Dispel II

[Oscar71]

RDM can use swords and slash stuff. SCH can't do that.

But if we could, we would be Gandalfs.

[tyrantsyn]

Kk here's my 2 cents

Dispel II removes "one" Job ability or Attack type from a target for a duration base on skill and potency of the caster. Spell can not be stack. Spell could be made to either over write or have no effect if the spell is already in effect. Spell could be set up as a random loss of one of the two or have it cast after a the desired JA or Attack type in order to lock it out for the duration of the spell. Recast timer can be made longer than the max duration of the spell at capped skill and potency for reason of balance. After the spell duration wears off a cool down period could be added in order to stop spamming or trying to lock out the JA/Attack type completely "optional". Any PC trying to re~apply the spell during this period would get a resisted message.

The design of this spell adds to the over all appeal of having a RDM on hand when dealing with a particular monster with a potent attack that can be trouble some or out right devastating to the group when spammed or use back to back. It would gain RDM some utility in the group and help encourage invite's for the job class when dealing with trouble some mob's of this type. Unlike the amnesia spell idea, where the monster would loss access to all it's JA's this one only lock's out one JA/Attack type at a time for the duration of the spell. And would be set up so it couldn't be stack or spammed to completely cripple a mob.

[Demon6324236]

RDM can use swords and slash stuff. SCH can't do that.

True, but how often do leaders not mind a RDM taking up the front lines? :P

[Asymptotic]

True, but how often do leaders not mind a RDM taking up the front lines? :P

That's because RDM melee generally offers nothing of value.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

That's because RDM melee generally offers nothing of value.

Then it's relevance is none in this conversation.

[saevel]

Hey guys,

We let the development team know about your suggestion and inquiry about Dispel II. They mentioned that since Dispel's recast timer isn't considerably long, multiple buff removals may not be the best upgrade for the tier II version and from a balance perspective removing every effect from an enemy is a bit too powerful. To compare some other magic spells, Erase only removes one spell at a time, while Esuna requires Afflatus Misery to utilize its multiple debuff removal. Taking this example into consideration, what kind of effects would you like to see for Dispel II or perhaps a new magic spell?

What else can Dispel possibly do other then remove buffs? First version removed a single buff, second version must therefor remove multiple buffs or prevent the monster from putting more buffs on. Monsters can strip all our buffs at once, including food, we can at least remove 2~3 buffs from them without modifying balance.

Oki, do the Dev's understand that the community currently thinks Red Mage is a worthless job? The developers have made Red Mage an incredibly weak job while giving multiple buffs to every other job in the game.

[Llana_Virren]

Hey guys,

We let the development team know about your suggestion and inquiry about Dispel II. They mentioned that since Dispel's recast timer isn't considerably long, multiple buff removals may not be the best upgrade for the tier II version and from a balance perspective removing every effect from an enemy is a bit too powerful. To compare some other magic spells, Erase only removes one spell at a time, while Esuna requires Afflatus Misery to utilize its multiple debuff removal. Taking this example into consideration, what kind of effects would you like to see for Dispel II or perhaps a new magic spell?

I try to be courteous to those moogle-faced community reps, however I must now respond to ... "less-than-intelligent" comments with more straight-to-the-point counters:

1. Before I even get started... no one is talking about being able to remove every monster buff at once. We are arguing that the monsters we face can remove anywhere from 1-to-All of our buffs instantaneously, but we are forced to cast a single spell multiple times to be of any effect. Please, read on:

2. Why, for the sake of all that is holy in the universe, does the dev team use "WHM this and BLM that" examples when talking about RDM? It's been repeated by the Devs countless times that we will not have the same "level" of spells as those jobs, so stop comparing us to them! I'll go into detail on this as follows:

3. If Esuna is an AOE version of Erase, regardless of the subject of Afflatus Misery, why can't RDM have an AOE, "Dispelga", or allow Saboteur (or another JA) to enable Dispel to remove more than 1 effect? Just to "compare some other magic spells" as you put it.... Also, WHM's got to use Divine Seal to AOE their -na spells, and they get this over 6 years ago, and yet we still have no natural way of turning our debuffs, include dispel, into multi-target spells. (* using /SCH doesn't count as a "natural" way, as it is a subjob dependent ability).

4. Currently any and all enfeebles are meaningless beyond dispute due to the inate immunities mosters are being granted. Remove immunities. Grant NMs resistance over time (which exists in the form of Physical/Magical immunity abilities already, as well as in gradual -PDT or -MDT traits.

5. Give RDM AOE versions to all enfeebles. Again, to quote you, Okipuit-san, "To compare some other magic spells," BLM gets access to all AOE tiers of their elemental magic, and WHM gets access to all AOE tiers of their healing and divine magic. RDM has A+ enfeebling magic, yet we do not have access to any AOE enfeeble except one: Diaga. Why does RDM not have access to Diaga II, Sleepga, Sleepga II (BLM only) nor access to Slowga, Paralyga, Silencega, Blindga, Bindga, Graviga, Dispelga, Bioga (dark magic, yet we have access to Diaga), Bioga II(?), Poisonga, Poisonga II.

6. In attempt to "balance" RDM melee to RDM magery, the Dev team has sent both to hell in a handbasket. To compare other job types, WAR can balance Berserk with Defender; WHM can use Afflatus Misery or Afflatus Solace, NIN can use Yonin and Innin, but RDM has a JA that extends Enhancing magic? If we want to keep RDM "balanced" use those other jobs as an example: 1 mode which can extend enhancing buffs and quicken attack speed (Composure) and another than increases magic accuracy and potency of enfeebling/elemental magic (as well as access to the AOE versions we should already have) called "Attaque au Fer" (a Fencing term which means an attack against an opponents blade, versus the fencer himself).

More important than new magic spells, are to fix the current conditions of the game which force our current spells to be useless. Remove innate immunities before adding more spells which monsters will inevitably gain immunity against.

Once that is done, however, a few spells such as
--Ruin: Lower physical defense and attack (RDM, SCH)
--Spoil: Lower magic defense and magic attack (RDM, SCH)
--Wait: Light element, enfeebling magic version of Stun. (RDM, WHM)
--Dispell II: Remove 1 debuff and prevent monster from reapplying that attribute for a period of time (will still use MP or TP to apply, but have "no effect." (RDM)
--Give RDM and SCH access to Drown, Burn, Shock, Choke, Rasp, and Frost (RDM, BLM, SCH)
--Sap: gradually lower target's MP (RDM, SCH)
--Confuse: Target will occassionally attack itself or allied monster instead of the targetted player. (Procs similiar to Paralyze) (RDM, SCH)
--Syphon: Gradually drain HP, MP or TP from target over time (each proc can be HP, MP or TP). (RDM, SCH)
--Debrave: Lower attack and dispel /reduce any attack-boosting attributes, short-term Stun effect. (RDM)
--Defaith: Lower magic attack and dispel/reduce any magic-boosting attributes, short-term Silence effect. (RDM)
--Reflect: Self-target, will reflect up to 2 spells before breaking (based on enhancing magic), similar to Blink. (RDM, WHM)
--Reflect II: Party-target (accessionable) will reflect up to 2 spells before breaking (based on enhancing magic) similar to Blink. (RDM)

[Merton9999]

I just read the rep post on avatar issues. I never paid attention to this and don't play SMN, so am I right that Lunar Roar doesn't tell you which two buffs were removed? I guess I should have expected that given the log message after mob dispel-all moves. I'd have a big problem if Dispel II removed two buffs and didn't say which ones they were. Sometimes all I care about is Shell or some horrid damage spikes. Of course you could tell in the case of spikes but not knowing if shell was removed would be annoying. I'd probably just keep spamming Dispel I.

I'm confused about a dev response that suggests removing multiple buffs with a Dispel II would be overpowered. What about RDM in a group anymore even comes close to overpowered? I don't think anyone here suggested it remove ALL buffs. All this would do is provide some convenience in not having to spam Dispel I. If it's really such a problem I'd at least be happy if Saboteur allowed for multiple buff removal. Then you could compare it to Esuna, although Saboteur would still be on a more restrictive timer.

As for Ultima, I'd rather SCH get it, maybe in the new 2-hour, working similarly to Kaustra only light elemental. I really don't want it to be divine magic, unless there is a gobbie bag size increase along with it. For RDM, I'd much prefer a drastic adjustment to enfeebling usefulness, as well as some of the additional spells people have mentioned. Specifically, enfeebles that hurt mob TP moves or TP gain. The job vision from a while ago mentioned a spell that inhibited TP gain for SCH, which I never thought made sense. Such an enfeeble should go to RDM. My only problem is that if such a spell were given to RDM, they'd make it 1 TP a tick like Adloquium

[Demon6324236]

I just read the rep post on avatar issues. I never paid attention to this and don't play SMN, so am I right that Lunar Roar doesn't tell you which two buffs were removed? I guess I should have expected that given the log message after mob dispel-all moves. I'd have a big problem if Dispel II removed two buffs and didn't say which ones they were. Sometimes all I care about is Shell or some horrid damage spikes. Of course you could tell in the case of spikes but not knowing if shell was removed would be annoying. I'd probably just keep spamming Dispel I.

I'm confused about a dev response that suggests removing multiple buffs with a Dispel II would be overpowered. What about RDM in a group anymore even comes close to overpowered? I don't think anyone here suggested it remove ALL buffs. All this would do is provide some convenience in not having to spam Dispel I. If it's really such a problem I'd at least be happy if Saboteur allowed for multiple buff removal. Then you could compare it to Esuna, although Saboteur would still be on a more restrictive timer.

As for Ultima, I'd rather SCH get it, maybe in the new 2-hour, working similarly to Kaustra only light elemental. I really don't want it to be divine magic, unless there is a gobbie bag size increase along with it. For RDM, I'd much prefer a drastic adjustment to enfeebling usefulness, as well as some of the additional spells people have mentioned. Specifically, enfeebles that hurt mob TP moves or TP gain. The job vision from a while ago mentioned a spell that inhibited TP gain for SCH, which I never thought made sense. Such an enfeeble should go to RDM. My only problem is that if such a spell were given to RDM, they'd make it 1 TP a tick like Adloquium

Thats why I don't understand SE's "vision" on RDM, I'm guessing at some point a RDM got tired of their "vision" for them and cast blind on SE, and now they have no vision anymore. We used to get buffs, now we get only self buffs, SCH gets every good single target/AoEable buff, and WHM gets alot of AoE versions of our stat buffs (Yay for Gain spells, wait, WHM has the same thing, but its called Boost... -_-) we also got enfeebling, but from what you just said, we arnt getting anything useful, the one spell that makes the most sence to give us, would be given to SCH. Our melee suffers, MAB suffers, cures arnt the same, because we cannot spam Rapture as a SCH can or use V/VI. A Dispel II would cut down on MP use, but not much else other than time.

As for Ultima I disagree, SCH has good enough 2hours, they currently have the arguably 2nd best 2 hour in the game. SMN being in 1st, instant death or near invincibility for those nearby. However SCH also gives super powers for melee & the best DoT in the game! Like I said earlier this thread, SCH had its time to shine, let RDM have its turn, because RDM is the most worthless mage atm. SCH, WHM, BLM, SMN, all have their own special spells or 2hours that make them a job to bring, RDM, doesn't.

[Demon6324236]

RDM can use swords and slash stuff. SCH can't do that.

Swords? No... but~ with this you might see a SCH doing just as well or better than a RDM...