Is there a need for job rolls anymore?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Refresh2 (yes, it's lol) would most likely have the RDM pulling ahead of the BLM/SCH's sublimation and stoneskin combo for MP efficiency with healing. But still, RDM is broken in the exact opposite way that abby-WHM is broken.

Is redundant in most recent content with SE's ability to make MP so easy to deal with.

Refresh II will forever be pants until they stop handing out temps to recover MP every 30 seconds.

[Cabalabob]

no, because each job will become WHMs in their own respectable fields...just no

That's kinda the point.. our jobs should be built to fulfill a specific role amazingly and no other role or multiple roles not as well. Whm is the best in the healing field cause it can't do much else (or shouldn't be able to) rdm and sch aren't as good at healing as a whm cause they can nuke/enfeeble aswell. The same should apply to all others in their specific roles, then you play with other people who fulfill roles that compliment your role (as MMORPG's are designed to be played) or you can play as a hybrid job to cover roles you might be missing or solo things that only need those roles

[Daniel_Hatcher]

That's kinda the point.. our jobs should be built to fulfill a specific role amazingly and no other role or multiple roles not as well. Whm is the best in the healing field cause it can't do much else (or shouldn't be able to) rdm and sch aren't as good at healing as a whm cause they can nuke/enfeeble aswell. The same should apply to all others in their specific roles, then you play with other people who fulfill roles that compliment your role (as MMORPG's are designed to be played) or you can play as a hybrid job to cover roles you might be missing or solo things that only need those roles

Not quite true.

[Yinnyth]

Part of this that is wrong, PLD, PLD does need more attack, because if the hate cap wasn't a problem with PLD being able to hold hate, its damage would defiantly be a problem. DDs these days do alot more than a PLD can hope to, and even with everything a PLD can do to try to hold hate, it wont matter, because it doesn't do enough damage to hold up that end.

My opinion is that this is more a problem with the way the hate system works. Even if a PLD could keep their hate up as high as the DDs, they'd only spend 1/(# of DDs + 1) of the time tanking because everyone caps very quickly. So no, I don't think PLDs deserve to do higher damage, I think the enmity system needs to be changed, and PLD needs to be given more non-damage tools for holding hate.

[Demon6324236]

My opinion is that this is more a problem with the way the hate system works. Even if a PLD could keep their hate up as high as the DDs, they'd only spend 1/(# of DDs + 1) of the time tanking because everyone caps very quickly. So no, I don't think PLDs deserve to do higher damage, I think the enmity system needs to be changed, and PLD needs to be given more non-damage tools for holding hate.

I did say that too...

Part of this that is wrong, PLD, PLD does need more attack, because if the hate cap wasn't a problem with PLD being able to hold hate, its damage would definitely be a problem. DDs these days do alot more than a PLD can hope to, and even with everything a PLD can do to try to hold hate, it wont matter, because it doesn't do enough damage to hold up that end.

I say damage shouldn't be the only way to hold hate but also I think PLD shouldn't only wait on ability or spell timers. If I had Provoke & Flash as my only things that take alot of hate to turn the mob to me (basically about all I got right now...) than all I do is use those... wait 30 seconds... voke... wait however flash recast is (depends on the lv of fastcast gear) use that, and keep waiting. Attacking mattering little because of PLDs awful damage output. But to me this feels like a very dry thing, and PLD deals so very little damage as of now, when everything else does so much, so whatever these hate tools are, would need to be fairly better than what we have now I would think.

[DaBackpack]

Suggestions to Square-Enix to restore these roles:

1.) The 'staggering' system was a nice touch to the game, but you need to stop with it. Three events revolving around it is more than enough. It is a cool little thing to add an element of uncertainty, but it is absolutely not a substitute for balancing jobs. Just because an alliance needs wyvern/jump procs does not mean DRG is useful again.

2.) There needs to be a way to increase the hate cap for certain jobs (namely Paladin). I'm sorry, but this is really one of the only solutions. It doesn't have to be MUCH higher, but it is unacceptable as it is. PLD should not exist only to supertank adds or occasionally Shield Bash stuff.

3.) I think the RDM enfeebling magic issue has been beaten to death already. It seems that there is no real remedy for this; on one hand, making enfeebles useful will make RDM useful. On the other hand, it would make kiting and such the way to handle tougher mobs. I'm a fan of RDM solos, but it would be too much to allow higher level content to be handled with kiting again. Maybe you should give RDM some other specialty that isn't hit or miss?

4.) To be honest, I think the best way to handle the balancing issue is to simultaneously release a lot of content at once. There is fundamentally no way to let a Paladin, a Thief, and a Dancer be useful at the same time (generally speaking). There should be
a.) Higher-level HNM-style content but without the 72-hour waiting times.
b.) An equally relevant low-man event that other niche-type jobs can excel at. There could just be different gear involved so there would be incentive to do the HNM types as well.

I claim that it's impossible to make all jobs equally (potentially) useful at any given event, considering how the game mechanics work at the moment. We just need different events that some could excel at, that aren't outdated. Individual job adjustments will still be needed, of course.

[Yinnyth]

My mistake. When you said "PLD does need more attack", I thought you meant that was the best solution. In your opinion, what is the best solution? If it involves increasing PLD's attack, I still oppose it. I think it should be done by changing the ways hate works, and changing the ways PLDs (and other jobs) manipulate it. Not by making PLD a better DD. That's what I'm getting at here. You said PLD needs more attack, I said "nuh uh". Or at least that's what I thought you said. But I definately said "nuh uh".

[Demon6324236]

My mistake. When you said "PLD does need more attack", I thought you meant that was the best solution. In your opinion, what is the best solution? If it involves increasing PLD's attack, I still oppose it. I think it should be done by changing the ways hate works, and changing the ways PLDs (and other jobs) manipulate it. Not by making PLD a better DD. That's what I'm getting at here. You said PLD needs more attack, I said "nuh uh". Or at least that's what I thought you said. But I definately said "nuh uh".

I don't really think that PLD should be DDing and I agree, hate needs to change how it works. But the reason why attack would be the easiest way to make PLD take hate though is because without making PLD just wait on timers, there is really no other way. For instance, if PLD had 3 high hate abilitys/spells (like Provoke & Flash) and can take almost no hate via melee then all you get is a job spamming these abilitys/spells, with little in between. This is imo a boring idea, you would want PLD to be fun to play, so you wouldn't want it to just be Provoke/Flash and get hit. Now I'm not saying make it a strong DD, not even a decent DD, but I think it should do some ok damage to hold up its hate.

As said, obviously the hate cap as of now is what kills PLD, it cant tank when everyone is capped on hate and the mob is spinning in circles between the 8 people attacking it. I think the hate cap should be raised 100 times as high as it is, it will be able to be hit, but it will take alot of time, not just 30 seconds... PLD should get its own version of provoke in ability form, lv55, takes 3 times the enmity of Provoke. PLD should also have a slightly higher hate cap so in the event it is hit, the PLD can still tank. Just has to play the job correctly.