NEO Nyzul 2.0

**Ziyyigo-Tipyigo** · 06-15-2012 08:23 AM

In before lock.

**Fupafighter** · 06-15-2012 08:52 AM

So what you just suggested basically makes it so any random group can clear occasionally, while 2 sch 4 DD clear it 100% of the time then.

**Milva** · 06-15-2012 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

So what you just suggested basically makes it so any random group can clear occasionally, while 2 sch 4 DD clear it 100% of the time then.

Probably for many people reaching their chosen destination (F100) but getting shafted by RNG (no drop) would feel better than getting cut short by RNG in the middle of their run (be it low ??? jumps, 5-lamp orders, no-JA pathos on a floor where you were supposed to reapply Embrava, PDT flan, chariots and gears everywhere, etc).

If you've ever camped Charybdis at 75 - imagine it had en-death 100% on it's meele hits. You could roll double Mambo, full EVA and ride shadow recasts, but no matter what, monsters have a 20% guaranteed hit rate. So you would need luck to either get hit when you have shadow up, or evade when shadows go down. Otherwise Death.
Attempting Neo Nyzul is like fighting en-death Charybdis. Oh, but this one Hundred Fists regurarly. Enjoy.

**hiko** · 06-15-2012 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Milva

Probably for many people reaching their chosen destination (F100) but getting shafted by RNG (no drop) would feel better than getting cut short by RNG in the middle of their run (be it low ??? jumps, 5-lamp orders, no-JA pathos on a floor where you were supposed to reapply Embrava, PDT flan, chariots and gears everywhere, etc).

IMO reaching target floor (80) 25times everybody in group getting wanted item +some decent gear (probably lot better than what you have) is way better than reaching target floor(100) with 2%*n/15 drop rate (n= number of item you want/need)

If you've ever camped Charybdis at 75 - imagine it had en-death 100% on it's meele hits. You could roll double Mambo, full EVA and ride shadow recasts, but no matter what, monsters have a 20% guaranteed hit rate. So you would need luck to either get hit when you have shadow up, or evade when shadows go down. Otherwise Death.
Attempting Neo Nyzul is like fighting en-death Charybdis. Oh, but this one Hundred Fists regurarly. Enjoy.

lol.
rdm solo/duo grav/bind nuke never get hit
zerg: DD(/nin if want extra security)*4 rdm/drk sch: embrava +para+ CS stun .

so you're saying NIUR is easy as long as you don't suck?

I think luck factor is too high, but don't want SE to nerf it so every party of 6 average PU player can defeat it regulary

**Fupafighter** · 06-15-2012 09:10 AM

Then dynamis is broken. Abyssea too. Oh and VW. They all have certain job setups that succeed far superior to other setups. It's called strategy. people have been doing it for years now. And the blu's that you parse against must really suck if they can't break 3k CDC with all the gear choices they have for that weaponskill and blu traits and such. My cousin's pld/dnc can break 2.7k CDC on decent challenge mobs. No excuse that a blu couldn't. And why do DD need to have an empy to be good? Sam drg drk don't need an empy to do well in nyzle isle btw. I use draco couse on sam. Drk can use ANY high damage great sword, and dragoon can do well with a TOM polearm. Saying you need to build an empy to do well on those jobs doesn't make sense.

**Fupafighter** · 06-15-2012 11:47 AM

What?............. No. Man I wish I knew math lol. I should get some of these smart math people to prove you wrong that there is no possible way that a rdm out melee a blu lol. They have better gear options, AND better weaponskill options. It's just not possible. It just means you face mentally challenged blu's.

**Demon6324236** · 06-15-2012 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

What?............. No. Man I wish I knew math lol. I should get some of these smart math people to prove you wrong that there is no possible way that a rdm out melee a blu lol. They have better gear options, AND better weaponskill options. It's just not possible. It just means you face mentally challenged blu's.

Ok yes, your right, RDM is worthless shit job that shouldn't even exist, it has no use, and the person who mains RDM knows less about the job than the mighty person who when talking about melee RDM says that you would use Kraken Club or Joytoy with enthunder to do damage. But yes, your right, you know much more than I do, all hail your knowledge.

I did however answer your question however on how to fix it, answer is, they cant, its broken, then entire game and all its events are broken, simple as that, but its probably better to break it and make more people happy than to leave it broken and keep alot of people mad/annoyed. Without removing Embrava & PD, they will either need to make all jobs have something equally as unfair, thus voiding the need for all previous content due to the fact that it would be incredibly easy. Or they have to make Embrava & PD dispelable and most things have to spam dispel so that it cannot be godmode as it is now...

**Fupafighter** · 06-15-2012 12:39 PM

I don't need to be rdm main to know how to play the job. I have friends that rock great sets on red mage. It's just a "lol" job atm. Plain and simple. It's basically a solo job now. You're basically saying I can't read gear sets and play on the test server. Just compare job weaponskill and tp sets and tell me how in the hell a red mage would come close to a blu.

**Llana_Virren** · 06-15-2012 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

I don't need to be rdm main to know how to play the job. I have friends that rock great sets on red mage. It's just a "lol" job atm. Plain and simple. It's basically a solo job now. You're basically saying I can't read gear sets and play on the test server. Just compare job weaponskill and tp sets and tell me how in the hell a red mage would come close to a blu.

While I think that you and Demon are both getting way off topic, I'll say this: You don't need to play a job to know how the basics around it work, however it has been consistently proven that in practice, those who switch to a job that they have little real experience in playing (especially in the case of mage jobs), frequently make "nooby" mistakes which, depending on the importance of the event, can mean the difference between success and failure.

However, I do think that if NI is adjusted (with some, if any of my suggestions, it would be possible for RDM or any other job to have a value in NI, the current design makes RDM (and other jobs) obsolete. This is beyond dispute. However, the difference between RDM and many other jobs is not in the damage dealt, but the survivability and endurance of the RDM over a contemporary melee (BLU, similar to RDM, can self-buff and self-heal, which is why I rarely place the two against one another as they are both "mages").... To repeat myself though: the current design makes RDM (and other jobs) obsolete.

That said, if "BLU melee" is the standard by which we measure melee effectiveness, I can point out quite a few DRKs, SAMs, DRGs, and WARs on my server, some of whom have Empies, which would fall short in that comparison. Similarly, I know of at least 3 RDMs who can out-parse BLUs. The conditions are not the same, and if you are comparing the "uberest RDM against the uberest BLU" you might have a case; however, there are many lolDRK, lolSAM, lolDRG, lolWAR, lolDD players who think they "don't need to be XXX main to know how to play the job" and get out-parsed by lolRDM, lolPUP, et al <.<

In summary: Nothing is ever absolute.

**Demon6324236** · 06-15-2012 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

I don't need to be rdm main to know how to play the job. I have friends that rock great sets on red mage. It's just a "lol" job atm. Plain and simple. It's basically a solo job now. You're basically saying I can't read gear sets and play on the test server. Just compare job weaponskill and tp sets and tell me how in the hell a red mage would come close to a blu.

Warning
Please excuse the following if you do not care about my favored optimum builds for RDM & BLU as I see it for TPing & CDCing as that is almost all it will pertain to. I understand this is partially a derailing of this thread and I hope it is understood I only do this to make a point...

Both Jobs Full Time

Main:Almace
Sub:Ephemeron

The reason for this is because they are the weapon in question, and the best TP sub-weapon.

Red Mage

TP Set

Ammo:White Tathlum
Head:Zelus Tiara
Neck:Houyi's Gorget
Earring1:Suppanomimi
Earring2:Brutal Earring
Body:Kudzu Aketon
Hands:Brego Gloves
Ring1:Rajas Ring
Ring2:Tyrant's Ring
Back:Atheling Mantle
Waist:Goading Belt
Legs:Calmecac Trousers
Feet:Ghadhab Nails

CDC Set

Ammo:Demonry Core
Head:Maat's Cap
Neck:Moepapa Medal
Earring1:Jupiter's Pearl
Earring2:Jupiter's Pearl
Body:Antares Harness
Hands:Alucinor Mitts
Ring1:Rajas Ring
Ring2:Thundersoul Ring
Back:Aife's Mantle
Waist:Light Belt
Legs:Tumbler Trunks
Feet:Lithe Boots

Blue Mage

TP Set

Ammo:White Tathlum
Head:Ocelomeh Headpiece +1
Neck:Houyi's Gorget
Earring1:Suppanomimi
Earring2:Brutal Earring
Body:Thaumas Coat
Hands:Enif Manopolas
Ring1:Tyrant's Ring
Ring2:Rajas Ring
Back:Atheling Mantle
Waist:Twilight Belt
Legs:Enkidu's Subligar
Feet:Gules Leggings +1

CDC Set

Ammo:Thunder Sachet
Head:Ocelomeh Headpiece +1
Neck:Moepapa Medal
Earring1:Jupiter's Pearl
Earring2:Jupiter's Pearl
Body:Toci's Harness
Hands:Athos's Gloves
Ring1:Rajas Ring
Ring2:Thundersoul Ring
Back:Aife's Mantle
Waist:Light Belt
Legs:Khepri Kecks
Feet:Thaumas Nails

Side By Side Stat Compare

TP Sets

Red Mage|Blue Mage

Defense+169|Defense+202
HP+15|HP+48
MP+15|MP+48
Haste+26%|Haste+25%
Attack+56|Attack+33
Accuracy+7|Accuracy+23
Evasion-5|Evasion+6
STR+20|STR+9
DEX+30|DEX+22
AGI+34|AGI+32
Store TP+25|Store TP+24
Subtle Blow+5|Subtle Blow+10
Double Attack+33%|Double Attack+13%
Triple Attack+2%|Triple Attack+3%
Quad Attack+0%|Quad Attack+3%
Regen+0|Regen+2
Damage Taken+2%|Damage taken+0%
Dual Wield+5%|Dual Wield+5%
Sword Skill+5|Sword Skill+5
Enmity+6|Enmity+5
~~Other misc. stats do not matter with this gear or this situation as neither job can use them.~~

CDC Sets

Red Mage|Blue Mage

Defense+148|Defense+220
HP+15|HP+0
MP+50|MP+0
Haste+7%|Haste+10%
Attack+18|Attack+34
Accuracy+16|Accuracy+18
Evasion+8|Evasion+6
STR+12|STR+36
DEX+92|DEX+88
VIT+4|VIT+4
AGI+48|AGI+68
INT+7|INT+7
MND+7|MND+16
CHR+12|CHR+7
Store TP+5|Store TP+5
Subtle Blow+5|Subtle Blow+13
Double Attack+20%|Double Attack+6%
Triple Attack+0%|Triple Attack+3%
Regen+0|Regen+1
Conserve TP+7|Conserve TP+7
~~Other misc. stats do not matter with this gear or this situation as neither job can use them.~~

Note:RDM sets are assuming the effects of 500 Enhancing Magic Temper & Gain-DEX are applied to the RDM resulting in +25 DEX & +20% Double Attack, no RDM should be meleeing without these on if using CDC and as such it is added!

Well I compared, they look fairly even to me, neither job seems to truly come out above the other with everything accounted for, if I missed any stats or such please let me know, I would be happy to fix it.

Thread: NEO Nyzul 2.0

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Dev. Posts

Hybrid View

Tags for this Thread