Increase the number of meritable WS

[Neisan_Quetz]

And why does it matter if someone is capable of using more than 3-4 jobs now?

[RAIST]

No, it doesn't. Players force eachother to pigeonhole jobs, not the merit system. If everyone had everything merited, it wouldn't matter who did what. Since that's not possible it does matter:

"Need a WAR? My friend over there had it fully merited with the best gear. Need a DRK? My friend over there has it. Need a SCH? Oh that's great, I have that and fully merited it- that's one of my choice jobs! Great, so we have everything we need! You've got SAM merited, and I know someone who decked out WHM."

That wouldn't happen if the merit system wasn't there or it had no limits. The merits distinguish the people who "just have" a particular job from the people more devoted to that job. People are playing the popular jobs because they're popular, not because the merit system forced them to.

You may not realize it, but I think you actually just supported my last post. Again, as I stated before:

with the current state of the game, it FORCES you to pigeonhole jobs

Bolded for emphasis. The current state of the game (as in how everyone chooses to play) makes certain jobs and setups more attractive. To get in on the action, you may HAVE to choose from ONLY the popular jobs---not necessarily the jobs you prefer to play, but what others want you to play. Come as this job, with this setup, or sorry....we don't want X Y Z, we want A B C.

So with the current restrictions, you may very well be forced to nerf your favorite job's WS selection so that you can get into content on a less preferred job in order to have a shot at getting the items/events done for your preferred job. To add insult to injury, this same state of the game may well dictate that you not only have job A, B, or C available...but also have specific Gear and/or WS available, or it's again GTFO as well.

Soo....I'll restate it again:

with the current state of the game, these WS restrictions may in fact be forcing people to pigeonhole jobs.

[Nala]

What game is "about" specialization? that's not a game I want to play. Specialization is just one component of a game. it's not what any particular game is "about." Speccing is only a minor part of this game, but it's what the merit system is supposed to do. It's not just "EXP at the level cap." If that's what it was, you may as well just continue to have more levels instead of "forcing" us to spend points on things.

If they didn't want any kind of specialization in this game, the merit system would never have been put in the game. even before it came out, we were all likening it to WoW's talent system.

/sigh it wasn't about specialization, it was about increasing your power without leveling, a solution from when they originally said they would never increase the cap past 75.

oh and you can hit F100 nyzul without 2xSCH (among other things) right? i wont completely deny that you have choices but some choices in light of a particular goal are impractical VS the optimal cookie cutter.

No, it doesn't. Players force eachother to pigeonhole jobs, not the merit system. If everyone had everything merited, it wouldn't matter who did what.

so we could bring an alliance of 18xDRK since every one could buff heal and tank NP since they had everything merited right? /sacrasm

[Meyi]

Disagree, and not liked. You should have to specialize, that's what merits were originally about.

You can already merit them all if you don't mind them not being as good.

According to my linkshell, you have to have all AM2 on BLM to proc in Voidwatch. So much for "specialization"...

I see nothing wrong with wanting to merit whatever a person wants to merit. If they want it all, and want to spend the time getting it, they should be allowed to.

[Camiie]

According to my linkshell, you have to have all AM2 on BLM to proc in Voidwatch. So much for "specialization"...

Yep! Specialization flies out the window as soon as the efficiency police get their cuffs on you. We all end up meriting the same stuff anyway with few exceptions. It doesn't help that some of the "choices" are downright laughable. Aggressive Aim? Really? Yeah, I'm totally going to specialize in that!

I see nothing wrong with wanting to merit whatever a person wants to merit. If they want it all, and want to spend the time getting it, they should be allowed to.

Agreed. I'd rather have total freedom than be forced into decisions just so someone else can feel like a special snowflake.

[Fupafighter]

Thats the whole point. I enjoy MORE than 3 jobs. I would love to play dark with some SKILL, but that involves RESOLUTION, which I DONT have room to MERIT. I'm sure alot of people would agree favoring 3 jobs out of 20 is just silly. Done talking to you, you're annoiying. Next thing you're going to do is make an argument to counter this and keep going, because that's what you do.

[Alhanelem]

To get in on the action, you may HAVE to choose from ONLY the popular jobs

I conciously avoid whatever is currently being bandwagoned. I got through virtually every event in the game just fine. You do not HAVE to choose from ONLY the popular jobs.

According to my linkshell, you have to have all AM2 on BLM to proc in Voidwatch. So much for "specialization"...

Last I heard, they were planning to cut out merit abilities from the proc system. But even when you get them all, you have points left over, so you have to choose which one(s) you would like to favor using when possible.

I see nothing wrong with wanting to merit whatever a person wants to merit. If they want it all, and want to spend the time getting it, they should be allowed to.

I see plenty wrong with it unless the time required to do so is high enough that it's not realistically possible to get it all. Why do people hate the idea of making decisions so much?

Agreed. I'd rather have total freedom

If you want total freedom, go play Minecraft or something. FFXI is a highly structured game, has been a highly structured game, and will continue to be a highly structured game. FFXI is not a sandbox, you do not get total freedom.

*sigh* Current score:
FREEDOM! NO LIMITS! GIMME EVERYTHING!: 394267832465
I want to make decisions about my character!: 1

In FF Tactics, why do I only get to set one other job's action abiltiies? I want to set them all!
In WoW, why can't I pick all of the talents on all the talent trees? I want them all!
Who doesn't want everything? The "gimme" mentality around here is disturbing.

It doesn't really matter, as nearly everyone with a thought on this subject is united against me. I've said my peice, you disagree with it, time to leave it at that. It's not like SE is going to radically change the system because people want everything anyway. The system has been the current way for years. I do not see it substantially changing, other than limits increased, as has been done on a few occasions in the past.

[Sparthos]

Like I said before I'd have no issue with the current merit system if the new WS weren't head and shoulders above what you naturally gain through skillup. If you do not have the Empyrean WS or the merit WS on some weapon types you are at a huge disadvantage.

A Shoha SAM is significantly better than a SAM that still has to rely on Tachi: Gekko.
A BST with Ruinator has a significant advantage over a BST still using Rampage.
A Resolution DRK is going to blow a DRK using Spinning Slash out of the water.

In a game where minor gains are everything, these are huge improvements of a caliber that FFXI rarely achieves.

If you were actually running a real argument for a middle ground position of balance you'd bring up improving some weaponskills that are laughably bad and quite recent like Bora Axe, Cloudsplitter, Blade: Shun, Tachi: Ageha or even the retweaking weaponskills that are old like Ground Strike, Steel Cyclone or Blade: Ku.

[Nala]

Giving access to all weapon skills is not the same as being able to spec every ability in every ability tree of wow, FFT's skill setting is much akin to subjobing your analogy fails.

Further more up until now save for certain class restrictions for select weapon skills you could learn any weapon skill or quest any weapon skill, you speak of the game's structure well this goes against that very structure that has prevailed since the start of the game, you also speak of not being forced to merit certain skills but if you play rng sam and drk primarily but use say pup mnk every now and then because you enjoy them well SoL you merit what's best for your best jobs, not for fun, not for balance, not for being a snowflake either, or in your case just a flake =.=

[RAIST]

A Shoha SAM is significantly better than a SAM that still has to rely on Tachi: Gekko.
A BST with Ruinator has a significant advantage over a BST still using Rampage.
A Resolution DRK is going to blow a DRK using Spinning Slash out of the water.

In a game where minor gains are everything, these are huge improvements of a caliber that FFXI rarely achieves.

If you were actually running a real argument for a middle ground position of balance you'd bring up improving some weaponskills that are laughably bad and quite recent like Bora Axe, Cloudsplitter, Blade: Shun, Tachi: Ageha or even the retweaking weaponskills that are old like Ground Strike, Steel Cyclone or Blade: Ku.

Think this post is a good way to pull it all together as to why people are so at odds with the merit WS system as it is currently implemented.

I have all three of those jobs at 99, as well as 4 other DD's. I often use 4 of them specifically for events (Mostly WAR, NIN, MNK, SAM). I can only merit 3 WS--so only 3 of those jobs can be at their best, leaving the 4th in the dust. Then, there are two other jobs I like to play personally on the side (DRK, DRG), and on occasion use them in events--and I can't take them any further now than I could before.

In short, I can only advance 3 out of 6 jobs I routinely use on the DD front. Why can't I do all 6? If I merit fully for SAM (PA and GK, that leaves me only one more to work with). Prior to this I could potentially do ALL TEN OF MY JOBS TO MAXIMUM POTENTIAL (barring having to strike a balance on the stats b/c 3 of them are mages and not enough points for all skill tweaks for weapons). Yes, we had some limitations in the merit system, but it was nothing like this--it was more along the lines of are we going to focus on Mage or Melee jobs with our more general merits.

In the past, aside from having to pick and choose things like H2H meritts and such, we were all potentially on equal footing otherwise, and the only reason to pick and choose jobs was because of job specific characteristics. Now those decisions wind up eventually getting weighted towards WS options after the mandatory slots (healing, nuking, support) are filled. "If you don't have the Empy and/or merit WS options available, sorry....we don't want you on the front line."

All we are really asking for is for them to be more consistent with how it was done in the past--we're talking over 7 YEARS of freedom, and now they clamp down on everyone like this.