Increase the number of meritable WS

[Alhanelem]

Giving access to all weapon skills is not the same as being able to spec every ability in every ability tree of wow

It's almost EXACTLY the same. The only difference between talents and merits is talents are earned as you level up while merits are earned after you level up. You're "forced" to choose between a set of skills and effects which you are not allowed enough points to fully obtain.

Like I said before I'd have no issue with the current merit system if the new WS weren't head and shoulders above what you naturally gain through skillup. If you do not have the Empyrean WS or the merit WS on some weapon types you are a a huge disadvantage.

A Shoha SAM is significantly better than a SAM that still has to rely on Tachi: Gekko.
A BST with Ruinator has a significant advantage over a BST still using Rampage.
A Resolution DRK is going to blow a DRK using Spinning Slash out of the water.

In a game where minor gains are everything, these are huge improvements of a caliber that FFXI rarely achieves.

If you were actually running a real argument for a middle ground position of balance you'd bring up improving some weaponskills that are laughably bad and quite recent like Bora Axe, Cloudsplitter, Blade: Shun, Tachi: Ageha or even the retweaking weaponskills that are old like Ground Strike, Steel Cyclone or Blade: Ku.

This is a perspective I can respect- and it's also the area I'd rather see improvements in.

All we are really asking for is for them to be more consistent with how it was done in the past--we're talking over 7 YEARS of freedom, and now they clamp down on everyone like this.

What? The merit system has been "limiting" and clamping down on everyone for all of those 7 years. This has only become an issue now because the weapon skills are shinier than most of the merit options available previously. You were forced to choose which attributes to raise, whether to raise HP or MP more, which combat skills to raise, which magic skills to raise, whether to merit enmity up or down or merit crit rate or a couple other random things. I'm not really seeing this "freedom" that's been "clamped down."

[RAIST]

The merit system has never forced this kind of restriction where players were completely left out because they weren't fully meritted in one specific category. My BLM NEVER got cut out of a party because it wasn't fully spec'ed out--it still had it's utility. Same with other jobs. I still got asked to go on SAM to events because they wanted the skillchain flexibility and it's 2-hour.

THEY WANTED THE JOB'S FEATURES, NOT THE WS.

NOW, THEY RESTRICT B/C OF THE WS.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

[Alhanelem]

The merit system has never forced this kind of restriction where players were completely left out because they weren't fully meritted in one specific category. My BLM NEVER got cut out of a party because it wasn't fully spec'ed out--it still had it's utility.

So you're getting cut out of playing BLM because you haven't merited Shattersoul? Huh? How are the weapon skill merits causing this?

(some edits later) Well, If you're complaining about the addition of the SAM WS, that's because that WS is OP, not because the merit system is defective. Going back to Sparthos' post, it wouldn't be that big of a deal if the new WS were better balanced.

I agree with your post in the sense I want to be chosen because of my job's features. This needs to be addressed by balancing the jobs, not by changing the merit system. You're still going to have your problem even if you could unlock every merit WS.

[RAIST]

Good grief... are you really that dense? No, BLM had it's role for stuns, DOT/Enfeebles, and Magic bursting. Having 2/5 in an element vs 5/5 in an element wasn't as game breaking as not having Freeze2 at all. Now, 2/5 Shoa vs 5/5 Shoha----which SAM is gonna be asked?

It's like the guy that held us up in sky for almost an hour once because we didn't have the right skill chain options he wanted. We finally got tired of it, and our party with a BLU ran off to make our own GD chains for people to burst off of and we got our crap done.. Yes....that's right... when I built up enough TP on BLM, even I occasionally opened up Darkness chains and we got busy while one groups sat around complaining about not having the optimal setup. And all it took was me having WSNM's killed to make it happen. Something ANYONE can have in their arsenal, regardless of what is going on in their merits. That's the freedom we are talking about---having the flexibility to get things done the way we want it, not with one specific cookie cutter role we are forced to play in.

THAT is the problem. People want even MORE specific builds that are more merit WS focused, or it's GTFO. These tight restrictions are just further increasing this rigid mentality.

SE either needs to make jobs more relevant without the new merit WS in their arsenal, or make the merit WS more available to more jobs.

[Alhanelem]

Good grief... are you really that dense? No, BLM had it's role for stuns, DOT/Enfeebles, and Magic bursting. Having 2/5 in an element vs 5/5 in an element wasn't as game breaking as not having Freeze2 at all. Now, 2/5 Shoa vs 5/5 Shoha----which SAM is gonna be asked?

Good Grief, are you really that dense? Re balancing can solve these problems. Unlocking all the WS won't solve these problems. You're not even using a very good example because BLM isn't at all dependent on weapon skills whereas they are central to SAM.

Simple balance adjustments could make the difference between merits less drastic. Have the stat mod start higher and increase less or something. (e.g. start at 60% and go up to 100% instead of 20% to 100%) Unlocking every weapon skill isn't going to make your problem of which job you get picked to go on go away. You speak of skillchain options. I can't even remember the last time I saw people planning to do skillchains. It really has no bearing on this issue at all.

[RAIST]

Actually , the BLM reference IS relevant to your argument. YOU made the argument that the merit system was already a major issue with job selection prior to them adding the merit WS system. BLM is an easy way to point out the flaw in that argument. It was more important that Freeze2 be unlocked then it was to have capped potency. Even if it was only 1 merit, it was still useful and accepted. Whereas, 1/5 Shoha is considered pointless unless you are using it as a Skillchain opener--and that is not what people want Shoha for, they want it 5/5 for maximum damage output. Either you have it 5/5 for the frontline, or you need to come on a job with a WS that is 5/5 that they will accept.

Pure and simple. If you aren't spec'ed out on a WS now, they don't want you ON THAT JOB. So, you are left with a limited job selection based in large part by your WS merits. This was NOT the case with the merit system in the past. Now, it has become a determining factor, and like I pointed out earlier, there are some cases where you may have two WS setup for one job--if you can't use that WS on another job, then you may have just reduced your acceptable job options.

If you want to maintain your flexibility, then you have to merit soem or all crossover WS like Startdiver and such. In the end, you may not be able to use a WS on a job you would prefer to go on. Merit WS's with restricted job use, and you may freeze yourself out of invites. This was NOT the case with the past merit system and WS selection--it was either you had the WS unlocked, or you didnt' (which, had nothing to do with merits, but quests which you were free to pursue every single one if you had the job leveled and skilled).

{Edit:}

Unlocking every weapon skill isn't going to make your problem of which job you get picked to go on go away.

Actually, yes it would. If you could go 5/5 on WS for at least the primary (possibly even secondary) weapon for each of your jobs, then that potentially rules that out as a limiting factor. Then we are back to Job features, gear, and stats like it has always been.

[Alhanelem]

Pure and simple. If you aren't spec'ed out on a WS now, they don't want you ON THAT JOB. So, you are left with a limited job selection based in large part by your WS merits. This was NOT the case with the merit system in the past.

Again, this means that the weapon skills are too good, not that the merit system is flawed. This didn't happen with the group 2 merits, which added lots of new spells and abilities. If those went around for this long without threads like this coming up, then the merit point system itself is not at fault for the current situation. The weaponskills themselves are.

It's not like there Aren't any other threads complaining that one or more of the weapon skills are too good.

[Neisan_Quetz]

There's a difference between 'good' 'pretty damn useless' and a thread started by an idiot. Guess what T2 merits, some of the merit WS, and that thread are.

[Alhanelem]

There's a difference between 'good' 'pretty damn useless' and a thread started by an idiot. Guess what T2 merits, some of the merit WS, and that thread are.

There's a difference between making a reasonable statement and dressing up nonsense to look reasonable. Guess what any other post in this thread (except possibly some of mine), and yours are.

Especially since you're basically wrong on all three counts of yours.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Okay, let me correct that by stating some of the T2 merits are pretty damn worthless (Aggressive Aim? Martyr isn't very useful, AM2 is pretty worthless, Bio 3 and Blind 2 could be deleted for how useful they are, Ambush is trash, Guardian is trash, Foe Sirvente and Adventurer's Dirge are both bad, Sange should never see more than 1 merit if that, Convergence and Diffusion past 1 are sad, Altruism Focalization Tranquility and Equanimity aren't very good either). Most of the merit WS are good or have uses. That thread was still started by an idiot.