NEO Nyzul 2.0

**MarkovChain** · 06-02-2012 04:26 PM

Except that if you are getting melee resistant crap and you are relying on SCH to kill them you are already losing the run because because of the time constraints ? Any time you are getting an unusal floor that implies losing time compared to the avergae floor you lose. A single order lamp means loss except if you cheat. Not sure why all the gimps are emphatazing on killing speed. You guyz should record a run and actually count the time you spend killing vs doing something else. Just for you info any time you are expecting 100%+ TP per mob on killall floors you lose because it takes 1 full minute to replenish TP from regain and mobs are one shotted by WS.

**Demon6324236** · 06-02-2012 04:51 PM

Umm~ depends on the SCH? A full minute doesn't seem right by my math, 3seconds/tick 7tp/tick so thats 140tp/minute... You would need a SCH with 400 skill I think for a 5TP/tick. However I will say no, thats not going to get you far, but the haste with the regain will when you start hitting mobs, the mass haste+regain will make you WS every few seconds very easily... Making killing everything in your path simple and I would think fairly fast...

**MarkovChain** · 06-02-2012 05:28 PM

140 tp per minute dude that's fail seing as you cannot afford more than 1:30 per floor. You will always get TP on first mob, when you are on the second mob 1 min will not have passed so you are stuck and and TP gotten at this point from regain will go to trash because the next WS will not come regain so yeah. The only thing regain does is getting a WS on first mob on everyfloor.

So.... what ? Again ? No words on optimization on lamps floor and specifed enemies floors, because last I checked killall floors are the fastest floor so give us a break with your dps otimization when they clearly don't matter ?

**Demon6324236** · 06-02-2012 05:46 PM

Ok, you said WS 1hit mobs, so, if I 1hit them with my WS, why not A:Attack a mob. B:WS a nearby mob so it dies. C:TP on 1st mob again. D:WS another mob nearby. E:If D is unable to be done, WS the 1st mob and move on. In the time you take to get 4 hits (in a 5hit build) with 2handers, you would get that other 21 from Embrava which gives you the 5th hit, saving time, seconds or not, thats time, and every second counts when your racing against a clock in an event you seem to think is impossible without cheats.

How to optimize your lamps & Spec enemys, well depends what your doing, are you communicating with your party correctly? If so, Lamps can be done well, there is also luck involved in some, like order lamps. Spec enemys are another where communication can help, if your talking to people, you save time typing to search or to kill. The time you could be killing, or looking for your enemy, you must now take a few extra seconds to type out to everyone that the mobs your after are... bunnys... not every other mob in the zone. Again, seconds count.

Many things can save you time, SCH Fast Casting spells, not a massive time save, but its there. Stronger DDs, temps for power, having your SCHs kill things as well as DDs (even if they die easily, more killing can not possibly hurt), cut corners, make improvements, and you can do it. Yes luck will make a difference, but thats just the FFXI we live in today, luck has become an even bigger role. If you roll bad in this or in VW, you will get nothing for your effort. This is better in that case because in here, you can improve and at least give yourself a better shot at it. Saving just 30 seconds can mean you get more done, and are closer to winning on a good run.

**Vortex** · 06-02-2012 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

140 tp per minute dude that's fail seing as you cannot afford more than 1:30 per floor. You will always get TP on first mob, when you are on the second mob 1 min will not have passed so you are stuck and and TP gotten at this point from regain will go to trash because the next WS will not come regain so yeah. The only thing regain does is getting a WS on first mob on everyfloor.

So.... what ? Again ? No words on optimization on lamps floor and specifed enemies floors, because last I checked killall floors are the fastest floor so give us a break with your dps otimization when they clearly don't matter ?

Obviously you have never met an all enimies floor full of HNMs and other time consuming nms like byakko who uses PD.

in fact, they can actually be the slowest floors, especially on higher, large floors. just because you're all enemy floors have 5 mobs total and 4 of them are imps dosn't mean they are all the "fastest"

**MarkovChain** · 06-02-2012 05:53 PM

So what ? Your HnMs floors mean you lose anyway because if you rely on embrava to do TP spam it means that you are spending minutes on the floor, meaning you ARE losing.

I just enter 4 times on the test server to check what kind of time it takes to just "gauge" the floor.

*I had 2 killall floors (full of flan and slimes of course), It took me 1'29 and 1'02 just walking to count the mobs (no fighting).
* 1 enemy lear (a flan !!) and it took 1'02 to get to it (I followed the path it was straight forward).
* One lamp "same time" floor, took 27 second to find it.

For killalls : even if enemies are melee weak you are looking at ~1'15 running then ~10 seconds x 4 mobs per melee which makes it ~2 minutes.
For enemy leader : ~ 1'02 running and ~1' killing it total ~2 minutes.
For lamp order : 30 sec for each melee to find it's lamp, 30 sec per attempt and you need ~3 attempt to guess right so 3x30 sec wasted at least for a total of 2 minutes too.

So basically you can't afford more than 15 floors to win whatever your setup. Then you have to deal with the random floors and randomly long floors.

Cheating cuts down the time tremendously. Not for killall floors but for Enemy leader (you know quickly where the mob is : 30 sec instead of 1min to find it) or lamp order ( 2 min without cheats, 30 sec with cheat). Basically the above 4 floors example that would take 8 minutes to clear without undetectable cheats (that EVERYONE is aware of) will noow take 6 minutes. All of a sudden you went from affording 15 run max to 20 run max.

**Vortex** · 06-02-2012 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

So what ? Your HnMs floors mean you lose anyway because if you rely on embrava to do TP spam it means that you are spending minutes on the floor, meaning you ARE losing.

I see, interesting. and how many nyzul peices do you have again?

**MarkovChain** · 06-02-2012 06:07 PM

Noone but I'll be getting a shiny in a few.

**Demon6324236** · 06-02-2012 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Noone but I'll be getting a shining empy within a few days.

Cool, but this doesn't qualify you to make judgments on NNI when you don't have the gear, as such you saying its impossible without cheats is seen as only an outlet of rage and disappointment on your part, this argument/talk is over. The simple fact it is seen as impossible by a major amount of people should say there is a problem with its difficulty or we have yet to understand the true reason why we do not win. I say its a matter of luck, some skill, and that its upto the player to determine the ratio between them, more skill=less luck and so on.

**Vitus** · 06-02-2012 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by wish12oz

lol... seriously?

The basic thing to know is that if you can clear 16 floors, you will reach floor 100 13% of the time. 17 floors gets you there 30% of the time. If you're not horrible at this game, 16-17 floor average is pretty easy to accomplish, which means you'll be getting at least 1 win a week. How long has nyzul been out now? 4 months? whats that like 17 weeks? Looks to me like if you were using all your tags on nyzul with a competent group you'd already be 15/15.

Also: If you can clear 18 floors, you'll be on 100 52% of the time, 19 floors pushes it to 72%. Based on how good your group is at Nyzul directly impacts your ability to reach 100. Based on this you can see that very good groups will be able to finish much faster than average groups. Saying anyone with the gear is obviously a cheater just shows how misinformed about the event you are, and maybe even how bad at FFXI you are. Have you even gotten your friends together and done a few runs and seen what your average floor clears will amount to?

http://nicoviewer.net/sm17623114

You're full of it.
The animation lock and loading alone for 16 floor jump is ~7mins from the activation to finish. The numbers just don't add up.

And I think easing this event is a bad idea, everybody with cheat tools will clear this with high success rate. It will wreak the game balance.

I don't see they will adjust this anytime soon. We'll have to adapt. Safety in numbers!

Thread: NEO Nyzul 2.0

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