What's up with Max Level Monsters in Lower Level Areas?

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Nation: Windurst
Mission: "Lost For Words"
Areas involved: Windurst Woods, Maze of Shakhrami, Inner Horutoto Ruins, Windurst Walls
Jobs of involved NPCs (where applicable): THF, BLM, SMN

Excepting the level 80+ goblins and skeletons now roaming the "Beetle's Burrow" portion of Inner Horutoto Ruins, the highest-level aggressive monsters near the places that need to be reached are Maze Scorpions in the Maze of Shakhrami, which are T/VT to the target level of 20; many duos and most trios at the target level won't find fighting their way through too challenging.

As I noted above, in this specific example it is possible to avoid the aggressive level-80+ monsters. However, with regards to storyline and lore, there is (and should be) absolutely, positively no reason to go anywhere near Jeuno or Selbina before any nation's 2-3. Relatively adequate gear is available for sale at these missions' low levels from NPC shops in starting cities or, at the very least, in exchange for CP.

"Go to the Auction House and..." should never be a requirement for any mission.

[Meyi]

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. Why on earth are you people so intent on defending SE's bad level design changes?

I agree that the layout is bad. I think they should change it. However, there are currently ways to avoid aggro from higher level monsters while waiting for Square Enix to fix its errors. But, to refuse to buy medicines that several players use already simply because of money (and then refusing to get the skill levels to make them) is lazy. Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to in order to make the things we do want to do easier to accomplish.

"Go to the Auction House and..." should never be a requirement for any mission.

Hm, Bastok's Mission 6-2 requires an Adaman Ore. Could have been mined, just like silent oils and prism powders can be crafted.

[cidbahamut]

I agree that the layout is bad. I think they should change it. However, there are currently ways to avoid aggro from higher level monsters while waiting for Square Enix to fix its errors. But, to refuse to buy medicines that several players use already simply because of money (and then refusing to get the skill levels to make them) is lazy. Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to in order to make the things we do want to do easier to accomplish.

Then we're in agreement. The level design is borked and needs to be fixed. In the meantime there are workarounds, even if they are less than ideal.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Hm, Bastok's Mission 6-2 requires an Adaman Ore. Could have been mined, just like silent oils and prism powders can be crafted.

Mining doesn't require skill, is closely tied to Bastok in the lore, and the required "ingredient" (i.e. pickaxes) is sold by NPCs everywhere.

Alchemy requires skill, has nothing to do with Windurst, and the required ingredients aren't consistently available from NPCs and/or require farming monsters impossible to defeat at the mission's target level.

[Meyi]

Mining doesn't require skill, is closely tied to Bastok in the lore, and the required "ingredient" (i.e. pickaxes) is sold by NPCs everywhere.

No, but mining requires you go to very dangerous places to get anything worth any value.

Majority of Alchemy synth items are sold by NPCs as well. And Alchemy doesn't require you go be in zones that will most likely destroy you if you aren't a high level player.

Alchemy requires skill, has nothing to do with Windurst, and the required ingredients aren't consistently available from NPCs and/or require farming monsters impossible to defeat at the mission's target level.

Alchemy is a good skill to have as it can bring in decent money at higher levels. And skill is something that never goes away (unless you take it past 60 and then take another craft past 60). If going to Bastok is too much of a pain, an Alchemy mule could be created (it's only a dollar more a month). But, as someone who's wanting to adventure, I think it's a wise idea to actually explore the world of Vana'diel -- going to Bastok, a main city, is a good place to start.

Most ingredients (especially for lower level synths) are sold from NPCs. Getting the ingredients at his level wouldn't be a problem at all -- Rock Salt (NPC), Distilled Water (NPC), Yellow Globes (fishing in Qufim Island), Cobalt Jellyfish (NPC), Dagger (NPC), Animal Glue (synth with bone chip (AH/Gusgen Mines party) distilled water and rabbit hides (NPC or low level bunnies)), Crying Mustard (NPC), Poison Flour (NPC), Sleepshroom (low level funguar), and Bronze Dagger (NPC). To get to level 32+ is very very easy, even for a lower level player. :/ And, Alchemy is something that can be used in the future! It's truly a valuable skill and I think this is a good time to consider leveling it.

I don't understand your great disdain against helping a fellow player gain the appropriate knowledge and skills to avoid unwanted monsters. They exist everywhere, not just in the revamped zones. There have been many monsters for many events that proved irritating and difficult to maneuver around -- players did so with sneak, invis, and large groups. I'm aware that Square Enix has changed many things about the game, made many events much easier, and having level 99 helps tremendously with foes of the past. However, I also did many events at a low level with friends, in large groups, and suffered much grieving over obstacles. These obstacles trained me to avoid them, and avoid them effectively. So, while I hate to be the guy who says "I had to do it, so so do you!", I think this is a decent learning opportunity for this new young adventurer. And while Square Enix is figuring out how to fix this situation, I think we should be encouraging the player to grow and develop, not pamper them.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

No, but mining requires you go to very dangerous places to get anything worth any value.

The target level of the mission you cite is ~55. Even discounting the possibility of getting adaman ore from chocobo digging, three or so 55's in a party can securely get around large portions of Ifrit's Cauldron.

Majority of Alchemy synth items are sold by NPCs as well. And Alchemy doesn't require you go be in zones that will most likely destroy you if you aren't a high level player.

A level 20 player will not be farming an Ahriman Lens to make Prism Powders with.

If going to Bastok is too much of a pain, an Alchemy mule could be created (it's only a dollar more a month).

So your advice goes from "Give someone else gil" to "Give someone else dollars?"

But, as someone who's wanting to adventure, I think it's a wise idea to actually explore the world of Vana'diel -- going to Bastok, a main city, is a good place to start.

Why must a Windurstian explore Bastok before exploring Windurst's own backyard?

Most ingredients (especially for lower level synths) are sold from NPCs.

Most crystals are not, and Light Crystals (necessary for Prism Powders) are notoriously difficult to find at low levels.

And, Alchemy is something that can be used in the future! It's truly a valuable skill and I think this is a good time to consider leveling it.

But why should it be a requirement?

I don't understand your great disdain against helping a fellow player gain the appropriate knowledge and skills to avoid unwanted monsters.

It should never be required.

They exist everywhere, not just in the revamped zones. There have been many monsters for many events that proved irritating and difficult to maneuver around

"Irritating and difficult" does not not mean "impossible." Name one non-addon mission in which sneak/invis was a requirement.

-- players did so with sneak, invis, and large groups.

"Large groups" isn't the same as "including a 99 in that group."

So, while I hate to be the guy who says "I had to do it, so so do you!",

In this case, you never had to do it in such conditions.

I think we should be encouraging the player to grow and develop, not pamper them.

And how is this accomplished by "Maek high-level friends, n00b?"

[Meyi]

Ugh...so many of your responses are giving me a headache. But I will respond to this one because I found it the most important to clear up with you.

"Large groups" isn't the same as "including a 99 in that group."

Level 99 didn't exist back in 2003. Of course large group does not equate including a 99 in that group. Large is a reference to number of players, not levels. Back in 2003, large groups consisted of an alliance of lower level players who all had the same goal.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Back in 2003, large groups consisted of an alliance of lower level players who all had the same goal.

And today, about the only thing a full alliance of level 20 players can do against a level 80+ goblin is give it TP. The only way they'd last a minute before wiping is if the goblin has a particularly slow weapon in its hand.