Increase the number of meritable WS

[Nala]

It's almost EXACTLY the same. The only difference between talents and merits is talents are earned as you level up while merits are earned after you level up. You're "forced" to choose between a set of skills and effects which you are not allowed enough points to fully obtain.

Oy feels like i'm almost talking to P-chan now, Talent points are a natural part of leveling that existed in the game since day one, merits was an addition later on as a way to increase your potential (very slightly) further more where and how you allocate your talent points had a VERY large impact on how your character performs. by comparison with the older merit systems its ok if you werent a Flare II BLM (fire spec mage) rather you're making my head hurt each time you try and reference spec and FFXI in the same damn sentance, merits =/= talent points/talent tree's.

As said before by others very few of the job specific merits are even potent enough to make a difference, or to state in another way some of the job specific merits are lacking in utility to such a degree that they aren't even worth meriting.

Also good for you for never joining a bandwagon job, or perhaps you could just ignore whats in and out and play what you like as i always have, and don't say that you do, you just specifically stated that you consciously avoid playing the in jobs.

[Alhanelem]

Talent points are a natural part of leveling that existed in the game since day one

You could easily make Merits a natural part of leveling by having the merit system always active instead of only coming online at level 75. Earn merits whenever oyu want or change the system up a bit and have EXP go towards both level and merit points and bam- Talent system. Point is, they both do pretty much the same thing.

Merits ~= Talents ~= talent trees. It's close enough. I said "almost exactly" not exactly. But lets keep playing with semantics.

Also good for you for never joining a bandwagon job, or perhaps you could just ignore whats in and out and play what you like as i always have, and don't say that you do, you just specifically stated that you consciously avoid playing the in jobs.

I do.

That's because all the jobs I like have never been an "in" job, and most of the ones I don't care for at all are the ones that are. Except maybe SCH at one point but that was pretty short lived. I consider WAR and MNK to be two of the most boring jobs in the game, in particular. WHM I've had a vague interest in but chose not to level it after seeing what it did to some of my friends a few years ago. They nearly quit but then decided to abandon it when the level caps went up and left it at 75. They picked up other jobs (DRG and BLU as mains) and never looked back.

[Anapingofness]

Yes, obviously everyone would get them even if they didnt want / need them, just because they can....

By your logic, every billionaire d-bag would own every model of automobile, right down to the ford festiva. Not because they want or need one, but because they can. I have yet to see footage of George Clooney's famous Hyundai collection.

People would still only have the weapon skills they want. Even if they could have them all, only people who want them all would get them all. Ever notice how few maat's caps you see? .... "But everyone can get all the jobs to 99... where's the customization? oh noes!"

That's what I've been saying!
I'm glad someone else understands as well!

[Nala]

You could easily make Merits a natural part of leveling by having the merit system always active instead of only coming online at level 75. Earn merits whenever oyu want or change the system up a bit and have EXP go towards both level and merit points and bam- Talent system. Point is, they both do pretty much the same thing.

Merits ~= Talents ~= talent trees. It's close enough. I said "almost exactly" not exactly. But lets keep playing with semantics.

Perhaps they could but as it stands now merits are 75+ and i do not foresee them ever changing that, to quote you on the matter "no merits before 75" (a tribute to the no police)

Merits are nowhere near as robust compared to the level of customization talents tree's give. The way you allocate your merits do not fundamentally change the way you play your class, perhaps add some extra utility or 1-2 new abilities where as the way you are spec'd via talent tree has a VERY real and VERY significant impact on your ability to perform or even influences what situations you accel better at eg. PvP PvE ect.

The only thing as of now that fits that category is not having the proper merited ws for a DD main which you're taking to end game. Given that merit ws's do not fit either formula that is to say regular merit system concept and all access that every other weapon skill in the game has been afforded. so no talent tree ~= merits, talent tree > merits as all merits do is offer minor boosts to minor aspects of your character or class.

[Alhanelem]

Merits are nowhere near as robust compared to the level of customization talents tree's give.

this is largely because they were tacked on later rather than always being a part of the game's advancement and SE was ultra-conservative in terms of creating worthwhile effects

The way you allocate your merits do not fundamentally change the way you play your class,

except for... drumroll please... weapon skills, apparently, hence this thread. of course, any feature that fundamentally changes anything is immediately fired upon by the resistant-to-change group of players who don't want the changes at all, and the most entitled players who want more than what is given.

So, we can apparently either happily live with limits on shitty merits that don't do much, or we fight over how problematic the limits when the merits are actually useful. neither situation is particularly good. -.-

Honestly, this whole thread is likely pointless as you can be pretty sure SE is never going to remove the limits entirely. The odds of even increasing the limit (something that I am okay with) are probably pretty low too.

Ever notice how few maat's caps you see?

Honestly, I'm quite sure most of the people who have one aren't wearing it. It's not exactly an achievement to reach level 66 on every job.that isn't even a third of the EXP to cap all jobs.

Perhaps they could but as it stands now merits are 75+ and i do not foresee them ever changing that, to quote you on the matter "no merits before 75" (a tribute to the no police)

the thing is, all the stat/skill merits work below level 75, you simply have to reach that level first. If they work below 75 you should be able to earn them below 75, when you think about it.

[Nala]

Why is it automatically entitlement when we use the forum to wait for it... request changes be made? seriously who died and made you the no police, it's all i ever see with you, first response post to almost every topic with an immediate no.

Your argument is that we do specialize, i disagree, untill they added merited weapon skills which is a formula breaker in a game that has never had high impact "specialization" this should have never happened, people are ok with sub par merits not being addressed because they are sub par, just look at the recent sange thread, but when they add something actually useful and then do something retarded like this people do care. hmm for that matter people also care when they are wasting time updating useless merits too.

[hiko]

Again, this means that the weapon skills are too good, not that the merit system is flawed. This didn't happen with the group 2 merits, which added lots of new spells and abilities. If those went around for this long without threads like this coming up, then the merit point system itself is not at fault for the current situation. The weaponskills themselves are.

It's not like there Aren't any other threads complaining that one or more of the weapon skills are too good.

this didn't happen with g2merit because g2 are PER JOB LIMITED, not OVERALL LIMITED!
what do you think hapened if G2 was 15merit limit total?

some G2 merits have some utility even if not 5/5,
WS don't

[Kysaiana]

this didn't happen with g2merit because g2 are PER JOB LIMITED, not OVERALL LIMITED!
what do you think hapened if G2 was 15merit limit total?

some G2 merits have some utility even if not 5/5,
WS don't

I made this exact same point earlier and he ignored it, so don't hold your breath.

How many people are asking to be able to cap every single WS in the category? It would certainly be nice if you could but I don't see SE every doing that, and I personally only want the cap to be raised to a more reasonable number. Three is just too limited especially when the WS are useless if not 5/5.

[Alhanelem]

Three is just too limited especially when the WS are useless if not 5/5.

care to scientifically/mathematically prove that all merit WS are inferior to the previous best option with 4/5? It has been claimed that certain WS are dramatically better than the previous best option. If that were truly the case, even losing a 20% modifier shouldn't be enough to make it inferior. Consider staff (lol). Even 1/5 shattersoul superior to retribution, the previous best staff WS.

I didn't ignore the point, I don't agree with it.

this didn't happen with g2merit because g2 are PER JOB LIMITED, not OVERALL LIMITED!

Even within each job, you can't max everything. So the same entitled people that want everything now should have been complaining back then.

I personally only want the cap to be raised to a more reasonable number.

Why are you posting then? I've already posted at least half a dozen times in this thread and once in another that i'm cool with a limit increase? I only don't want to see the limit removed entirely.

[Spiritreaver]

care to scientifically/mathematically prove that all merit WS are inferior to the previous best option with 4/5? It has been claimed that certain WS are dramatically better than the previous best option. If that were truly the case, even losing a 20% modifier shouldn't be enough to make it inferior. Consider staff (lol). Even 1/5 shattersoul superior to retribution, the previous best staff WS.

I didn't ignore the point, I don't agree with it.

Even within each job, you can't max everything. So the same entitled people that want everything now should have been complaining back then.


Why are you posting then? I've already posted at least half a dozen times in this thread and once in another that i'm cool with a limit increase? I only don't want to see the limit removed entirely.

Why are you still posting in this thread? Aside from continuing to prolong an argument between yourself and practically everyone else with an opinion on this issue that is?


*Everyone, even you, agrees that 3 of the Merit WSs @ 5/5 is too limiting.

*We all know SE will not open up the whole categoriy to be maxed, and honestly aside from a few posters saying that they'd be ok with that even though they know it won't happen, i'm not seeing a ton of ppl asking for that.

*General consensus is that opening up the category from 3 to 5 WSs @ 5/5 is the way to go.


That sum the tone of the thread up? I mean you keep brandishing the 'specialization' idea about like a shield, but that's just dumb imo and amounts to you white-knighting for yet another of SE's poorly thought out and even more poorly implemented ideas. But that is the thread in a nutshell right?


So again, why are you still posting?