Increase the number of meritable WS

[FrankReynolds]

sorry, I don't see much difference here. you are essentially saying there should be no limit, so you can have everything- only that it should be "unlocked" over time. No, it should not be that way, because then there is no decision to be made, no customization, and no distrinction between characters as far as who is more into what jobs. The time it takes to merit a WS is trivial, there's no reason not to unlock them all if there is no limit.

I fully support a limit increase. I do not and will not support a limit removal. I've already endorsed the other thread proposing a specific limit increase, over this one just saying "GIMME."

Lol at the "GIMME" thing. That's exactly what this forum is for. Acting like people are spoiled for asking for what they want in a video game is not going to validate your argument.

When I walk through PJ and every single person literally has every single piece of gear and every single generic merit and every single job level maxed out and they have all copied each others macros and gear sets, and the only thing left is for them do decide which WS to merit...
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even then your argument will still be pointless.

It's a video game guy. It has been distributed to millions of people, across the entire globe. You are not a special and unique snow flake. You will never come up with a gear selection, merit selection, macro or technique that has not already been used by 1,000 other people already. Stop with the customization and uniqueness arguments. They will never hold weight.

[Camiie]

sorry, I don't see much difference here. you are essentially saying there should be no limit, so you can have everything- only that it should be "unlocked" over time. No, it should not be that way, because then there is no decision to be made, no customization, and no distrinction between characters as far as who is more into what jobs. The time it takes to merit a WS is trivial, there's no reason not to unlock them all if there is no limit.

There is a distinction between characters. There's race, appearance, the jobs we have leveled, the gear we're willing/able to obtain, and the differences between us as players. I'm not you, you're not me, and neither of us is the guy or girl over there.

There is a reason to not unlock them all if there's no limit. There is a reason not everyone has every job leveled to 99, much less geared and useable. It's called personal taste. I don't need someone to tell me I can't have them all. However, if I was the type to want to level everything, and again I AM NOT, I don't think it's right to penalize people who want to play that way after offering them just the opposite for the vast majority of the game. If the limits were there from level 1 that's fine. You can't close Pandora's Box once it's opened. You can't clamp down on freedom once people have tasted it.

I fully support a limit increase. I do not and will not support a limit removal. I've already endorsed the other thread proposing a specific limit increase, over this one just saying "GIMME."

I'm glad you support the increase, and I'd be willing to accept that as a compromise. I'm not this guy...



...but the art of negotiation isn't completely lost on me.

[Fupafighter]

I look at it this way, what is my 90 masamune sam w.o shoha, what is my drg w.o stardiver, what is my dnc and thf w.o exent? I would love to ger resolution and that spiral move for my drk war pup and mnk, but thats not possible without gimping my other jobs. I know shajin spiral isnt needed because of the verethregna, but I want it for the skillchain reasons for pup lol. If I droped exent, my dnc is horrible, and I'm better off going sam or drg lol, and same with my sam not having shoha or my drg not having stardiver, then my other DD jobs just seem better and more FUN FUN FUN to play. My dark knight is useless to play because I don't have the merits to give it a decent ws.

[Alhanelem]

I don't think it's right to penalize people who want to play that way after offering them just the opposite for the vast majority of the game.

here's the thing. Most other games, 1 character = 1 class. In these games, it's much easier to choose to specialize in one or a few of them- you have to do a ton of quests all over again, so it's a pain in the butt. In FFXI, it's a much eaiser process to play different classes. This means many people have all of them and even the fussiest specialists have at least a few because they got bored enough to try another class. So how do you seperate the people who have truly mastered one or a few jobs from the people that have every job? Other than gear, the only way is to force people to choose which jobs they want to be able to strengthen the most. Gear doesn't really count- Only a small selection of gear in the game that is wanted is especially hard to get, and it's mostly the super weapons. So what it ends up coming down to is do you have a lv90+ relic/mythic/empy for a job or not. Placing some restrictions on the merit system creates at least a small way to spec your character.

I would love to ger resolution and that spiral move for my drk war pup and mnk, but thats not possible without gimping my other jobs.

I would love to get resolution and that spiral move for my drk war pup and mnk, but that's not possible because I want to strengthen my other jobs more.

That's how you should be reading it. You aren't gimping jobs, you're chosing which ones you want to be better. Remember, you didn't have any of these WS at one point.

This reminds me of the rested EXP system in WoW. At first it was a penalty or the absence of a penalty. Then they reworded things, called it a bonus, and suddenly everyone thought it was a bonus or lack of a bonus (They never actually changed the system, they simply changed the "tired" state to "normal" and "normal" to "rested bonus"- the actual numbers behind the system never changed). It's all a matter of perception. I don't see choosing one weapon skill over another as choosing which job to gimp. I see it as choosing which one to make stronger. When I choose to merit STR over INT, I'm choosing to boost my DD jobs, not choosing to gimp my mage jobs. You pick the merits that favor the jobs you want to play most- that's what the merit system is for. If someone asks you "which jobs are you best at?" you should not ever be able to answer "all of them."

HOWEVER... When you consider the typical number of jobs that a person plays, the system may be too confining- that's why i support the limit increase. I would agree it's hard fro many to say just three jobs are your favorites out of 20. 5? Seems reasonable to me.

I think you just enjoy arguing for arguments sake which is probably not a bad thing inspires people to add their ideas into a topic i suppose.

No, i'm not arguing just for argument's sake. I'm arguing this issue because it is an issue I have feelings about it and I would prefer it to be addressed in one way more than the other.

[Nala]

no you've been arguing that we should specialize, which in a game about specialization is fine and dandy this isn't one of those games, just because you can level all jobs means you do, just because you can merit all ws's means you will either, example i've yet to even do the quest to unlock paladin, eventually i will however for now i do not feel like it, similarly with whm, i took it to 50 for subjob purposes and a certain level of self utility, otherwise i do not particularly enjoy the healer role.

Thats 2 mythic ws's that i could unlock should i level the jobs, hell i still haven't done some of the 500 point questable weapon skills. Honestly with capping at 30 merits and having to leave abyssea to actually apply my merits to the weapon skill i'd only be meriting weaponskills i might actually use, for me atm that'd be blade: shun and shinjin spiral, my staff skill is too low to unlock soul shatter (do i have the right name? meh) not that i melee on blm or sch anyways, nor is tp practical due to staff swaping. the rest of the merited ws's i do not have high enough skill or the right jobs to merit/make use of them.

[Alhanelem]

no you've been arguing that we should specialize, which in a game about specialization

What game is "about" specialization? that's not a game I want to play. Specialization is just one component of a game. it's not what any particular game is "about." Speccing is only a minor part of this game, but it's what the merit system is supposed to do. It's not just "EXP at the level cap." If that's what it was, you may as well just continue to have more levels instead of "forcing" us to spend points on things.

If they didn't want any kind of specialization in this game, the merit system would never have been put in the game. even before it came out, we were all likening it to WoW's talent system.

[Fupafighter]

Shut up alhan lol. This is ffxi, not another MMO. Specialization doesn't exist in FFXI, and the specialization that does exist, is made of gimps thinking that they are doing fine while everyone else is going "wtf are you doing". Why would I want to play my drk when my sam does it better because of a ws i merited. It completely makes certain jobs useless to me.

[Alhanelem]

Specialization doesn't exist in FFXI, and the specialization that does exist

"It doesn't exist, but it does." You can fuss over how much speccing is in the game, but the fact is there is some. It's not the main focus of the advancement system as a whole, but that doesn't mean it's not there nor does it mean it shouldn't exist. Next, try expressing your thoughts without being rude.

Why would I want to play my drk when my sam does it better because of a ws i merited.

Because you'd rather play DRK? Am I the only person in this game who chooses their favorite jobs based on which are the most fun to play? If the job is useless to you, then don't play it. No one's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to. I've beaten pretty much everything prior to the existence of voidwatch with some of the most "lol" jobs in the game. Break out of your pigeonhole.

Even when/if I level <insert popular job here>, I'm not changing my merits. Why? Because I'd rather play the other jobs i enjoy. If you really need <popular job> and there's *no way in hell* to do it without it, then I have it if I really need it and I'd be happy to use it- at the same time, if someone else has that job, it would be better if that someone else went that job instead of me. I have my favorite jobs more fully decked out-I'm specialized in them and I can handle them better than the average person, especially one who hasn't specialized in them.

[RAIST]

Break out of your pigeonhole.

That's part of the problem with the merit WS restrictions....with the current state of the game, it FORCES you to pigeonhole jobs.

[Alhanelem]

That's part of the problem with the merit WS restrictions....with the current state of the game, it FORCES you to pigeonhole jobs.

No, it doesn't. Players force eachother to pigeonhole jobs, not the merit system. If everyone had everything merited, it wouldn't matter who did what. Since that's not possible it does matter:

"Need a WAR? My friend over there had it fully merited with the best gear. Need a DRK? My friend over there has it. Need a SCH? Oh that's great, I have that and fully merited it- that's one of my choice jobs! Great, so we have everything we need! You've got SAM merited, and I know someone who decked out WHM."

That wouldn't happen if the merit system wasn't there or it had no limits. The merits distinguish the people who "just have" a particular job from the people more devoted to that job. People are playing the popular jobs because they're popular, not because the merit system forced them to.