the job, rather than ignoring it. SAM was intended to be a tank, so even within your own argument the logic falls apart.