Dispel II

[Demon6324236]

RDM can use swords and slash stuff. SCH can't do that.

True, but how often do leaders not mind a RDM taking up the front lines? :P

[Asymptotic]

True, but how often do leaders not mind a RDM taking up the front lines? :P

That's because RDM melee generally offers nothing of value.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

That's because RDM melee generally offers nothing of value.

Then it's relevance is none in this conversation.

[Asymptotic]

Then it's relevance is none in this conversation.

Congratulations for being able to read or something?

[Demon6324236]

RDM can use swords and slash stuff. SCH can't do that.

Swords? No... but~ with this you might see a SCH doing just as well or better than a RDM...

[tyrantsyn]

Kk here's my 2 cents

Dispel II removes "one" Job ability or Attack type from a target for a duration base on skill and potency of the caster. Spell can not be stack. Spell could be made to either over write or have no effect if the spell is already in effect. Spell could be set up as a random loss of one of the two or have it cast after a the desired JA or Attack type in order to lock it out for the duration of the spell. Recast timer can be made longer than the max duration of the spell at capped skill and potency for reason of balance. After the spell duration wears off a cool down period could be added in order to stop spamming or trying to lock out the JA/Attack type completely "optional". Any PC trying to re~apply the spell during this period would get a resisted message.

The design of this spell adds to the over all appeal of having a RDM on hand when dealing with a particular monster with a potent attack that can be trouble some or out right devastating to the group when spammed or use back to back. It would gain RDM some utility in the group and help encourage invite's for the job class when dealing with trouble some mob's of this type. Unlike the amnesia spell idea, where the monster would loss access to all it's JA's this one only lock's out one JA/Attack type at a time for the duration of the spell. And would be set up so it couldn't be stack or spammed to completely cripple a mob.

[Merton9999]

I just read the rep post on avatar issues. I never paid attention to this and don't play SMN, so am I right that Lunar Roar doesn't tell you which two buffs were removed? I guess I should have expected that given the log message after mob dispel-all moves. I'd have a big problem if Dispel II removed two buffs and didn't say which ones they were. Sometimes all I care about is Shell or some horrid damage spikes. Of course you could tell in the case of spikes but not knowing if shell was removed would be annoying. I'd probably just keep spamming Dispel I.

I'm confused about a dev response that suggests removing multiple buffs with a Dispel II would be overpowered. What about RDM in a group anymore even comes close to overpowered? I don't think anyone here suggested it remove ALL buffs. All this would do is provide some convenience in not having to spam Dispel I. If it's really such a problem I'd at least be happy if Saboteur allowed for multiple buff removal. Then you could compare it to Esuna, although Saboteur would still be on a more restrictive timer.

As for Ultima, I'd rather SCH get it, maybe in the new 2-hour, working similarly to Kaustra only light elemental. I really don't want it to be divine magic, unless there is a gobbie bag size increase along with it. For RDM, I'd much prefer a drastic adjustment to enfeebling usefulness, as well as some of the additional spells people have mentioned. Specifically, enfeebles that hurt mob TP moves or TP gain. The job vision from a while ago mentioned a spell that inhibited TP gain for SCH, which I never thought made sense. Such an enfeeble should go to RDM. My only problem is that if such a spell were given to RDM, they'd make it 1 TP a tick like Adloquium

[Demon6324236]

I just read the rep post on avatar issues. I never paid attention to this and don't play SMN, so am I right that Lunar Roar doesn't tell you which two buffs were removed? I guess I should have expected that given the log message after mob dispel-all moves. I'd have a big problem if Dispel II removed two buffs and didn't say which ones they were. Sometimes all I care about is Shell or some horrid damage spikes. Of course you could tell in the case of spikes but not knowing if shell was removed would be annoying. I'd probably just keep spamming Dispel I.

I'm confused about a dev response that suggests removing multiple buffs with a Dispel II would be overpowered. What about RDM in a group anymore even comes close to overpowered? I don't think anyone here suggested it remove ALL buffs. All this would do is provide some convenience in not having to spam Dispel I. If it's really such a problem I'd at least be happy if Saboteur allowed for multiple buff removal. Then you could compare it to Esuna, although Saboteur would still be on a more restrictive timer.

As for Ultima, I'd rather SCH get it, maybe in the new 2-hour, working similarly to Kaustra only light elemental. I really don't want it to be divine magic, unless there is a gobbie bag size increase along with it. For RDM, I'd much prefer a drastic adjustment to enfeebling usefulness, as well as some of the additional spells people have mentioned. Specifically, enfeebles that hurt mob TP moves or TP gain. The job vision from a while ago mentioned a spell that inhibited TP gain for SCH, which I never thought made sense. Such an enfeeble should go to RDM. My only problem is that if such a spell were given to RDM, they'd make it 1 TP a tick like Adloquium

Thats why I don't understand SE's "vision" on RDM, I'm guessing at some point a RDM got tired of their "vision" for them and cast blind on SE, and now they have no vision anymore. We used to get buffs, now we get only self buffs, SCH gets every good single target/AoEable buff, and WHM gets alot of AoE versions of our stat buffs (Yay for Gain spells, wait, WHM has the same thing, but its called Boost... -_-) we also got enfeebling, but from what you just said, we arnt getting anything useful, the one spell that makes the most sence to give us, would be given to SCH. Our melee suffers, MAB suffers, cures arnt the same, because we cannot spam Rapture as a SCH can or use V/VI. A Dispel II would cut down on MP use, but not much else other than time.

As for Ultima I disagree, SCH has good enough 2hours, they currently have the arguably 2nd best 2 hour in the game. SMN being in 1st, instant death or near invincibility for those nearby. However SCH also gives super powers for melee & the best DoT in the game! Like I said earlier this thread, SCH had its time to shine, let RDM have its turn, because RDM is the most worthless mage atm. SCH, WHM, BLM, SMN, all have their own special spells or 2hours that make them a job to bring, RDM, doesn't.

[Jerbob]

To comment on Esuna, the absurd number of hoops you have to jump through before that spell will remove anything worthwhile makes it of limited use at the best of times. Being positioned next to party members (which wastes vital seconds running in during fights that matter), having the appropriate JA activated, being afflicted with the appropriate status effects yourself (which you may well resist anyway with the appropriate barspells, and may involve debilitating silence/amnesia/paralysis/addle etc)...

Of course I am not saying that RDM shouldn't have something similar, but it does demonstrate the sort of hoops that SE will put RDM through for removing multiple effects in the name of balance. Something inane like "Dispel II will remove multiple effects under Saboteur if the Red Mage is currently under the effect of the appropriate bar-status and bar-element spells matching the effects to be removed" would not surprise me.

I really like Llana's list of spell candidates, though I think they should remain RDM exclusive. WHM, and SCH in particular, don't need any (more) enfeebling spells, in my opinion. There was a nice suggestion a while ago for an enfeebling spell that added a static "waiting period" to the use of any mob TP moves that might also fit nicely.

[Demon6324236]

Hmm~ a TP version of Addle wouldn't be bad, longer times to use it = easier stun, which could help alot on NMs like Morta with annoying TPs such as Full Bloom.

Also, we could get a spell I always liked in the past, Libra(Scan) which tells us the Attack, Defense, Resistances, blah blah blah, basically tells you what your up against. Libra is a SCH JA for Enmity already, so we could have a RDM spell and name it the other common name, Scan. Long cast time because you have to analyze the mob, but after, you get a list of much its info. This would also be a way to tell HP amounts on NMs that hide it, which you would not get a constant display, but rather you would be able to recast it again for more info, or updated info. I will however admit this may make more sense for SCH, but it is still an idea.