Increase the number of meritable WS

[Finuve]

All I play is three jobs (on the one character) and 3 WSs still means I'm screwed

for DRK BST and SAM I need Shoha, Ruinator, Entropy, and Resolution

[Drakhon]

Has anyone ever bothered to look up Alhanelem's character Tahngarthor? With only 5/20 jobs at 99 and the rest under 55 with one still level 1 he clearly is the type of player that only wants to put effort into specific jobs that he plays. So the point of meriting more WS is pointless to him because he can't use them. Specializing is what this guy is all about, period. Even his crafting is focused solely on cooking, probably the one craft where you don't need sub crafts often. he is rank 10 in Bastok and that's it, why? cause that's all he wants. So arguing with him about expanding your character is pointless because he is unable to process it.

Me, on the other hand, my goal is to get everything done as best as possible. I have all jobs at 99 and was working on getting them all to 75 pre-Aby. Why? Not because I intended on playing every job but because it was a goal offered in the game. When I got to 75 on one job I would set it aside and work on the next. When I got to rank 10 in Sandy, I went on to Bastok. When I got 60 on cooking I went onto Smithing and then decided to take Leathercraft to 100 simply because the crafting material mostly came from mobs, so it was cheaper and easier. I have capped Dagger, Hand-Hand and Axe ws because at this moment I mostly play Thf, Mnk (at the time I merited the ws) and BST for Dynamis. Drg was my first job choice but I have Drakesbane and that was good enough for me at the time. I also play Blu a lot but saw no purpose in getting that WS at the time.

Am I the absolute best I can be at each job? Heck no. I love playing blu but still can't grasp the concept of a FC Party. I know its about doing max damage to a group of mobs to kill them with one or two attacks, but is it all about the gear you use or the atma? I still need RR atma and now I wish I had gotten it when Aby first came out instead of leveling my jobs slowly, but oh well. Has not having RR hampered me? A bit yeah, but so has solo playing, and yet I've still got a lot done in the game. I just don't have all the coolest toys, but since I've got a lot of the ingame missions and goals done, guess I don't really need those cool toys to have fun.

I would like to be able to get all 15 WS just because their available. I don't care about specializing I just like to accomplish goals, that's the whole point of this game in my opinion. Check them off the list.

Now, talking about specializing, this game ISN'T designed for people to specialize in one or two jobs. How do I mean? Look at all the past end game stuff and battles. What were the popular jobs back in CoP? ToA? Hell, look at LB10, everyone wanted MNK and PLD and if you didn't have those, you were out of luck. People with other jobs wanted MNK and PLD to do the fight for them while they sat back in safety. Was it so hard to level MNK to do the fight? I remember doing the S.Ascension battle, everyone wanted SMN. I leveled SMN from 20-75 just for that battle and only finally soloed it with 99 SMN cause I was tiered of pts going in half-cocked thinking it was a cake walk. And despite Aby being open to all jobs what were the popular ones for that?

Specializing in a single job is pointless because when ever SE reveals something new that requires a different job, people will only want those jobs and if the player doesn't have it, will raise heck about it because now they have to level a new job. What's going to be the job of choice when Dungeon Crawl comes out? What ever it is you can bet that the specialists will raise heck if they don't have that job leveled.

So I say level everything to 99 so you have the options available and open up all the WS so you have those available when you need them. Putting limitations on things doesn't force players to "specialize" it forces players to STOP. Stop growing, stop experiencing new battles and adventures, stop discovering that maybe they'll enjoy playing a new job because the WS is more fun. If you don't want to get 5 WS because you're afraid you won't be SPECIALized anymore, then don't. Stop at 3. If you want 5 you should have the option of getting it. It doesn't hurt the game after all.

SE puts limits not force players to specialize but because their own imagination is limited. They expanded the limits of the game with Aby and got in crap for that.

[Alhanelem]

All I play is three jobs (on the one character) and 3 WSs still means I'm screwed

for DRK BST and SAM I need Shoha, Ruinator, Entropy, and Resolution

No, you don't need all four of them. The complaint in this thread is that you can't get enough weapon skills to have -one- for each job.

Has anyone ever bothered to look up Alhanelem's character Tahngarthor? With only 5/20 jobs at 99 and the rest under 55 with one still level 1 he clearly is the type of player that only wants to put effort into specific jobs that he plays.

There is absolutely -nothing- wrong with this. It's a personal choice. That doesn't invalidate my opinions. I've been playing this game since soon after it came out. Don't you DARE try to paint me as a noob. I'm not as stupid as you apparently think I look- My opinion isn't purely based on my personal experiences.

Why WOULD I put effort into a job I don't want to play? I don't want to play it, therefore I'm not going to. Part of the fun is finding new and unusual ways of doing things. I've been to virtually every HNM in existence on one or more of those 5 jobs. It takes enough time to fully gear 5 jobs, much less 20, so believe me, it's more than enough to keep me busy. You're nothing but an elitist or a jerk if you look down on people for not having all 20 jobs leveled.

Putting limitations on things doesn't force players to "specialize" it forces players to STOP.

Bullshiat. You're still going to STOP eventually. It might take a little longer. There's still a finish line even without the limits. The difference is when everyone has hit that finish line, with the limits each character is a little different. Without those limits, every character is exactly the same.

[Drakhon]

I never said anything bad about how you play. I simply stated a fact on how you play and that that's how you play so there's no point in trying to explain another way of playing the game to you. As for me being an elitist, that's not much of an argument you're giving to call me that? I never said how I play the game is how it's supposed to be played by everyone, I just did a comparison on how I play it differently. I didn't state that how I play is my opinion on how the game is to be played but I didn't say that other players should be forced to play it that way, which is what you are saying when you state that players should be forced by SE to specialize to only a few jobs.

This thread is about opening up more options to players who do level more jobs. Since you're not interested in playing more jobs then the argument does not affect you because you are happy with what you have. Good for you. You're happy with what you have. Others, however, aren't.

So how does giving other players more options in anyway negatively affect you as a player and your playing experience? And if it doesn't, then where's the problem with having 5/5 WS to merit?

if you're mad at what I said above then I think you're mad at what I pointed out not in the tone of how I said it, which is impossible to tell on here because it is written and not spoken. I can't be held responsible for how you look at life and those around you.

You enjoy living in your one bedroom apartment (little box - limits) while other people want a house (larger box - options) thus giving them the freedom to move and grow. There's nothing wrong with your little box, maybe you have it decorated the way you like it, I don't know. I don't care. In comparison people living in a big house might have empty rooms that need filling and they want the nice furniture and electronics to fill it. Should they be denied those accessories simply because you don't want them? And when that house is full and the players are able to afford a bigger house with more room shouldn't they be given the option of upgrading? I'm not being derogatory or being an "elitist" as you called me before. I am stating a fact using an apt image. Want another one? Some of these players are still in high school, some have graduated and some have gone on to College or University. Should everyone be limited to just high school? Read what you want in that and feel free to howl and rage at an uncaring world.

[Spiritreaver]

Are you purposely coming back here just so you validate your accusations of me being a troll? If my presence here is bothering you this much, why haven't you blocked me yet?

Until this sentence, i never once called you a troll. As to validating that sentiment however, you're doing a wonderful job of that all on your own. And again if you had bothered to read my post(i know actually reading on a text based internet forum....), your question was answered.

All i did was ask you a question that you've neglected to answer three times so far. Hmm...

No, you don't need all four of them. The complaint in this thread is that you can't get enough weapon skills to have -one- for each job.

There is absolutely -nothing- wrong with this. It's a personal choice. That doesn't invalidate my opinions. I've been playing this game since soon after it came out. Don't you DARE try to paint me as a noob. I'm not as stupid as you apparently think I look- My opinion isn't purely based on my personal experiences.

Why WOULD I put effort into a job I don't want to play? I don't want to play it, therefore I'm not going to. Part of the fun is finding new and unusual ways of doing things. I've been to virtually every HNM in existence on one or more of those 5 jobs. It takes enough time to fully gear 5 jobs, much less 20, so believe me, it's more than enough to keep me busy. You're nothing but an elitist or a jerk if you look down on people for not having all 20 jobs leveled.

Bullshiat. You're still going to STOP eventually. It might take a little longer. There's still a finish line even without the limits. The difference is when everyone has hit that finish line, with the limits each character is a little different. Without those limits, every character is exactly the same.

Classy. The way you play is fine, but someone else who goes the opposite route is a jerk? Very classy indeed.

@the bold-Though its just been rightly said you fail to grasp the core issue, do you not see how obtuse this statement makes you seem? Sorry that is another of those pesky direct questions you hate i know. But going by that line of reasoning, there is really no point in doing ANYTHING ingame is there?

Which i guess answers my initial question as to why you are pissing about in this thread ad nauseam in a round-about way, doesn't it?


@Finuve and Drakhon-Good points all around.

[Alhanelem]

All i did was ask you a question that you've neglected to answer three times so far. Hmm...

Why am I posting? I've already answered that question. I'm posting because I have an opinion on a topic. Hmm....

Why is anyone posting? Because they have something to say. Isn't it obvious? Why should I answer a question like that, which you should already know the answer to?

Classy. The way you play is fine, but someone else who goes the opposite route is a jerk? Very classy indeed.

It is classy, isn't it? The way you bait me back with retorts and insults of your own... sounds a lot like... a troll. "Why are you still posting?" is a troll question. It is a question with no content yet allows you to force a response out of others- the very definition of trolling. Since you don't seem to have anything worthwhile to contribute, I'll just ignore you from here on out. As was said earlier, if you ignore a troll, they'll disappear. If you really wanted someone to stop posting, you'd stop asking them questions.

then where's the problem with having 5/5 WS to merit?

I already said about 20 times in this thread that I'm already cool with a limit increase. I am affected by the limit as you are and I think it can be increased to a level that still retians a decision making aspect while not constraining the player to only improving 2-3 jobs out of 20.

[Anapingofness]

Why WOULD I put effort into a job I don't want to play? I don't want to play it, therefore I'm not going to.

Your statement validates my point as well as the points of many other people on this thread.
Why would you play a job you don't want to? On that note, why would you merit a WS you don't want to? The answer is, you wouldn't and you won't. That's my point.

Uncapping all of the merit weapon skills will not change anything. People will choose which jobs they want to level and people will choose which weapon skills they want to merit.

[Alhanelem]

Your statement validates my point as well as the points of many other people on this thread.

that statement doesn't validate anything.

1 WS != one job. WS are tied to weapons, and you can use different weapons on each job. I can still learn more WS and be affected by a point limit with even just 2 jobs.

Uncapping all of the merit weapon skills will not change anything. People will choose which jobs they want to level and people will choose which weapon skills they want to merit.

It does change something. It removes the cieling on how much better a player with all jobs can be than one that doesn't have them, and effectively forces other people to level more jobs to be able to compete. In other words, it increases the level of obligation a player will feel to level more jobs even if they don't enjoy them. It's bad enough the way it is now, it doesn't need to be made worse by uncapping merits. Making a limit that was set too low brought to a more reasonable number I can get behind. I cannot get behind lifting the limit entirely. Seems like I'll be saying this til I'm blue in the face. Maybe its time you gave up on trying to change my views. Similarly, i ought to take my own advice. An "agree to disagree" is in order here?

[Asymptotic]

5 capped weapon skills would be reasonable and sufficient.

[RAIST]

I Strongly disagree, because you don't need all 14 weapon skills to have one that's useable on every job. The system is supposed to be restrictive. I've already agreed that it is TOO restrictive, so why are you still picking me apart?

This and additional statements just further prove how little grasp you have with what the problem is.

It is not about unlocking every WS for every job. It is about unlocking the primary, and EXPECTED WS for each job THAT YOU PREFER TO PLAY. Lets look at your list, and what merit WS are available to them:

PUP - Shijin spiral
DNC - Extenterator
DRK - Requiescat, Resolution, Ruinator, Upheaval, Entropy
SCH/SMN - Realmrazor, Shattersoul

At most, you could unlock 9 WS, but are you REALLY going to use all 9?

NO.

What are people going to WANT YOU TO USE ON THAT JOB. What WS are they going to want you to use if you are invited to an event, and what is going to cause them to not want you on that job if you don't have it, or someone has it meritted higher?

Well, DNC and PUP are obvious, and SCH/SMN are going to have far more important roles assigned than trying to spam a club or staff WS out side of the off chance you may need the utility of the WS (reduce magic defense, or opening a chain, in which case the damage output of the WS is not that important). So that essentially assigns 2 WS needed 5/5 for two jobs, and takes two jobs out of your list as needing to have them 5/5 for an event. Sure, you may still want them for farting around with friends, solo play, farming, etc., but we are talking about serious events where people try to get the optimum jobs and builds in the group. That leaves DRK. DRK has a long list of weapons it CAN use, but only a few that it routinely uses, so naturally you would only spend the time/merits on the most important ones, right?

Lets look at DRK's top ranked Weapons to narrow down the possibilities, shall we?

Scythe (A+), GS (A-), and GA, Axe, and Sword are B-. Now, in all seriousness, which ones are you going to meritt for a third WS? You don't have any other job that has an unlocked WS that is in demand, it is only DRK. So....you pick the one most sought after for DRK, and you are good to go in the bulk of situations.

Now, if you get to do 5 WS to 5/5, then you have more flexibility. DNC and PUP have no more WS to unlock, your only options are DRK, SCH, SMN. You already have the PRIMARY WS SOUGHT AFTER UNLOCKED FOR THE 3 JOBS THAT YOU WOULD BE TYPICALLY WS'ING WITH IN EVENTS. So, the extra 10 points would be gravy for you to play with.

So, in short, at 15 merits as it is now, you already have the option of going 5/5 on the IMPORTANT ws for the 3 jobs where it matters, or you could go 4/5 on one or more them and use the extra points for unlocking other WS to play with on DRK, SCH, and/or SMN. But most importantly, you can ALREADY unlock and rasie to a decent level what the playerbase has declared to be required/expected of you if you are on one of your preferred jobs----THEREFORE, you really don't have a dog in this fight outside the realm of wanting some extra flexibility for sidegrade WS use.

Now, compare and contrast that to someone that doesn't prefer to play a mage class. We're talking jobs like WAR, SAM, NIN, MNK, and possibly another meleeing job besides DRG/PUP (as H2H and PA would crossover on them, respectively) Or even including DRG or PUP and a 6th job as well. There is NO WAY you can cover the EXPECTED/REQUIRED WS (as declared by the playerbase) on EACH of these jobs with just 15 points--3 can be eaten up by just TWO jobs. You might not even be able to do it with 25 points to spend. 25 would cover those first 4 jobs--to cover more jobs, they would have to be crossovers like PUP and DRG. If your 5th or 6th job is DRK, or something needing dagger or sword, you're out of luck.

At a MINIMUM it should be 30 points to cover the current state of the playerbase, and even then it may not cut it if people keep spec'ing out more jobs.

Again, the issue is NOT unlocking every WS for every job---it is about having the ability to unlock and spec out the WS you are expected to have to play the jobs you prefer to play in important events. If someone has the WS on your preferred job and it is at a higher level, you may very well be getting the boot. THAT is what is at issue here, meeting the demands of the playerbase to avoid being left on the sidelines so you can actually progress through the game's content.