Thread: NEO Nyzul 2.0

Wow, did this thread get derailed.. it's beautiful.

Originally Posted by user201108211515

lol he says he wont troll n the very next line he calls me an idot. priceless lol

Insulting is not trolling, and his insult was quite fitting.

Originally Posted by user201108211515

Justify it all you want. But in "reality" not following the rules is by default cheating.

No justification needed, using Windower is definitely cheating and no one's arguing that. But cheating isn't necessarily bad. There's a clear difference between (most of) the plugins Windower offers and flee/pos hacks or bots. Pretty much everything Windower has should have been in the game from day one. Without Windower most people wouldn't consider the game worth playing at all. And don't tell me that it is, because that is clearly your opinion, and you've shown everyone that your judgment cannot be trusted.

Originally Posted by user201108211515

its funny though. You say you "out preform others" when in reality it is a program that plays the game for you that is so awesome.

This is yet another line that proves you have no clue what you're talking about. Windower does not do anything at all for you. It is not a bot and doesn't allow botting (unless used by very skilled people, and still only in a very limited way using timers, similar to the <wait> feature in macro lines). Windower is basically just a better user interface.

It's funny you're arguing about not knowing right from wrong but insist on following the rules blindly. A few hundred years ago slavery was legal. Does that make it right? As long as it's not illegal, you'd beat your wife? Is that your line of reasoning? If that's what your parents taught you, shame on them and shame of you for being so gullible to believe the bullshit they were feeding you.

Using Windower is neither good nor bad. There are people who use it who don't cheat at all, no plugins, just the ability to fix the game crash or prettier graphics. Are they bad? A tool doesn't make anyone bad, only how they use it. And Windower severely limits someone's ability to automate the game, even with AutoExec and SpellCast. The Windower team is actually quite vigilant about that, which is also why they don't tolerate any flee/pos hacks or similar programs. It all depends on where you draw the line. You obviously think everyone possessing a knife is a murderer, even if they use it for cooking. And if you feel comfortable with that line of thinking, good for you. But don't go telling others what right or wrong is, because you obviously don't have a hint of a clue on the subject.

Originally Posted by user201108211515

Been playn for 8+ years and still only LV 1 lol

Judging by the intelligence of your posts it wouldn't surprise me.

Originally Posted by user201108211515

"Pretty much everything Windower has should have been in the game from day one."

Says who? you? I didnt realise you were the game creator.

Says the gaming standards across the board. Every game features most of these features now, and almost every game featured them back when FFXI was released.

Originally Posted by user201108211515

"A few hundred years ago slavery was legal. Does that make it right? As long as it's not illegal"

And look people complained and things were changed for the better. People didnt get a bot to make black people white and the problem was solved that way.. Do you think before you speak?

Do you read before you reply? We are complaining. Or didn't you get what this entire thread was about? Also, the bot analogy is off, breaking the rules in that scenario would have been to integrate different races in social groupings.

Originally Posted by user201108211515

Another bad troll attempt from someone that thinks they have the best excuse for the use of cheats.

Nothing you can say will make the use of 3rd pt tools anything less then cheating. It is aginst the rules.

Again, do you read before you reply? I stated bluntly that Windower is cheating and that no one is arguing otherwise. I'm not and I never was. I'm saying that cheating isn't necessarily bad. There are different stages of cheating. There are cheats of convenience, cheats for your own profit and lastly cheats at the expense of others. Windower falls into the first two categories. There is no flee/claim botting possible with Windower, so no one else suffers from other people using it. The fact that you're upset about it is evidence that the only thing hurting in your context is your ego.

Originally Posted by Arcon

I'm saying that cheating isn't necessarily bad. There are different stages of cheating. There are cheats of convenience, cheats for your own profit and lastly cheats at the expense of others.

Your posts usually are such that could be mine, but with this part I do disagree. While I probably understand your point and your view, it's not how it works. SqEX determines what is good and what is bad, more and less loosely in the User Agreement and Terms of Service.

Sure, there are levels to it, like, modifying the files of the game, or using something that simply 'parses' the data the game already provides. It's not about which is more bad than the other, it's just not allowed and that is it.

SqEX is more at fault than any player here though, really...


Just my thoughts~

Originally Posted by user201108211515

I get it i really do people are tryn to say that cheating isnt so black and white. that some how you all are special and live in some grey area where rules and morles dont apply to you.

Funny that you mentioned grey areas, as I used that in my initial reply here, but I accidentally closed that tab so blubb...

Wow... i don't even... i mean... what? how's this for you, i've played on console up untill the last year and am among the few people who even understands how to fully utilize the /macro set command to legally "expand" gear swap macros (or macros in general)

I recently made a switch to windower, mostly for the improved graphics and the ability to KNOW how far i am from mobs, even without windower macros i can (and with some jobs i still do) swap out 15 pieces of gear in seconds (triple tapping the same macro chaining via /macro set x) but honestly this process was cumbersome, and if i made errors it could lower my efficiency, only thing windower macros do for me is eliminate that potential of error.

Also you have no pride in your own character if you can't post as yourself, i care not to hide, i take responsibility and ownership of my opinion, as such the character you see posting is who i play as, you on the other hand dare to mask yourself while demeaning others for lacking that which you are most devoid of.

Finish graduating high school before you come onto a forum and hormone rage at everyone else.

Originally Posted by Dragoy

Your posts usually are such that could be mine, but with this part I do disagree. While I probably understand your point and your view, it's not how it works. SqEX determines what is good and what is bad, more and less loosely in the User Agreement and Terms of Service.

And I disagree with this. SE determines what's allowed and what isn't, but that bears no implication on what's right or wrong (or good or bad). That would imply that rules are perfect, but they very rarely are. Rules are designed for a reason, and people usually like to assume that it's for a good cause. However, the rules were set up by normal humans. Whoever thought of it at SE headquarters wasn't infallible. Third party tools are banned, but why? Why do other games allow them freely? SE thinks it's a good way to prevent botting/hacking, but nothing could be further from the truth. Hacks and bots have a much easier timer working around the rules and restrictions than normal humans have, hence it's just making it easier for the people abusing such exploits, while regular players suffer.

The real way to approach this would be to address the actual problems, not the means people employ to exploit them. One very right thing they did was randomize the claim timer on spawn. While that alone was not enough to stop the botting, it made it a lot harder for most of them (even rendered some of them ineffective), while giving casual players a fighting chance.

Similar to this, they shouldn't flat out ban third party applications when trying to get rid of flee/pos hacks. There's some semi-easy way to find out if someone is hacking positions or increase their movement speed that they could employ in most cases. Instead they discourage an entire market that many other games employ to strengthen the game's community. Which still wouldn't be too bad, if they were able/willing to implement these changes themselves.

Again, for the slowpoke above:
No one disagrees on the fact that Windower is against the rules. It even says so on the Windower main page. People don't have a problem with being called cheaters, people have a problem with the rules themselves. And they are complaining. They have been for almost a decade now and some things still aren't fixed. People will keep informing SE of things to change, and I for one hope that one day Windower will be completely obsolete. But in the meantime, most will use whatever tools they have available to make the game more enjoyable to them.